Job Satisfaction or Large Salary?

[antmary]

I have worked for a large corp, and I hated it. Everyone around me was stressed out. I never had time for my family - or, even to get the rest etc. I needed.

A friend suggested that I make a priority list, and put myself at the top. Sanity came first.

Since then, I have followed my heart; I feel at peace, and connected to my family. And, yes, saved enough for retirement on top of everything else!

 

[walkinwood]

Brewer and Walkingwood:

that's a pretty cynical thought..that you will be miserable no matter what, so you may as well go for the money.

I am not so sure that I agree.

No at all what I meant.
I meant that even the best jobs have BS that you have to put up with. I prefer to think that's the portion that gets me paid. The enjoyable parts I do for free.

 

[ATC KH]

Sorry if there was any confusion, I'll go ahead and clarify. Both of the pay scales I have given you are estimates. For ATC, yes it is an assumption of getting a level 11 facility in Detroit. I am well aware that if there aren't any openings I will have to try elsewhere, although I wouldn't mind Cleveland either. I'd also like to move into a supervisory position if that opportunity ever presents itself.

For those asking how I can get a executive job out of ATC, it is for two reasons. The first is I will have my MBA, the second is that I will have about 5 years of experience as a military officer. I've been doing a lot of research of military officer's with an MBA starting salary v. the average MBA and it is significantly higher, in the mid 100's to low 200's including bonus depending on the position and company (source below).

The point of this thread is to more ask the question of whether you would take a position with relatively high earnings but a capped salary that you liked more or one with an even higher starting salary and "unlimited" earnings potential in the future that may have longer hours and may not bring quite as much job satisfaction.

Hope this clarifies the issue! Thanks!

Source:
CBS MIBA: Admissions

I suppose my advice to you would be to wait until you at least have a tentative offer for a facility from the FAA. You may very well get DTW or ZOB or CLE, but I would caution you not to make too many assumptions early on. If you do go to a level 11 or 12 facility, you will likely see $125k+ as a CPC by the time you are done with training. Also, the source which you hyperlinked seems to be arguing the value of a top MBA more than anything else. In my opinion, the "article" reads more like a sales pitch than something I would use to base my potential future earnings on.

But, back to the question you asked. I would take the pay, benefits and relative security of a GS-2152 job at an 11 or 12 over the private sector, particularly since you say you have a passion for ATC. Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

[ziggy29]

I always put my family (wife/son) before my own desires. That meant that I always did what I needed to do to maximize income. Most often, I disliked the job, but had other responsibilities IMHO.

If I was single and had nobody to worry about but myself, I would think that I would have looked at the job in a different manner and had gone in a different direction.

However, pursuing the salary rather than the satisfaction of the job also put me in a position that I was able to retire much earlier than those I worked with.

+1, but without the kid.

 

[jIMOh]

40k per year is not enough to make me be unhappy.

Meaning 160k per year vs 200k per year, that 40k difference isn't going to buy much more (28% of that or 25% of that will go to feds anyway).

The "unlimited earning potential" needs to be renamed... only thing potential does is get pro coaches fired... so only thing earning potential will do is leave you thinking grass is greener somewhere else.

If you crave capitalism, start your own business on the side, and see if you can earn the 40k difference.

 

[Bimmerbill]

I'd factor in the Air National guard or AF Reserve. Good $, and a COLA retirement. If you have lots of active duty time, it really helps your pension. I have 0 active duty time, and my pension will be around $650 a month starting at age 60. I made about $15K a year in the Army Guard.

I'd lean toward the gov't job. But I like guaranteed pensions. I also like the 40 hour work week and good bennies. And job security. ATC get to retire early too, which is something else I like, and hope to eventually try out!

So, ATC job and AF Reserve/Guard would be my gig. Tho it may be hard to do both if you are required to work weekends as an ATC.

 

[utrecht]

If you choose the high paying corporate world and sometime in the future you get laid off and / or get your benefits / 401k match / pension slashed....please dont come back here and complain that you shouldve taken the government job.

 

[Brat]

Brewer and Walkingwood:

that's a pretty cynical thought..that you will be miserable no matter what, so you may as well go for the money.

I am not so sure that I agree.

In the 60s, as I was surveying the jobs that I was being recruited for, I asked my Mother how to evaluate them. She asked, "Why are you going to work?" I told her for the money. She recommended that I rank them based on their likely pay in 7-5 years. Then she asked what is my second work desire, I said "Mobility." We then discussed mobility. She pointed out the issues she knew about specific organizations, particularly when you have a mission or clientele whose goals were not easily met so I pulled out a couple from the pile.

Then she said to focus on a couple who best met desires 1 & 2 but to recognize that every job can be miserable, that is why they call it work.

