Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-10-2013, 11:43 AM   #101
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
That was the mistake I made the first time. Having learned my lesson I made sure that was discussed before marrying the second time.
It's a difficult thing to discuss I think. Especially things like current net worth. (Let's be honest, most of us talk more freely about our net worth on these forums than to any people in our non-virtual lives.)

Someone also mentioned earlier how "frugal" is considered "not sexy" to women.

Even if you have the discussion right before deciding to get engaged - and she/he mentions that they have a significant amount of debt - would you walk away from someone you who you seemingly have deep feelings for?

During dating you also put on airs regarding money (at least I do). For example, if you go to a ball game on date I think it's appropriate to spend the $10 on drinks while in my personal life I likely wouldn't. (Or sneak it in.... )
__________________

__________________
Bankerwithabrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-10-2013, 12:32 PM   #102
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankerwithabrain View Post
During dating you also put on airs regarding money (at least I do). For example, if you go to a ball game on date I think it's appropriate to spend the $10 on drinks while in my personal life I likely wouldn't. (Or sneak it in.... )
This would be a good weed out. Go ahead and bring your own stash. When you whip your flask out, see if she whips her flask out. If you get anything less than a "wow, that's a pretty clever idea", then dump her.
__________________

__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 01:24 PM   #103
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankerwithabrain View Post
Even if you have the discussion right before deciding to get engaged - and she/he mentions that they have a significant amount of debt - would you walk away from someone you who you seemingly have deep feelings for?
Yes, I have done that. A really cute and nice guy, perfect in every way except he had too much graduate school debt (I had zero student debt) and a location dependent profession where my career, even though my top salary would be less, allowed a lot of mobility, even moving to other countries if I wanted.

I just put a high price on financial and geographic freedom.

You have to look at the total package. Or as a funny Amazon reviewer put it for men, you have to think with the big head about these kinds of matters.

If you are putting on financial airs during dating, then you aren't weeding out the spendthrifts.
__________________
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 02:37 PM   #104
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankerwithabrain View Post
During dating you also put on airs regarding money (at least I do). For example, if you go to a ball game on date I think it's appropriate to spend the $10 on drinks while in my personal life I likely wouldn't. (Or sneak it in.... )
Everyone, male and female, fakes it during dating, acting in ways that they believe will make them look more desirable. Women may take it very far, with boob jobs, crash diets to look good for special occasions, and a lot of money spent on hair, skin, nails, etc. I for one applaud this, as much of it is on their dime, and it does make them more attractive to most, though perhaps not all men.

For a man, once out of school, sex is rarely totally free, and all costs in, not often cheap. I think $10 spent on beers is a total steal. And if nothing comes of it, you at least have consumed a beer during a nice sunny afternoon with a pretty woman at the ballpark.

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 03:32 PM   #105
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Jose
Posts: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by jollystomper View Post
I haven't searched to find the source, but I heard a discussion on the radio on Sunday related to this discussion, on an all news station. It was said around 58% of couples who plan to get married do not discuss money or finances before the marriage. A few reason were given such as "afraid to scare the other person off", "wanting to keep some degree of privacy", etc. Interesting.
That definitely wouldn't be me. Finances would be one of the FIRST things to be discussed before starting down the marriage path.

For me, marriage would be just as much (if not more) a business/financial relationship as an emotional one.

A later poster asked if you would dump, or avoid, somebody you had feelings for if they had a bad financial picture. Sorry to say, yes I would. Nothing good could come of it otherwise. Assuming I'm able to (semi?) retire in a couple years, I will have viewed myself as working my entire life to become FI, and it's not my job to bail somebody out of their own financial predicaments - they're on their own on that one (that's where my theory on "yours", "mine", and "ours" finances comes into play, also).

Even if somebody went along with that, they really wouldn't. They'd get more and more upset that their financial picture was in the dumps and you were doing nothing to pay off their debts. Not a recipe for a happy relationship, so I wouldn't let myself get into that position in the first place. If they're bankrupt, deep in debt, etc, keep on walking.
__________________
LoneAspen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 04:10 PM   #106
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Everyone, male and female, fakes it during dating, acting in ways that they believe will make them look more desirable. Women may take it very far, with boob jobs, crash diets to look good for special occasions, and a lot of money spent on hair, skin, nails, etc. I for one applaud this, as much of it is on their dime, and it does make them more attractive to most, though perhaps not all men.

For a man, once out of school, sex is rarely totally free, and all costs in, not often cheap. I think $10 spent on beers is a total steal. And if nothing comes of it, you at least have consumed a beer during a nice sunny afternoon with a pretty woman at the ballpark.

Ha
I remember thinking the BLS statistics on single people were very interesting. Guys spend about $500 annually on alcohol, women about $200, but the difference is negated by women spending $500 annually on beauty care, while guys only spend about $200.
Single Women 2011

Single Men 2011
__________________
Arifriekinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 04:34 PM   #107
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Onward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
For a man, once out of school, sex is rarely totally free, and all costs in, not often cheap.
First Guy: "You ever pay for sex?"

