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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 11:47 AM   #41
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

The problem with the schools teaching about homosexuality is typically they go way overboard. If it is just information I have little problem with it. I think the kids should be exposed it the information at home early enough that the school info is old news. The main problem with it seems to be the advocacy of any lifestyle not considered mainstream.

Though it is not about homosexuality, I had to convice my kid that he wasn't bad because he was white. All because the school had a black history month and protrayed all white people as evil and all black people as good. The school's job is to provide information and context the family's job is to provide values.

As far as the Bible goes whatever you want to do, except for the 10 biggies, you can find a passage in the Bible to support your actions. So I have a hard time accepting a verse from the Bible prohibiting or condoneing anything.
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 12:39 PM   #42
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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As far as the Bible goes whatever you want to do, except for the 10 biggies, you can find a passage in the Bible to support your actions. *So I have a hard time accepting a verse from the Bible prohibiting or condoneing anything.
If that's the case that it says anything that you want it to say then it really says nothing and is only a tool for advancing yourself and beating up on others.
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 12:42 PM   #43
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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...accumulating the level of wealth...
Christians are commanded to provide for their families, this requires working hard to accumulate sufficient assets to do so.

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

1 Timothy 5:8 KJV
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 12:58 PM   #44
 
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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Christians are commanded to provide for their families, this requires working hard to accumulate sufficient assets to do so.

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

1 Timothy 5:8 KJV

Michael,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to best follow them.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.


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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 01:37 PM   #45
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

Cut-Throat, this is professional satire. You could have a whole new career if you were able to take the time away from the fish who also need you for the catch and caress program.

We beseech thee, give us more.

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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 02:07 PM   #46
 
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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Cut-Throat, this is professional satire. You could have a whole new career if you were able to take the time away from the fish who also need you for the catch and caress program.

We beseech thee, give us more.

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I stole it! - Please forgive me.
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 02:49 PM   #47
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

Michael, I learned the hard way last year that you
can't win with these people in a discussion of moral
issues. My advise is to let it alone and keep your
comments neutral. How is the weather where you
live?

Cheers,

Charlie
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 06:05 PM   #48
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

The weather is brisk Charlie, thanks for asking.
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 06:09 PM   #49
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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Strangely they're not teaching enough financial management, stockpicking, or low-cost tax-efficient index mutual funds.
Hey, here's something we probably all are in agreement with. We are having to assume more and more responsibility for our retirement, as we move away from defined benefit plans, and yet we are mostly a nation of financial illiterates. Personal finance really needs to be taught from grade school on up.

I cannot imagine the stress some people must feel when they approach retirement. Most of the people I work with quietly put money into their 401k plan without much thought as to what they are doing. I would think it would be very stressful to start retirement without having much financial savy.

-helen
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 06:19 PM   #50
 
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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*Strangely they're not teaching enough financial management, stockpicking, or low-cost tax-efficient index mutual funds. *But I'm not hearing any objections on those topics!
I think Wall Street has a powerful lobby to prevent this.
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 08:59 PM   #51
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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Personal finance really needs to be taught from grade school on up.
I don't know if parents are spending enough time in school with the kids, especially since "No Child Left Behind" was passed. My impression is that teachers are overloaded and that they don't welcome comments like that quote. But I'll wait for 'Ol Rancher's feedback there.

Personally I don't believe that the school "needs" to teach any of the money, sex, religion, or politics issues. Civics, geography, & social studies are useful but after that it's a slippery slope downhill. Frankly the educational system has its hands full with reading, writing, arithmetic, and sciences.

So I don't think schools should have to teach any more financial management than is already taught in economics. Checkbooks, budgets, investments, deferred gratification, ER-- that's all a parental job! Do you really want to leave it to your local government institution?

The educational system isn't exactly a a paragon of financial virtue, either-- it's alarming how much of our tax dollars are wasted on overhead. The teachers barely have enough space or equipment, let alone time. So now spouse & I practice what we preach. During the school year we get to know the teachers at open houses, at field trips, and whenever they ask for parent volunteers. After the year's over, we pick one or two of our kid's teachers and give them an envelope containing $100 in small, unmarked bills. We enclose a note telling them that it's for those projects that would take forever to obtain grants, or to buy the school supplies they need NOW without filling out a bunch of paperwork, or to spend it on themselves-- because if they can inspire OUR kid, they've certainly earned it.
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-18-2005, 11:05 PM   #52
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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Personally I don't believe that the school "needs" to teach any of the money, sex, religion, or politics issues. *Civics, geography, & social studies are useful but after that it's a slippery slope downhill. *Frankly the educational system has its hands full with reading, writing, arithmetic, and sciences.
I agree for sure. Look how well India can educate its children, even in little villages where the parent generation often is illiterate. I previously thought that most of the Indian engineers and programmers that came over here were from upper middle class backgrounds. Some are, but plenty are from villages where there aren't even many light bulbs. Meanwhile in our schools we spend somewhere between $5000 and $9000 per student, and many of them are nevertheless practically illiterate, and even more are innumerate.
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So I don't think schools should have to teach any more financial management than is already taught in economics. *Checkbooks, budgets, investments, deferred gratification, ER-- that's all a parental job! *Do you really want to leave it to your local government institution?
Not to a local, state or federal government institution. Least of all federal.
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During the school year we get to know the teachers at open houses, at field trips, and whenever they ask for parent volunteers. *After the year's over, we pick one or two of our kid's teachers and give them an envelope containing $100 in small, unmarked bills. *We enclose a note telling them that it's for those projects that would take forever to obtain grants, or to buy the school supplies they need NOW without filling out a bunch of paperwork, or to spend it on themselves-- because if they can inspire OUR kid, they've certainly earned it.
I had a high school friend whose mother was very aggressive and ambitious for her boy. She did something similar to what you describe, but with one very important difference. Being a frugal person, she figured she would get more bang for her buck by gifting at the start of the year.