Mom was a smart cookie. I recommend a similar process with your needs/desires.

 

[sailor]

I'll add another voice of caution about the entry level MBA salary. Have you seen any published job offers within this range?
monster.com? dice.com? glassdoor.com? craigslist.org?

 

[ziggy29]

and many, many emergencies, some of which were actual emergencies, but most because somebody wasn't paying attention.

As they say: Failure to plan on your part does not constitute a crisis on my part...

 

[Milton]

From what I can tell, most people work at jobs that they do not enjoy. If you are one of the fortunate few, you are blessed.

I am not so sure that you will enjoy working in business. Perhaps you might, but the odds are against it (see above). Despite your suggestion that you "love capitalism", "love the business world" and "am fascinated by stock trading and the economy", it isn't apparent from your posts that you have any significant private sector experience ... which is rather less sexy than portrayed on CNBC.

For those asking how I can get a executive job out of ATC, it is for two reasons. The first is I will have my MBA, the second is that I will have about 5 years of experience as a military officer. I've been doing a lot of research of military officer's with an MBA starting salary v. the average MBA and it is significantly higher, in the mid 100's to low 200's including bonus depending on the position and company (source below).

Quite frankly, there is no shortage of newly-minted MBAs, former military officers, or combinations thereof.

The $200,000 p.a. starting salary mentioned in the link you provided assumes employment in "bulge-bracket investment banking (Goldman, Morgan, Lehman, JP Morgan, etc.), or top-tier strategy consulting (McKinsey, BCG, Bain, Booz Allen), two of the most popular and conservative post-MBA professions for veterans". It's no secret that few such jobs are currently available (especially at Lehman Brothers! When was that puff written?).

I stand to be corrected, but I am not sure that former military officers with MBAs significantly out-earn average MBA graduates. Certainly the website you've cited does not support that. As it says, most private sector employers don't know what you've done in the military, don't understand what you've done in the military, or don't value what you've done in the military.

In any event, this all appears to be essentially a moot point. Your initial post says that you will be completing your MBA soon. Presumably you will want to put it to use, so that there is some return for the time and money you've invested (very few people go to business school for fun). In the circumstances, your decision was made more than a year ago, no?

 

[leftbucket]

you didn't mention staying on active duty as an option.

Is that option off the table?

you could retire 5 yrs earlier than you could with civilian
air traffic (41 vs. 46) and with a better pension multiplier, too.

I don't know your promo track but I'd guess you could
be knocking on 100k's door in 5 more yrs or so, right?

-LB

 

[Gumby]

How certain are you that you can score the $200k job? As I understand it, the school from which you earn your MBA and the area of concentration are the principal determinants of what type of job you might obtain. (i.e - Wharton finance grads get the primo jobs at Goldman, etc; others don't). In my own experience, when I first left the USN and looked for work, civilian employers valued my experience as a Navy officer far less than I did

 

[ATC KH]

you didn't mention staying on active duty as an option.

This is an option, but it is not as safe as you might think. The lieutenant's AFSC (job) would be 13MX (Airfield Operations). This AFSC seems to often be overmanned, and thus is often one of the more susceptible jobs to force shaping (reduction in force) measures by the USAF. Ironically, the enlisted AFSC 1C1X1 (Air Traffic Control) is almost always chronically undermanned.

So, ATC job and AF Reserve/Guard would be my gig. Tho it may be hard to do both if you are required to work weekends as an ATC.

Fortunately, this is never an issue. The FAA allows military leave, and the Air National Guard, in my experience, is very flexible with allowing RUTAs.

 

[traineeinvestor]

If the question is job satisfaction or large salary, Id go with the job satisfaction without a doubt...unless the large salary is so large that Id only have to put up with it for a few years. I think I could handle that.

That's what I did. Unfortunately, it became something of a slipery slope because I ended up enjoying some of what I did....until it got boring and I had children and got fed up with the working hours preventing me from seeing them in the evenings - by which stage I figured another 4-6 years would enable me to retire. Right now the last few years are dragging by so slowly....

Twenty years after starting my career, I'm not sure if I made the right decision or if I would make the same [-]mistake[/-] decision again.

 

[usafLT]

Yes, 13M3 is my AFSC. ATC KH is right though, the 13M world is a very small one, yet overmanned. The Air Force is going through a tough time for officers and many are getting force shaped out. I am at high risk for that right now. The 13M rarely goes higher than Major without having to switch to a different career. I commissioned through ROTC and at the time, only 6 out of 1600 graduates became 13M's, so you can see how small the field is. I have considered staying active duty, but I have about 4 years in right now, which means I have another 16 years active before I'm eligible to retire. The DW and I have decided to "settle down" before having a family. Don't get me wrong, I love to Air Force and every second I've been here.

