Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-12-2009, 04:31 PM   #81
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,019
Corinne Maier, a French mother of two, dared to write a book about 40 reasons not to have children. It has been controversial ever since it was first published in France in 2007.

Angels or savages - who would have children? | Mail Online

As a pediatrician, I regularly see parents who have no business being parents. I feel sorry for their kids.
__________________

__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-13-2009, 04:09 PM   #82
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusitan View Post
I'd love to hear from one, because I've never heard anyone say that. Although I suppose someone could think it, and keep it to themselves.
Ann Landers had a question in her column in 1975: If you had it to do over again, would you have children?

Pretty amazing results - people are willing to admit things when they're relatively anonymous.
__________________

__________________
meekie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 04:15 PM   #83
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
IndependentlyPoor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,142
What do you think the population growth rate would be if sex were no more pleasurable than, say, typing?
__________________
IndependentlyPoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 04:18 PM   #84
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndependentlyPoor View Post
What do you think the population growth rate would be if sex were no more pleasurable than, say, typing?
I'm not sure, but it might give an entirely new meaning to the term "pounding the keyboard".
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 06:56 PM   #85
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
I'm not sure, but it might give an entirely new meaning to the term "pounding the keyboard".
And typing out a quick note to yourself would all of a sudden be banned by the Catholic Church as immoral.
__________________
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 06:58 PM   #86
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,531
We just planned a quick vacation with the kids next weekend. We are visiting Linville Falls to do a little hiking and waterfall watching. Then drive down the Blue Ridge Parkway a bit. Maybe see Mount Mitchell, time allowing. Then on to visit the relatives up in them mountains. I can almost hear those banjos twanging already...

No planes involved thank goodness.
__________________
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 09:21 PM   #87
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Jay_Gatsby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
We just planned a quick vacation with the kids next weekend. We are visiting Linville Falls to do a little hiking and waterfall watching. Then drive down the Blue Ridge Parkway a bit. Maybe see Mount Mitchell, time allowing. Then on to visit the relatives up in them mountains. I can almost hear those banjos twanging already...

No planes involved thank goodness.
I believe that driving your kids to vacation places is far better than getting on a plane. The latter is a tremendous hassle for adults, such that undertaking it with kids in tow more than once a year would seem masochistic.
__________________
He had one of those rare smiles with a quality of eternal reassurance in it . . . It faced, or seemed to face, the whole external world for an instant and then concentrated on you with an irresistible prejudice in your favor. -- The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald
Jay_Gatsby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009, 09:48 AM   #88
Full time employment: Posting here.
Lusitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndependentlyPoor View Post
What do you think the population growth rate would be if sex were no more pleasurable than, say, typing?
Well, the geeky answer is that it would probably be the same as it is today: natural selection would have made sure that only those "mutated" humans who found "typing" to be very pleasurable out-reproduced everyone else and populated the globe with their offspring who also inherited the typing-loving gene ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by meekie View Post
Ann Landers had a question in her column in 1975: If you had it to do over again, would you have children?
Pretty amazing results - people are willing to admit things when they're relatively anonymous.
Pretty amusing results, actually. (Wasn't the same fluff mainstream media just telling me that exercise is not good for losing weight?)

"If you had it to do over again, would you have children?

[W]e had received over 10,000 responses, and—are you ready for this?—70 percent of those who wrote said, “No. If I had it to do over again, I would not have children.

The 'No' mail fell into four major categories.

Category One: Young parents who were deeply concerned about global hunger, overpopulation and the possibility that we might incinerate ourselves with nuclear weapons. A San Francisco father expressed his sentiments candidly: “The world is in lousy shape. We would feel guilty if we brought a child into this mess. Later, if we decide we want a family, we will adopt."

[Um, OK -- so apparently this group of "parents" are representative of people who NEVER had kids, for their own personal reasons. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't see how it belongs in a story about people who regret having kids ...]

"Category Two: Parents who stated frankly that their children had ruined their marriage. “Our happiest years were the ones before the babies came,” wrote an Atlanta woman. “In those days, we had time for the theater, parties, rides in the country, weekend trips and best of all—each other.” ...

[LOL - this is exactly why I am not going to stop doing all the fun stuff my wife and I love doing just because we have kids. Seems the best way to avoid feeling resentment and bitterness is to NOT structure your entire world around doing what you think your kid wants to do all the time.]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton View Post
Research shows that people typically regret inactions more than actions ....
Which is why I'm not postponing holidays and foreign travel just because I have kids ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby View Post
I believe that driving your kids to vacation places is far better than getting on a plane. The latter is a tremendous hassle for adults, such that undertaking it with kids in tow more than once a year would seem masochistic.
Not at all true in my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadbh View Post
Corinne Maier, a French mother of two, dared to write a book about 40 reasons not to have children. It has been controversial ever since it was first published in France in 2007.
Pretty funny, she's the same "shock-author" who is quite media-savvy at generating buzz for her business (selling books) by staking out controversial positions, seemingly just for the heck of it (see her previous cult-classic "Hello Laziness - The Art and the Importance of Doing the Least Possible in the Workplace" that generated the same buzz a few years ago; she knows how to sell books.)

