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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 07:12 AM   #21
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by maggieddd
I have an update ...Ahh, what should I do if they agree to pay more?
Had to smile when I read your update. I think you have to have a chat with yourself.

While your ambivalence is understandable, you did negotiate in good faith, right? And you did state your expectations quite explicitly, right? So if they meet your self-inflicted terms and you don't take the job, you will really be tap dancing to maintain your integrity.

Feels to me like what's really knotting you up is change itself. Personally I feel strongly about good faith in negotiating. You can be tough, you can win or you can lose. But if the other party steps up to the plate and meets all of your terms, and you then back out, I would have a hard time negotiating with you in the future -- I'd never know when you will be good to your word. Just my view.

OTOH, it's your life and you have to be comfortable with the job. Change is hard, but can be valuable, too. Good luck.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 07:35 AM   #22
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
Had to smile when I read your update. I think you have to have a chat with yourself.

While your ambivalence is understandable, you did negotiate in good faith, right? And you did state your expectations quite explicitly, right? So if they meet your self-inflicted terms and you don't take the job, you will really be tap dancing to maintain your integrity.

Feels to me like what's really knotting you up is change itself. Personally I feel strongly about good faith in negotiating. You can be tough, you can win or you can lose. But if the other party steps up to the plate and meets all of your terms, and you then back out, I would have a hard time negotiating with you in the future -- I'd never know when you will be good to your word. Just my view.

OTOH, it's your life and you have to be comfortable with the job. Change is hard, but can be valuable, too. Good luck.
Yes, I know it's me.*
The thing is, I was told yesterday that there is no free parking or I could park for $8.00/day or of course bike or take the T.* If I did drive that's additional $1,900 a day.* Quite a lot.* If I take the T will be less but still there is a cost to it.* I was not figuring that out in my initial calculations.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 09:04 AM   #23
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by maggieddd
Ahh, what should I do if they agree to pay more?
Chances are they won't initially offer you all you asked for. And if you say "no" to their offer of compromise, be prepared for them to say, "OK, we will give you what you want."

Then you will really understand the wisdom of the old adage, "Be careful what you ask for..."

Good luck on your decision.

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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 09:09 AM   #24
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Chances are they won't initially offer you all you asked for. And if you say "no" to their offer of compromise, be prepared for them to say, "OK, we will give you what you want."
It's getting awkward here: she already made her counter offer and they accepted as I understand it. Now she has to say that her own terms are still not acceptable and she wants more. Not looking real slick from the prospective employers perspective if she chooses to do that .

Or do I misunderstand?

As the world turns...
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 09:20 AM   #25
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by Cute n Fuzzy Bunnay
One interesting thing I noted from hiring a few hundred people. Women either took the first offer or rejected it. Guys always asked for more pay and/or bonus. We usually kicked up the offer by 10-20%. I always wondered if that didnt have something to do with the pay gap between men and women.

The usual HR routine is to gauge the marketplace and what current employees at similar jobs are making and offer some average middling figure. Its almost always flexible, at least a little bit.
Funny, my brother in law did a lot of hiring for one of the major investment banks. He said basically the same thing. One thing he added was the 95% of applicants left money on the table. They were so happy to be hired that even if they asked for more, they would agree to 5-10% more than first offer when they really could go up 20-30% on base salary.

Sounds like another topic they should be teaching those guys paying $75K+ for their MBAs

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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 09:33 AM   #26
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
It's getting awkward here: she already made her counter offer and they accepted as I understand it. Now she has to say that her own terms are still not acceptable and she wants more. Not looking real slick from the prospective employers perspective if she chooses to do that .

Or do I misunderstand?

As the world turns...
no, they haven't responded to my counter offer yet, I am about to find out if they are going to agree to it today, I just need to call them
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 09:45 AM   #27
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Re: Job decision

maggie, go ahead and call them. There is nothing binding you to agree to anything. If you get cold feet and choose to walk away, so be it. You won't be doing irreparable harm to yourself or anyone else.

So call them and see what they say. Assuming they make a counter-offer, ask for a day or two to think about it, no matter what.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 09:48 AM   #28
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
It's getting awkward here: she already made her counter offer and they accepted as I understand it...

Or do I misunderstand?

As the world turns...
Rich, my interpretation was maggie was to call them to discuss their counter offer. If they've already met her request, then only the last part of my comment (careful what you ask for) applies. I agree that if they meet her request and she says no or asks for more, she may burn a bridge with that employer. That's not to say maggie should take the job unless she feels confident that's what she needs to do.

The most successful job offer negotiations I participated in involved the applicant profesionally and diplomatically asking for more than I was willing to offer (and more than they were willing to accept). This resulted in a compromise where both parties felt as if they had won something.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 09:59 AM   #29
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Rich, my interpretation was maggie was to call them to discuss their counter offer. If they've already met her request, then only the last part of my comment (careful what you ask for) applies. I agree that if they meet her request and she says no or asks for more, she may burn a bridge with that employer. That's not to say maggie should take the job unless she feels confident that's what she needs to do.
OK - I misunderstood. As noted, she hasn't heard yet whether they agreed to her terms.