The reason I'm getting my MBA is more to open my future options. If I stayed active, it helps with career progression. Business world it is obvious. In ATC, I'd like to move into a management position if the opportunity presents itself and an MBA can't hurt. A lot of it is paid for either through tuition assistance, GI bill, and scholarships, so I'll never consider it a waste.

After a lot of thought and everyone's advice and input, I think I'm going to try and get something in ATC. I liked jIMoh's idea of starting a small business on the side, which I may try to get into real estate investing eventually, perhaps once I'm in a routine. I would like to eventually get into a supervisory or management role just because I love the aspect of leading others. Obvious there are a lot of "ifs" there such as if there is an ATC opening at my facility choices, if a management position opens up, and if I have time to open a small business, but all-in-all I will take those "ifs" as they come.

Again, thank you all very much for your insight, it really got me to look at the problem from a few different angles. I do like the security of a government job, as well as the idea of working for something and not someone. Plus a pension at age 46 in addition to whatever I can save and invest up to that point doesn't hurt either. After all, I wouldn't be on this website if I didn't want an early retirement!

 

[Rustic23]

I vote ATC. There are several reasons. Lot's of money does not necessarily make you happy. There is usually a reason why businesses pay large salaries, and you can read between the lines of this forum and it is the reason most on here want out. There are a few, doctors, lawyers, and other professionals that are happy in their work, and those are happy to continue to work. I know several people that make lots of money and are constantly searching for job stress relief.

Another thing to consider about ATC, is the demand for controllers. It seems I read recently that they are expecting a shortage due to retirements of the Regan era controllers. This should provide great job security and advancement. The security of the job will allow you to grow rich slowly, while you do something you enjoy.

 

[ziggy29]

I vote ATC. There are several reasons. Lot's of money does not necessarily make you happy. There is usually a reason why businesses pay large salaries, and you can read between the lines of this forum and it is the reason most on here want out. There are a few, doctors, lawyers, and other professionals that are happy in their work, and those are happy to continue to work. I know several people that make lots of money and are constantly searching for job stress relief.

True. When a job pays really well, it's because that's the only way they can keep qualified people doing it. Conversely, some jobs may pay dirt even though they are skilled and demanding, and that's because these are jobs that many people want to do and find personally fulfilling.

Not too many jobs will pay you $100K and up if it's something a lot of people just love doing for 40 years. The market will take care of that. Usually there's enough danger, stress or corporate BS in these jobs to make people want an early exit, and the pay is the only thing stopping it.

 

[Danmar]

A job is a job is a job. I wish I had known this back in my 20's.

And your point is? Getting back to the OP. Why did you get your MBA? You must have been quite motivated towards a career in business at one point? Did you enjoy the process of getting the MBA? If so maybe business would be fun also? Sorry missed your last post-probably answered this already

 

[kcowan]

ATC is relatively high paying because of the minute-by-minute pressure that lives depend on. It is a high pressure environment. It is the familiar path, so if you are uncomfortable taking risk, then it is the best choice.

A similar job is being a FX trader for an investment bank. It requires the same mindset. Spilt-second decison-making with huge impacts. And the rewards are enormous for successful traders.

The benefit of the latter path is that there are career options beyond the trading desk. With the former, if(when) burnout happens, and it will, the only option is a lower paid position.

I think you should give the FX trading job a shot. If it does not work out, I am sure you could find your way back to an ATC job. At least you will have used the leverage of your MBA.

 

[usafLT]

ATC is relatively high paying because of the minute-by-minute pressure that lives depend on. It is a high pressure environment. It is the familiar path, so if you are uncomfortable taking risk, then it is the best choice.

A similar job is being a FX trader for an investment bank. It requires the same mindset. Spilt-second decison-making with huge impacts. And the rewards are enormous for successful traders.

The benefit of the latter path is that there are career options beyond the trading desk. With the former, if(when) burnout happens, and it will, the only option is a lower paid position.

I think you should give the FX trading job a shot. If it does not work out, I am sure you could find your way back to an ATC job. At least you will have used the leverage of your MBA.

Actually, the situation is exactly opposite of that. ATC has certain requirements to get into it. There are age restrictions for new hires and over time my ATC experience will wear off and the ATC shortage will be disappearing. If I went into ATC first and got burned out, I could then go into corporate a lot easier than the other way around. I would be a former military officer with an MBA and x number of years as a controller, so stress shouldn't be an issue. Most higher corporate positions want experience as well as education. This is especially true if I eventually got an ATC supervisor or manager position.