As always, an interview with the author is more revealing than their shock-titled literary creations.

"Nevertheless, it is still shocking to read her declaration that there are moments when she regrets having children – a taboo thought that few mothers would dare to admit ....'Certain days I regret having had them – and I dare to say it.'"

Wow, gee shocking -- "moments" of regret on "certain days" ...

From the same interview, it's actually quite amusing that one of her biggest gripes is "stupid holiday destinations" that parents seem to think are required once you have kids:

"She lavishes scorn on the 'stupid' holiday destinations that adults choose once they have saddled themselves with children – such as Disneyland Paris, a 'village of animated idiots populated by underpaid people dressed as ducks'. 'No, I’ve never been to Disney and I’ve told my children that I will never take them,' Maier says."

Enfants terribles - Times Online

Well, I've got that in common with the author. I've never been to Disneyland, and I don't have it on my agenda for my kids either. I'd rather see the rest of the real world first.

My point was simply that you don't have to stop traveling to interesting places just because you have kids.
__________________
Lusitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009, 11:38 AM   #89
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 103
I understand the OP's feeling of malaise, but a 95% job is not something to walk away from. The job I have now is well above average in terms of work environment / quality of life, and if I were made "redundant," I would have a very hard time finding anything similar.
__________________
segfault is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009, 03:00 PM   #90
Moderator
Sarah in SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 13,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by meekie View Post
Ann Landers had a question in her column in 1975: If you had it to do over again, would you have children?

Pretty amazing results - people are willing to admit things when they're relatively anonymous.
And from that same website, a fabulous glossary for the childfree that netted this gem, with apologies to the awesome "DRINKERS' sig line:

THINKER -- Two healthy incomes, no kids, early retirement.


__________________
“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.”
Gerard Arthur Way

Sarah in SC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 06:56 PM   #91
Full time employment: Posting here.
GoodSense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by segfault View Post
I understand the OP's feeling of malaise, but a 95% job is not something to walk away from. The job I have now is well above average in terms of work environment / quality of life, and if I were made "redundant," I would have a very hard time finding anything similar.
I know, that's why quitting is not an option.

Judging from the direction this thread has taken, maybe I need to think about having kids. I am very conflicted on the issue -- though it's for another thread.

I only browsed through the FAQs on the Happily Childfree website. Seem to be a misnomer since the author sounds extremely unhappy with everyone else.
__________________
GoodSense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 08:43 PM   #92
Recycles dryer sheets
heyduke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSense View Post
I know, that's why quitting is not an option.

Judging from the direction this thread has taken, maybe I need to think about having kids. I am very conflicted on the issue -- though it's for another thread.

I only browsed through the FAQs on the Happily Childfree website. Seem to be a misnomer since the author sounds extremely unhappy with everyone else.
...can you say catch 22? no kids means no internal family fulfillment... if you can live with that then you can retire early... otherwise you will retire later but you still can retire early... only you know what YOU should do!
__________________
heyduke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 08:50 PM   #93
Moderator
Sarah in SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 13,456
Yeah, some childfree folks are pretty bitter--I think they must catch a hard time from other folks about their lack of procreation. I don't get hassled so much, so I don't really care. I did really like the glossary.

As for the original question (sort of): I suspect you have to find some stuff to make you feel like you are making an impact in this world: maybe it is kids, maybe it is a job, maybe it is something else. The best part is trying to figure that out.
__________________
“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.”
Gerard Arthur Way

Sarah in SC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2009, 08:45 PM   #94
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Well, I'm pretty much a misanthrope, but I'd be even more bitter if I had a kid to take care of for 18+ years.

My j*b isn't perfect, but I plan to stick with it until either it's no longer a 95% j*b, or until life intervenes to prevent me from staying there. No sign of either at this point, so I'm fairly content.
__________________
segfault is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 10:19 AM   #95
Full time employment: Posting here.
Lusitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 620
Somewhat on-topic (at least, insofar as the topic veered off into a discussion about kids), and interesting piece in today's NY Times:

The Referendum - Happy Days Blog - NYTimes.com

"[W]e only get one chance at this, with no do-overs. Life is, in effect, a non-repeatable experiment with no control. In his novel about marriage, “Light Years,” James Salter writes: “For whatever we do, even whatever we do not do prevents us from doing its opposite. Acts demolish their alternatives, that is the paradox.” Watching our peers’ lives is the closest we can come to a glimpse of the parallel universes in which we didn’t ruin that relationship years ago, or got that job we applied for, or got on that plane after all. It’s tempting to read other people’s lives as cautionary fables or repudiations of our own ....

One of the hardest things to look at in this life is the lives we didn’t lead, the path not taken, potential left unfulfilled. In stories, those who look back — Lot’s wife, Orpheus and Eurydice — are lost. Looking to the side instead, to gauge how our companions are faring, is a way of glancing at a safer reflection of what we cannot directly bear, like Perseus seeing the Gorgon safely mirrored in his shield."
__________________
Lusitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2009, 03:50 PM   #96
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Milton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah in SC View Post
Yeah, some childfree folks are pretty bitter--I think they must catch a hard time from other folks about their lack of procreation. I don't get hassled so much, so I don't really care.
I'm happy to say that I don't recall ever being hassled about my decision not to have children. Perhaps this is a more common problem for women? Anyway I've been lucky so far (and the older, I get the less likely it is to occur).

