Live in the Moment?

[Meadbh]

Corinne Maier, a French mother of two, dared to write a book about 40 reasons not to have children. It has been controversial ever since it was first published in France in 2007.

Angels or savages - who would have children? | Mail Online

As a pediatrician, I regularly see parents who have no business being parents. I feel sorry for their kids.

[meekie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusitan I'd love to hear from one, because I've never heard anyone say that. Although I suppose someone could think it, and keep it to themselves.

Ann Landers had a question in her column in 1975: If you had it to do over again, would you have children?

Pretty amazing results - people are willing to admit things when they're relatively anonymous.

[IndependentlyPoor]

What do you think the population growth rate would be if sex were no more pleasurable than, say, typing?

[REWahoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndependentlyPoor What do you think the population growth rate would be if sex were no more pleasurable than, say, typing?

I'm not sure, but it might give an entirely new meaning to the term "pounding the keyboard".

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo I'm not sure, but it might give an entirely new meaning to the term "pounding the keyboard".

And typing out a quick note to yourself would all of a sudden be banned by the Catholic Church as immoral.

[FUEGO]

We just planned a quick vacation with the kids next weekend. We are visiting Linville Falls to do a little hiking and waterfall watching. Then drive down the Blue Ridge Parkway a bit. Maybe see Mount Mitchell, time allowing. Then on to visit the relatives up in them mountains. I can almost hear those banjos twanging already...

No planes involved thank goodness.

[Jay_Gatsby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUEGO We just planned a quick vacation with the kids next weekend. We are visiting Linville Falls to do a little hiking and waterfall watching. Then drive down the Blue Ridge Parkway a bit. Maybe see Mount Mitchell, time allowing. Then on to visit the relatives up in them mountains. I can almost hear those banjos twanging already... No planes involved thank goodness.

I believe that driving your kids to vacation places is far better than getting on a plane. The latter is a tremendous hassle for adults, such that undertaking it with kids in tow more than once a year would seem masochistic.

[Lusitan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndependentlyPoor What do you think the population growth rate would be if sex were no more pleasurable than, say, typing?

Well, the geeky answer is that it would probably be the same as it is today: natural selection would have made sure that only those "mutated" humans who found "typing" to be very pleasurable out-reproduced everyone else and populated the globe with their offspring who also inherited the typing-loving gene ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by meekie Ann Landers had a question in her column in 1975: If you had it to do over again, would you have children? Pretty amazing results - people are willing to admit things when they're relatively anonymous.

Pretty amusing results, actually. (Wasn't the same fluff mainstream media just telling me that exercise is not good for losing weight?)

"If you had it to do over again, would you have children?

[W]e had received over 10,000 responses, and—are you ready for this?—70 percent of those who wrote said, “No. If I had it to do over again, I would not have children.

The 'No' mail fell into four major categories.

Category One: Young parents who were deeply concerned about global hunger, overpopulation and the possibility that we might incinerate ourselves with nuclear weapons. A San Francisco father expressed his sentiments candidly: “The world is in lousy shape. We would feel guilty if we brought a child into this mess. Later, if we decide we want a family, we will adopt."

[Um, OK -- so apparently this group of "parents" are representative of people who NEVER had kids, for their own personal reasons. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't see how it belongs in a story about people who regret having kids ...]

"Category Two: Parents who stated frankly that their children had ruined their marriage. “Our happiest years were the ones before the babies came,” wrote an Atlanta woman. “In those days, we had time for the theater, parties, rides in the country, weekend trips and best of all—each other.” ...

[LOL - this is exactly why I am not going to stop doing all the fun stuff my wife and I love doing just because we have kids. Seems the best way to avoid feeling resentment and bitterness is to NOT structure your entire world around doing what you think your kid wants to do all the time.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton Research shows that people typically regret inactions more than actions ....

Which is why I'm not postponing holidays and foreign travel just because I have kids ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby I believe that driving your kids to vacation places is far better than getting on a plane. The latter is a tremendous hassle for adults, such that undertaking it with kids in tow more than once a year would seem masochistic.

Not at all true in my experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh Corinne Maier, a French mother of two, dared to write a book about 40 reasons not to have children. It has been controversial ever since it was first published in France in 2007.