Second Guy: "Yeah. I got a mortgage."

__________________
And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know.
Onward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 07:16 PM   #108
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
obgyn65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: midwestern city
Posts: 4,061
Can anyone please explain this joke ? I don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onward View Post

First Guy: "You ever pay for sex?"

Second Guy: "Yeah. I got a mortgage."

__________________
Very conservative with investments. Not ER'd yet, 48 years old. Please do not take anything I write or imply as legal, financial or medical advice directed to you. Contact your own financial advisor, healthcare provider, or attorney for financial, medical and legal advice.
obgyn65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 07:17 PM   #109
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
gauss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,708
Is it that he pays for a lot of sex?

-gauss
__________________
gauss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 07:38 PM   #110
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by obgyn65 View Post
Can anyone please explain this joke ?
You had to be there.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 08:25 PM   #111
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
You had to be there.
It was a lot easier when interest was high.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2013, 11:35 PM   #112
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
packrat44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: near Canadian border and near Mexican border
Posts: 1,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankerwithabrain View Post
OK - But let's say that a high maintenance girl (who was good in every other way) also came with a dowry of say $2m-$3m? Would you take that deal?

What number would it have to be.

It would be weird marrying someone wealthy and essentially making the last 10 years of frugal living moot. Not sure I could ever adjust my mind set or habits.
It is amazing how fast someone can burn through $2/$3M if they learned the art of spending with no limits from an early age.
__________________
Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. That's my story and I am sticking to it.
packrat44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 05:48 AM   #113
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jollystomper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankerwithabrain View Post
Even if you have the discussion right before deciding to get engaged - and she/he mentions that they have a significant amount of debt - would you walk away from someone you who you seemingly have deep feelings for?

During dating you also put on airs regarding money (at least I do). For example, if you go to a ball game on date I think it's appropriate to spend the $10 on drinks while in my personal life I likely wouldn't. (Or sneak it in.... )
For the first point above, the view I have is not so much the amount of debt but what they are planning to do about it. My DW had debt but acknowledged she wanted to do something about it, both asking for my guidance and following through on some of the suggestions I made.

For the 2nd point, I never did. Perhaps that was due to growing up with little or no money. Even at my Ivy League school I was never tempted to act/pretend I was richer than I was. It seemed too dangerous.

I'll always remember this incident in college. It was my 3rd or 4th date with DW, we weren't an "item" yet. There was a big event happening at another local college that weekend, and I had planned to take her, planning to pay for the expenses with my next paycheck. Come Friday I find that due to some problem I wouldn't be getting a check that weekend, the amount would be added to my next paycheck. I could have asked someone to loan me the money, but I always disliked doing that. Instead I told future DW that I didn't have the money and couldn't take her to the event, and would understand if she went with someone else (other guys had also asked her). Instead... she suggested "why don't we go somewhere else that doesn't cost anything?" So instead of going to the event we got food from the dining room and had a picnic and walked the trails of a nearby park. That is when I started to develop deeper feelings for her - it showed me she cared more about spending time with me than me spending my money on her.
__________________
Current target FIRE date: Under negotiation, can happen anytime.
jollystomper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 06:25 AM   #114
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_by_the_Bay View Post
It was a lot easier when interest was high.
It was even easier when everyone was high.
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 07:51 AM   #115
Moderator
Sarah in SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 13,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
It was even easier when everyone was high.
__________________
“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.”
Gerard Arthur Way

Sarah in SC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 08:24 AM   #116
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankerwithabrain View Post
It's a difficult thing to discuss I think. Especially things like current net worth. (Let's be honest, most of us talk more freely about our net worth on these forums than to any people in our non-virtual lives.)

Someone also mentioned earlier how "frugal" is considered "not sexy" to women.
Money priorities were discussed, but admittedly I mostly just paid close attention to how she behaved with money. At the time her income was half of mine, she was renting a room with a relative (close to her job) and I was definitely house-poor. At times a "big night on the town" was renting a movie, sending out for pizza, and a fire in the fireplace with wood I'd cut. If I'd had some overtime I'd spring for a bottle box of wine. But we both were sure that was a temporary condition as housing prices - and rent - were rising so it made more sense long-term to buy a house than to rent even if one's lifestyle was crimped for a few years.

A big issue with me was and is credit card debt, which I loathe. This is the 21st century and it would be difficult to manage without them, but we pay them off in full every month. Both of us are incredulous at so many apparently intelligent people paying cc interest on five figures of debt. It is, as my grandma used say "Not so bright".

And to me her income wasn't much of a factor, just that she did have a job that was steady and responsible. At the time she worked in a payroll office and if she didn't do her job people didn't get paid, with the resulting howls if that happened.

And she was looking for the same thing - responsibility and reliability. Almost 30 years later she still thinks I'm the "best thing that ever happened" to her.