If I'm going to make the wrong decision, it'd be best to start in ATC then try to move to business v. the other way around.

 

[Nords]

I have considered staying active duty, but I have about 4 years in right now, which means I have another 16 years active before I'm eligible to retire. The DW and I have decided to "settle down" before having a family. Don't get me wrong, I love to Air Force and every second I've been here.

When spouse and I went through the post-Cold-War drawdown, one of the reasons I stayed on active duty was because she faced the possibility of being deployed on an unaccompanied tour for a year or two. I also stayed on active duty because the thought of "getting out" was more terrifying than the pointy-haired-bosses I was working for. I looked at several other Navy communities (other than submarines) but they all involved a large dose of "starting over" with no guarantee that spouse & I would be stationed together. There was also the aspect of being greeted by those communities with the sentiment of "Oh, great, another %$#@ing nuke." Not that your community would necessarily be treated this way.

Since then I've learned that the military has no more concern for your career or "covenant leadership" than any other Megacorps with [-]fungible assets[/-] "highly valued headcount". The fact that your small community is already on the radar (so to speak) doesn't make 20 years seem very likely. The only "good" thing about your community's dead end is that you may be paid to leave.

When I was on active duty I was largely clueless about the Reserve and the National Guard. The submarine force doesn't use their Reservists very well but I was good friends with a number of guys who could've mentored me, had I pulled my head out of my IN box for a few weeks of thoughtful contemplation.

With today's 20/20 hindsight, staying to 20 years was a mistake. I should've punched for the Reserves, taken whatever local Reserve active-duty orders or contracting/teaching/civil service jobs came my way, and enjoyed a much higher quality of life. Spouse's chances of remote-location duty were more speculative than I realized, and she could've also easily punched out for the Reserves. Even doing a year or two unaccompanied would have been far more tolerable than some of the crap we put up with to stay on active duty together. I abdicated my QOL for a guaranteed paycheck (assuming that nukes can even discern such a concept as "quality of life") but there's no assurance that the nuke pay was higher than anything I'd earn as a Reservist or a civilian. I'm probably pretty [-]obstinate[/-] lucky that my genes were able to cope with the workplace stress that I placed on my body, mind, & spirit.

My vote is that, once you've carefully added up the pros & cons, you should opt for quality of life over paycheck tonnage. As W2R says, a job is just a job.

 

[DeborahB]

Actually, the situation is exactly opposite of that. ATC has certain requirements to get into it. There are age restrictions for new hires and over time my ATC experience will wear off and the ATC shortage will be disappearing. If I went into ATC first and got burned out, I could then go into corporate a lot easier than the other way around. I would be a former military officer with an MBA and x number of years as a controller, so stress shouldn't be an issue. Most higher corporate positions want experience as well as education. This is especially true if I eventually got an ATC supervisor or manager position.

If I'm going to make the wrong decision, it'd be best to start in ATC then try to move to business v. the other way around.

I think this is a good strategy. You like ATC! It pays well.

Those salary numbers from the article are not accurate for most people. Plus they include bonus money - I think starting at $95K is not even a given at a corporate job with an MBA. These days - unemployment is high, and there are plenty of people with management experience competing for the good jobs. I didn't see anything stating how current the data was.

But the other thing is - you enjoy the work. Don't get sucked in by the theoretical money - it's not like you are choosing to take a $25K/year job. You will be well-paid in either case, apparently.

Most people just do not make huge (>$120K ) salaries, even with an MBA. MBA degrees are very common now - a good school means something in most cities but not all. I have co-workers who got MBAs in their spare time and they really are churning them out. Having lower stress and normal working hours is a great benefit to living a happy life.

Also - I know an ATC who had to start some medication and could not do the job any more - retirement with a pension at an early age is a lovely thing that I'm not going to have. But retirement - that I'm GOING to have!

 

[leftbucket]

Nords-

Sorry, this might derail the topic, but I think it's relevant to the OP's situation.

I've heard you say before that you wish you had not stayed 20 and I can't help
but wonder why. Do you really wish you had left at 10 yrs (I think you've said
that before) and gone into the reserves?

Wouldn't you say that your overall quality of life having been able to be retired for
the last several years is better because you stayed on for 20?

I'm not in the military, but I think if I hit 10 years (not necessarily 4 like the OP)
only serious marriage/family jeopardy would get me to leave before 20.

Again I'm not in the military, but in my own line of work, very few
folks with >5 yrs leave before 20 yrs on any kind of voluntary basis.

-LB

 

[laurence]

You have a $200k offer in hand? Where do you live that $150k is not sufficient for a comfortable lifestyle? I have my Masters and years experience and only make $105k in San Diego, and I consider myself fortunate! LOL!