Pretty funny, she's the same "shock-author" who is quite media-savvy at generating buzz for her business (selling books) by staking out controversial positions, seemingly just for the heck of it (see her previous cult-classic "Hello Laziness - The Art and the Importance of Doing the Least Possible in the Workplace" that generated the same buzz a few years ago; she knows how to sell books.)

As always, an interview with the author is more revealing than their shock-titled literary creations.

"Nevertheless, it is still shocking to read her declaration that there are moments when she regrets having children – a taboo thought that few mothers would dare to admit ....'Certain days I regret having had them – and I dare to say it.'"

Wow, gee shocking -- "moments" of regret on "certain days" ...

From the same interview, it's actually quite amusing that one of her biggest gripes is "stupid holiday destinations" that parents seem to think are required once you have kids:

"She lavishes scorn on the 'stupid' holiday destinations that adults choose once they have saddled themselves with children – such as Disneyland Paris, a 'village of animated idiots populated by underpaid people dressed as ducks'. 'No, I’ve never been to Disney and I’ve told my children that I will never take them,' Maier says."

Enfants terribles - Times Online

Well, I've got that in common with the author. I've never been to Disneyland, and I don't have it on my agenda for my kids either. I'd rather see the rest of the real world first.

My point was simply that you don't have to stop traveling to interesting places just because you have kids.

[segfault]

I understand the OP's feeling of malaise, but a 95% job is not something to walk away from. The job I have now is well above average in terms of work environment / quality of life, and if I were made "redundant," I would have a very hard time finding anything similar.

[Sarah in SC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meekie Ann Landers had a question in her column in 1975: If you had it to do over again, would you have children? Pretty amazing results - people are willing to admit things when they're relatively anonymous.

And from that same website, a fabulous glossary for the childfree that netted this gem, with apologies to the awesome "DRINKERS' sig line:

THINKER -- Two healthy incomes, no kids, early retirement.

[GoodSense]

Quote:

Originally Posted by segfault I understand the OP's feeling of malaise, but a 95% job is not something to walk away from. The job I have now is well above average in terms of work environment / quality of life, and if I were made "redundant," I would have a very hard time finding anything similar.

I know, that's why quitting is not an option.

Judging from the direction this thread has taken, maybe I need to think about having kids. I am very conflicted on the issue -- though it's for another thread.

I only browsed through the FAQs on the Happily Childfree website. Seem to be a misnomer since the author sounds extremely unhappy with everyone else.

[heyduke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodSense I know, that's why quitting is not an option. Judging from the direction this thread has taken, maybe I need to think about having kids. I am very conflicted on the issue -- though it's for another thread. I only browsed through the FAQs on the Happily Childfree website. Seem to be a misnomer since the author sounds extremely unhappy with everyone else.

...can you say catch 22? no kids means no internal family fulfillment... if you can live with that then you can retire early... otherwise you will retire later but you still can retire early... only you know what YOU should do!

[Sarah in SC]

Yeah, some childfree folks are pretty bitter--I think they must catch a hard time from other folks about their lack of procreation. I don't get hassled so much, so I don't really care. I did really like the glossary.

As for the original question (sort of): I suspect you have to find some stuff to make you feel like you are making an impact in this world: maybe it is kids, maybe it is a job, maybe it is something else. The best part is trying to figure that out.

[segfault]

Well, I'm pretty much a misanthrope, but I'd be even more bitter if I had a kid to take care of for 18+ years.

My j*b isn't perfect, but I plan to stick with it until either it's no longer a 95% j*b, or until life intervenes to prevent me from staying there. No sign of either at this point, so I'm fairly content.

[Lusitan]

Somewhat on-topic (at least, insofar as the topic veered off into a discussion about kids), and interesting piece in today's NY Times:

The Referendum - Happy Days Blog - NYTimes.com

"[W]e only get one chance at this, with no do-overs. Life is, in effect, a non-repeatable experiment with no control. In his novel about marriage, “Light Years,” James Salter writes: “For whatever we do, even whatever we do not do prevents us from doing its opposite. Acts demolish their alternatives, that is the paradox.” Watching our peers’ lives is the closest we can come to a glimpse of the parallel universes in which we didn’t ruin that relationship years ago, or got that job we applied for, or got on that plane after all. It’s tempting to read other people’s lives as cautionary fables or repudiations of our own ....