And we all agree, if she is not comfortable with the job she shouldn't take it, even if it means walking away with a little egg on her face. Consider it a learning experience, and all that.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 10:06 AM   #30
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Re: Job decision

I'm presuming by mentioning the "T" that this is boston you're commuting into? I both drove and took the Amtrak/T in from the natick/framingham area. Parking is really expensive in boston but you can get monthly parking at some lots at a decent enough price. Some companies will comp you for it because they know its expensive and its tough to get people to take a job in town.

Riding the train in makes for a longer day, but I found it far less stressful than driving and it gave me a lot of time to read. In todays world with laptop computers and wireless internet connections, I could have gotten a lot done in that time period.

My advice would be to call them; you're already behind the 8 ball by not returning their call when you agreed.

If they've rescinded the offer, either because they're unwilling to pay more or because you didnt call when you said you would, then its all over.

If they've upped the offer, and your only serious concerns are financial, then raise the parking problem. I did with my old employer when they hired me and they gave me a company paid for parking card for heated underground parking right in front of faneuil hall...let me tell ya that got a lot of use outside of the work days.

Another company allowed me to expense any parking in town even though my office was there, up to $25 per day.

Just dont make up some lame excuse for why you didnt call, be honest and tell them that its a hard decision to make and you wanted to get your head straight before you got in a position where you had to commit. Then honestly tell them that you just dont feel like its a good fit or the right time to make a change and thank them for their time.

I was involved with a number of hiring situations where some waffling and negotiations took place and the hire didnt happen, and there were no hard feelings.

But I was involved with one situation about 16 years ago where the guy made excuses, didnt call back, asked for more money and then when we upped to what he wanted said it wasnt enough and he wanted more, then we upped again and he said he really didnt want the job. He wasted a lot of my time and my other good candidate took another job in the interrim.

I still remember that guys name. Very unfavorably.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 10:10 AM   #31
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Re: Job decision

I called, but she wasn't there, I will keep trying.

I agree that if they do accept my offer I should take the job, but this was my first experience with looking, going for interviews, accepting/rejecting jobs. *I will consider this as a learning experience and I will know how to deal with things better next time.

after all, I have nothing to loose and I don't think I will ever apply at the same place again *
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-28-2006, 10:15 AM   #32
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by Cute n Fuzzy Bunnay
I'm presuming by mentioning the "T" that this is boston you're commuting into?* I both drove and took the Amtrak/T in from the natick/framingham area.* Parking is really expensive in boston but you can get monthly parking at some lots at a decent enough price.* Some companies will comp you for it because they know its expensive and its tough to get people to take a job in town.

Riding the train in makes for a longer day, but I found it far less stressful than driving and it gave me a lot of time to read.* In todays world with laptop computers and wireless internet connections, I could have gotten a lot done in that time period.

My advice would be to call them; you're already behind the 8 ball by not returning their call when you agreed.

If they've rescinded the offer, either because they're unwilling to pay more or because you didnt call when you said you would, then its all over.

If they've upped the offer, and your only serious concerns are financial, then raise the parking problem.* I did with my old employer when they hired me and they gave me a company paid for parking card for heated underground parking right in front of faneuil hall...let me tell ya that got a lot of use outside of the work days.

Another company allowed me to expense any parking in town even though my office was there, up to $25 per day.

Just dont make up some lame excuse for why you didnt call, be honest and tell them that its a hard decision to make and you wanted to get your head straight before you got in a position where you had to commit.* Then honestly tell them that you just dont feel like its a good fit or the right time to make a change and thank them for their time.

I was involved with a number of hiring situations where some waffling and negotiations took place and the hire didnt happen, and there were no hard feelings.

But I was involved with one situation about 16 years ago where the guy made excuses, didnt call back, asked for more money and then when we upped to what he wanted said it wasnt enough and he wanted more, then we upped again and he said he really didnt want the job.* He wasted a lot of my time and my other good candidate took another job in the interrim.

I still remember that guys name.* Very unfavorably.
They just emailed me to call them yesterday at noon.* I was busy at work and couldn't call them right away.* I tried the first thing in the morning.* I tried later and the woman wasn't there.* I emailed her asking her if she was in and that I've been trying to get in touch with her and to let me know when was the best time to call.* I also told her that I was busy at work yesterday and I couldn't call.
I don't think the fact that I didn't call her back right away is a big deal, I mean after all I am still working and can't just call any time.* I think that's understandable.* I didn't wait 3-day to call them back.

Ohh, yes it is Boston and I live in Boston, like I said I could probably bike
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-29-2006, 11:29 AM   #33
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Re: Job decision

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I am leaning towards staying in my current job the only thing I am worried about is that I am not learning any more skills which might be bad if I was ever to look for another job.
I'm in the software engineering field (well, you mentioned computers, so I'm assuming?), and I don't think that a job can really determine what skills you learn. Though I have to admit, again we hit a sex related difference. The guys I've known tend to learn skills on their own. They'll play around with different technologies, make new tools for work, etc. The women tend to do what the company needs, but not usually branching out beyond what the company currently uses.