I guess the staff hadn't had their ethics workshops. :)

Mikey
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-19-2005, 01:21 AM   #53
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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If that's the case that it says anything that you want it to say then it really says nothing and is only a tool for advancing yourself and beating up on others.
Essentially that is true. Fortunately most people don't use it in that manner and use it for the good of all.
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-19-2005, 04:11 AM   #54
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

I'm split on financial education in schools. On one hand I think kids should be taught in school personal finance and a little investing. On the other hand I'm fairly certain it would not materialize quite as I envision it with the collection of investing ideals this board holds but instead be influenced by higher fee, inappropriate and comissioned investments partially due to the direct influence of investment companies and partially indirectly of them because so many think whole life and annuities are great ideas.
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-19-2005, 04:22 AM   #55
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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Personally I don't believe that the school "needs" to teach any of the money, sex, religion, or politics issues. *Civics, geography, & social studies are useful but after that it's a slippery slope downhill. *Frankly the educational system has its hands full with reading, writing, arithmetic, and sciences.
Do you really want to leave it to your local government institution?
Amen!

I think formal schooling and education is essential for teaching the things you don't pick up from your parents, like mitosis, square roots, the binary system.

I would think how to live and conduct oneself through life is best learned from parents/guardians. * The key is to choose good ones.
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-19-2005, 06:28 AM   #56
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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Michael,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. *I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to best follow them.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?
*
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
*
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
*
Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
*
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
*
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
*
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

C'mon CT, I have to pretend to be doing something productive here at w**k, not laughing until I nearly wet myaself...
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-19-2005, 07:28 AM   #57
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

Here's another one for you (although a bit cruder -- you've been warned)

In the Old Testament (Gen 24:9) an oath was given by "placing his hand under the thigh". UNDER the thigh? The Hebrew word in this case is "Yarek" which means shaft, loin, regenerative parts. That would be a man's genitals in our language. The Latin translation is "testis" or testicle. The words "testify" and "testament" comes from the fact that when a man swore an oath, he did so by placing his hand on his genitals. Today we use a Bible. Go figure.
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-19-2005, 07:50 AM   #58
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

I'm surprised not everyone had seen Cut Throat's list before. The first time I saw it was as an open letter from a professor to radio host Dr. Laura Schlessinger in response to quoting the bible as not allowing a gay lifestyle. It is my impression that was the original example of the questions.

I hadn't heard the bit about testifying, though. I'd love to see that in court. "Do you swear upon your genitals...?" I wouldn't want to lie.
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-19-2005, 05:59 PM   #59
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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So I don't think schools should have to teach any more financial management than is already taught in economics. Checkbooks, budgets, investments, deferred gratification, ER-- that's all a parental job! Do you really want to leave it to your local government institution?
Nords, I think you've made some good points about the school system having a lot to take on just teaching the basics. I must admit that I don't know many teachers nor do I have kids and it's been a long time since I was in high school. I am out of touch with the problems the school system faces.

However, when I talk to a lot of my coworkers and friends, who are 40 years old and older, I realize most of them don't understand the basics of personal finance. I don't know how much knowledge they could pass along to their kids.

I think even a semster long class in high school that taught on the subject of debt, IRAs, 401ks, compounding effects of money, etc would provide a great service to many young people just starting out. It certainly would have helped me with the nuts and bolts.

My Father actually talked a lot about investing and especially saving money, but he only bought individual stocks. He'd give me the big lecture about saving for retirement and how pensions and social security weren't enough to live on. But, when I'd ask him how to invest his answers became very vague.

I remember asking my COBOL professor what class he thought I should take as an elective in college, his response was personal finance. I should have listened ....

-helen

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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers
Old 01-19-2005, 07:03 PM   #60
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Re: Long Term Trends Affecting Young Dreamers

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So I don't think schools should have to teach any more financial management than is already taught in economics. Checkbooks, budgets, investments, deferred gratification, ER-- that's all a parental job! Do you really want to leave it to your local government institution?
I agree public schools are probably not the ideal place for teaching the financial facts of life, and parents can't teach their children something most of them don't understand. One non-profit organization, Junior Achievement, recognizes the problem and makes an effort to at least expose children to some basic financial management and basic business information. For a number of years I volunteered at a local middle school to teach a one-hour per week class on financial management to 7th graders. The course was for 10 weeks and covered the basics of checking, budgeting, investing, credit cards, interest, mortgage loans, etc. The course material was well-designed and got the kids invovlved with hands-on exercises.

Although the course didn't go beyond the bare basics, it was interesting to see that a number of them "got it". I'd like to think some of them will be posting on this forum in the not too distant future... :)

REW
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