I can't claim complete self-awareness, but I don't perceive myself as bitter. Having children is a very personal decision, and I don't mind other people making a different choice than mine.
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
Milton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2009, 08:43 PM   #97
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
simple girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton View Post
I'm happy to say that I don't recall ever being hassled about my decision not to have children. Perhaps this is a more common problem for women? Anyway I've been lucky so far (and the older, I get the less likely it is to occur).
Yes, I think you are right. DH does not get the 3rd degree, but I often do/did.

"It's a joy you'll never know"
"You'll never think you are ready, you just have to do it"
"But you would be such a good mother!"
"Being able to do those other things will seem so unimportant once you have children."
"Don't you worry about being old and alone someday?"

Etc. No one being nasty towards me (ok, well, maybe a few looked down their noses at me with a tsk, tsk.)....mostly, though, people just can't fathom why I wouldn't want children, and they want to convince me otherwise. It is such a foreign concept for them.

It made me a little bitter when I was younger, because I got so tired of explaining myself and having to defend our decision. However, I get questioned less as I get older...most people now assume I can't have children. Also, I've learned most people are not being critical, they just can't comprehend our decision.
__________________
__________________
simple girl
less stuff, more time

(49, married; DH 53. I am fully retired as of 2015 (well ok, I still work part-time but only because I love the job and have complete freedom to call off if I want to travel with hubby for work), DH hopes to fully retire 2018 when he turns 55 to access 401K penalty-free...although he may decide to do part-time consulting)
simple girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2009, 10:07 PM   #98
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by simple girl View Post
Etc. No one being nasty towards me (ok, well, maybe a few looked down their noses at me with a tsk, tsk.)....mostly, though, people just can't fathom why I wouldn't want children, and they want to convince me otherwise. It is such a foreign concept for them.

It made me a little bitter when I was younger, because I got so tired of explaining myself and having to defend our decision. However, I get questioned less as I get older...most people now assume I can't have children. Also, I've learned most people are not being critical, they just can't comprehend our decision.
__________________
Don't feel too bad. The baby nagging wouldn't stop completely even if you had a couple. We have two girls and still get the occasional ribbing from in-laws. "What, just two girls? Don't you want a son?". "Well your aunt had sixteen kids, why only two for you?". "But you are still so young". The concept of quality over quantity occasionally escapes the grasp of our verbal sparring partners. I have just learned that as long as you have one more "no" than they have "but come on"s, you win. It does take a little bit of gumption to hold your ground. But when it comes down to it, you are living your life and others are not.
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2009, 10:21 PM   #99
Moderator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 21,135
We absolutely respect people's decision not to have children. Our daughter doesn't want children (has been very happily married for over 8 years) and we certainly are not disappointed, neither do we desire grandchildren.

MIL's 2 sisters chose not to have children but DW said she found the urge to have children quite overwhelming even though she half expected not to want children as she was very close to her Aunts growing up and was envious of all the extra money and freedom they seemed to have. (DW is one of 4 children as am I)

As for me - I just do as I'm told )
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2009, 09:07 AM   #100
Moderator
Sarah in SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 13,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by simple girl View Post
Yes, I think you are right. DH does not get the 3rd degree, but I often do/did.

"It's a joy you'll never know"
"You'll never think you are ready, you just have to do it"
"But you would be such a good mother!"
"Being able to do those other things will seem so unimportant once you have children."
"Don't you worry about being old and alone someday?"

Etc. No one being nasty towards me (ok, well, maybe a few looked down their noses at me with a tsk, tsk.)....mostly, though, people just can't fathom why I wouldn't want children, and they want to convince me otherwise. It is such a foreign concept for them.

It made me a little bitter when I was younger, because I got so tired of explaining myself and having to defend our decision. However, I get questioned less as I get older...most people now assume I can't have children. Also, I've learned most people are not being critical, they just can't comprehend our decision.
__________________
I've gotten these before, but the best one was when someone told me I was selfish for not having kids! That one really burned--the nerve!

However, even my father concedes that I am less than nurturing and that I probably wouldn't be all that great with kids after all.

I always see it as a confirmation bias issue--they don't want to question their decision and what give me the right to invalidate it by choosing something different.
__________________

__________________
“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.”
Gerard Arthur Way

Sarah in SC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Ah Ha moment! Just happened. newguy88 Other topics 10 04-06-2008 04:46 PM
A moment of silence please... cute fuzzy bunny Other topics 8 02-19-2007 09:29 AM
A Senior Moment frayne Other topics 1 01-26-2007 10:11 AM
Just a nice moment Rich_by_the_Bay Other topics 8 09-26-2006 10:45 AM
Senior moment? Or... REWahoo Other topics 10 06-27-2006 01:24 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:49 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.