So I'd suggest that you take control over your own learning if that is an issue. Again, I'm making assumptions that you're a software engineer, maybe even web related? (My area). Even if your company is using C# for instance, you can always install Tomcat on some machine and learn Java. There are plenty of ways to learn new technologies, since the majority of the important ones (in my opinion) are free. I know around half of the important internal tools in our company were made by people who had some free time, and thought they'd write something in order to learn something new.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-29-2006, 11:32 AM   #34
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by maggieddd
Well, I got nervous and I didn't call them yesterday. I know I have to call them today. I am nervous because I am afraid that they would agree to my terms but I am so sure that I don't want to take the job any more. I only asked for $5,000 more.
Ahh, what should I do if they agree to pay more?
Well, my wife has two of the same problems that I think you may have.

1. Women in general seem to be more attached to their current locations than men are. They seem to dislike change for whatever reason, and are afraid of leaving their comfort zones. My guess would be because women are more social, and enjoy knowing the people around them? I don't know why, I just know of 3 women in technology, and all of them feel the same way (reluctant to leave a job)

2. Don't worry about what they think if you decide not to take the job. I also think this is a women thing, as women tend to be more empathetic, and worry about what others will think. They can give you $10,000 more, and all you need to say is "I've decided not to take this position". Make up your mind before you talk to them, and make sure to consider all of the possible outcomes first. Think about what if they offer no increase, offer a bonus, offer more than $5000 extra, etc. Decide what your reaction will be, which may even include "I will need to think about this, I will give you a call tomorrow".

Good luck in either case
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-29-2006, 11:39 AM   #35
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Re: Job decision

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Well, my wife has two of the same problems that I think you may have.

1. Women in general seem to be more attached to their current locations than men are.* They seem to dislike change for whatever reason, and are afraid of leaving their comfort zones.* My guess would be because women are more social, and enjoy knowing the people around them?* I don't know why, I just know of 3 women in technology, and all of them feel the same way (reluctant to leave a job)

2. Don't worry about what they think if you decide not to take the job.* I also think this is a women thing, as women tend to be more empathetic, and worry about what others will think.* They can give you $10,000 more, and all you need to say is "I've decided not to take this position".* Make up your mind before you talk to them, and make sure to consider all of the possible outcomes first.* Think about what if they offer no increase, offer a bonus, offer more than $5000 extra, etc.* Decide what your reaction will be, which may even include "I will need to think about this, I will give you a call tomorrow".

Good luck in either case
Thank you!

Well, I just hung up with them and they agreed to the $5,000 increase and they also let me take 4 weeks off in October as I would have taken it off at my current job. I did tell them that I had to run it by my husband tonight and that I would talk to them tomorrow.
Last night I went to take the subway to see how long it would take for me to get there and it took 35min. So only 25min less each way than my current job.
So, I am still thinking.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-29-2006, 03:32 PM   #36
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Re: Job decision

To me, the 70 minutes commute on the T could be used for reading everyday and that's priceless to me! Then again, I work in education, and there's not much room for negotiation.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-29-2006, 03:38 PM   #37
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by maggieddd
Last night I went to take the subway to see how long it would take for me to get there and it took 35min. So only 25min less each way than my current job.
"Only" 25 minutes each way? That's a lot of commuting time in my book, and on the train it could even be productive or relaxing.

Sounds like you really wanna stay in that first job, Maggie. Go with your gut.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-30-2006, 05:04 AM   #38
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Re: Job decision

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To me, the 70* minutes commute on the T could be used for reading everyday and that's priceless to me! Then again, I work in education, and there's not much room for negotiation.
except that you don't just sit on the T for the whole 35 min. You walk to the station for 7min, then you wait at the station for the T then you are riding the T for the next 8min then you get off, change the lines then you ride the T again for a few minutes, then you get off and walk to the office. Can't really sit and read peacefully for the whole 35min.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-30-2006, 06:30 AM   #39
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Re: Job decision

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except that you don't just sit on the T for the whole 35 min.* You walk to the station for 7min, then you wait at the station for the T then you are riding the T for the next 8min then you get off, change the lines then you ride the T again for a few minutes, then you get off and walk to the office.* Can't really sit and read peacefully for the whole 35min.*
One word: ipod.
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Re: Job decision
Old 06-30-2006, 10:27 AM   #40
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Re: Job decision

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Originally Posted by maggieddd
except that you don't just sit on the T for the whole 35 min. You walk to the station for 7min, then you wait at the station for the T then you are riding the T for the next 8min then you get off, change the lines then you ride the T again for a few minutes, then you get off and walk to the office. Can't really sit and read peacefully for the whole 35min.
Ah, gotcha. We country folk don't have trains.
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