One of the hardest things to look at in this life is the lives we didn’t lead, the path not taken, potential left unfulfilled. In stories, those who look back — Lot’s wife, Orpheus and Eurydice — are lost. Looking to the side instead, to gauge how our companions are faring, is a way of glancing at a safer reflection of what we cannot directly bear, like Perseus seeing the Gorgon safely mirrored in his shield."

[Milton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah in SC Yeah, some childfree folks are pretty bitter--I think they must catch a hard time from other folks about their lack of procreation. I don't get hassled so much, so I don't really care.

I'm happy to say that I don't recall ever being hassled about my decision not to have children. Perhaps this is a more common problem for women? Anyway I've been lucky so far (and the older, I get the less likely it is to occur).

I can't claim complete self-awareness, but I don't perceive myself as bitter. Having children is a very personal decision, and I don't mind other people making a different choice than mine.

[simple girl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton I'm happy to say that I don't recall ever being hassled about my decision not to have children. Perhaps this is a more common problem for women? Anyway I've been lucky so far (and the older, I get the less likely it is to occur).

Yes, I think you are right. DH does not get the 3rd degree, but I often do/did.

"It's a joy you'll never know"
"You'll never think you are ready, you just have to do it"
"But you would be such a good mother!"
"Being able to do those other things will seem so unimportant once you have children."
"Don't you worry about being old and alone someday?"

Etc. No one being nasty towards me (ok, well, maybe a few looked down their noses at me with a tsk, tsk.)....mostly, though, people just can't fathom why I wouldn't want children, and they want to convince me otherwise. It is such a foreign concept for them.

It made me a little bitter when I was younger, because I got so tired of explaining myself and having to defend our decision. However, I get questioned less as I get older...most people now assume I can't have children. Also, I've learned most people are not being critical, they just can't comprehend our decision.
__________________

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by simple girl Etc. No one being nasty towards me (ok, well, maybe a few looked down their noses at me with a tsk, tsk.)....mostly, though, people just can't fathom why I wouldn't want children, and they want to convince me otherwise. It is such a foreign concept for them. It made me a little bitter when I was younger, because I got so tired of explaining myself and having to defend our decision. However, I get questioned less as I get older...most people now assume I can't have children. Also, I've learned most people are not being critical, they just can't comprehend our decision. __________________

Don't feel too bad. The baby nagging wouldn't stop completely even if you had a couple. We have two girls and still get the occasional ribbing from in-laws. "What, just two girls? Don't you want a son?". "Well your aunt had sixteen kids, why only two for you?". "But you are still so young". The concept of quality over quantity occasionally escapes the grasp of our verbal sparring partners. I have just learned that as long as you have one more "no" than they have "but come on"s, you win. It does take a little bit of gumption to hold your ground. But when it comes down to it, you are living your life and others are not.

[Alan]

We absolutely respect people's decision not to have children. Our daughter doesn't want children (has been very happily married for over 8 years) and we certainly are not disappointed, neither do we desire grandchildren.

MIL's 2 sisters chose not to have children but DW said she found the urge to have children quite overwhelming even though she half expected not to want children as she was very close to her Aunts growing up and was envious of all the extra money and freedom they seemed to have. (DW is one of 4 children as am I)

As for me - I just do as I'm told )

[Sarah in SC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by simple girl Yes, I think you are right. DH does not get the 3rd degree, but I often do/did. "It's a joy you'll never know" "You'll never think you are ready, you just have to do it" "But you would be such a good mother!" "Being able to do those other things will seem so unimportant once you have children." "Don't you worry about being old and alone someday?" Etc. No one being nasty towards me (ok, well, maybe a few looked down their noses at me with a tsk, tsk.)....mostly, though, people just can't fathom why I wouldn't want children, and they want to convince me otherwise. It is such a foreign concept for them. It made me a little bitter when I was younger, because I got so tired of explaining myself and having to defend our decision. However, I get questioned less as I get older...most people now assume I can't have children. Also, I've learned most people are not being critical, they just can't comprehend our decision. __________________

I've gotten these before, but the best one was when someone told me I was selfish for not having kids! That one really burned--the nerve!

However, even my father concedes that I am less than nurturing and that I probably wouldn't be all that great with kids after all.

I always see it as a confirmation bias issue--they don't want to question their decision and what give me the right to invalidate it by choosing something different.