Hopefully she'll never wise up.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 09:03 AM   #117
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 322
I've thought alot about this thread. Yesterday was my 13th anniversary and it was very sweet. Each stage of marriage is kind of different, because people change, circumstances change, little peeps are added. But I was motivated to answer, OP, because I was curious why a seemingly successful banker (with a BRAIN!) would post such a question online.

And so I nosey-ed (sic) into your old posts and stumbled onto your "Dreaming..." thread. That was a few years ago, and alot can change in a person in a few years time, especially around this stage in your life. Hopefully, when you look back on that thread, you wince, maybe even flush in the privacy of your home, and wish that you could delete those posts. Maybe not. But therein lies the answer to your question.

Because there are plenty of frugal girls out there. I consider myself one... though I wear Jimmy Choos. And sleep on Porthault linen. And mostly buy organic and local for my family.

If you want to look at the black and white: it's the bottom line (which I don't mean to sound pedantic b/c I am sure you know this better than I). If I make alot of money, then I can spend more than the average women, and still save alot.

But the key for you, in regards to the situation you describe in the OP, is what kind of person you are. B/c a woman who has worked her way through the educational system, society at large, achieved that job, and and on top of that, has values that can be described as frugal, will be of a particular character beyond just the money stuff. Does that make any sense?

Before DH and I were engaged, we never talked about money (2.5 mo). I guess we were busy talking about other things. (and for you dirty minded men...no, we weren't doing other things) But in that period of time, you still get a good idea of what someone is like.

In my line of work (medicine), residency programs interview prospective applicants for a full day before choosing. Interview is probably the most important aspect of your application, esp. for the subsurgical specialties because you will be spending 80-100 hours a week with this person, in oftentimes very stressful and demanding situations. And throw in sleep deprivation, healthy food deprivation, and good exercise deprivation, and well, the worst in people truly come out. So programs want to be sure they are getting someone good.

I always thought that salesmen and people like bankers were good people people. And in my younger days, thought medicine was great cause I just do the medicine stuff and don't have to "deal" with people. HAH!

I guess this is my long way of saying that it is not so much "finding" the beautiful woman who is also frugal and makes alot money. Because she is out there, in multiples. I can almost guarantee you have met at least one or more of her. And she has looked at you, listened to you, and studied you.
But are you the "right" man for her?
__________________
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 04:30 PM   #118
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 78
Thanks for your response, although I don't think you really added much to the conversation. (Except for insults.)

I don't know why you think posting something like this to the internet is so foolish? I find the internet to be a great place to speak with like minded people. I don't think I am the smartest person in the world - and even if were - you can always gain from the insight of others. Especially others who may have more experience than you.

I find that in the non-virtual world, it is sometimes difficult to have "real" conversations with people. It is gauche to discuss financial matters with most acquaintances. So alas I turn to the good people on ER.

In regard to my previous thread, I still believe what I wrote was in jest and that it shouldn't have been taken so seriously (if that is what you are referring to?) I do cringe to see that I had a goal of $1.2m by 30 but only made it to $600k.

That is a perfect example of a thread which helped me become smarter and frame life in a better perspective. At that point in my career I was killing myself for money. I woke up and found a job for the last few years that I actually enjoy more, have more free time, and am only paid slightly less (compared to a starting salary there at least).

Your last point of finding many quality women is easy, but that I have to fix myself, is basically just insulting. You barely know me, except that I am inquisitive and hope to learn from others on the internet. Oh yeah, also that I might have made a joke that some considered in poor taste once. (Let's be honest, most people who tell jokes occasionally walk on a very thin line. See Joan Rivers (whom i detest and think crosses the line too frequently.)
__________________
Bankerwithabrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 05:51 PM   #119
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankerwithabrain View Post
Your last point of finding many quality women is easy, but that I have to fix myself, is basically just insulting.
I thought your posts were fine. I didn't get the whole wince, flush and want to delete your posts jabs either, and besides insulting, thought they were condescending and just plain weird.
__________________
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 07:57 PM   #120
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort View Post
I thought your posts were fine. I didn't get the whole wince, flush and want to delete your posts jabs either, and besides insulting, thought they were condescending and just plain weird.
BWAB,
I am very sorry as clearly I poorly communicated my intent. I apologize if my response implied you need to change because there is no way I could know or even determine this. I do not know you at all. All I know of you are your posts that I have read on this forum.
The wince flush delete comments referred to not one of your posts on this thread. I was referencing your comments on the Dreaming thread, and as you indicate that you see nothing wrong with them, then please disregard my comments as opinion.
I should probably not have even referenced them, though in my mind, different pics of a person do (often) connect.

To clarify, I do not think finding a quality woman is easy. Neither a quality man. But I do believe that a quality woman is not a rara avis. But I do not believe there is anything easy or simple about it.

Neither do I think your OP was at all foolish. For all we know, it may be the actual way you find your life's partner.

What I did find was curious, as in arousing interest. Enough to interest me to
read your other posts.

And that, along with your reply... I will sign off as I do not want to further offend. Please know that I was trying to help, though clearly misguided.

I think it is wonderful when person has a good soul mate. Good luck to you.
__________________

__________________
P.S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:45 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.