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Old 06-11-2013, 10:29 PM   #121
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Thanks for your response, although I don't think you really added much to the conversation. (Except for insults.)


In regard to my previous thread, I still believe what I wrote was in jest and that it shouldn't have been taken so seriously (if that is what you are referring to?) I do cringe to see that I had a goal of $1.2m by 30 but only made it to $600k.

Oh yeah, also that I might have made a joke that some considered in poor taste once. (Let's be honest, most people who tell jokes occasionally walk on a very thin line. See Joan Rivers (whom i detest and think crosses the line too frequently.)
Welcome to the forum consisting heavily of us Insulting Engineers, or is that Consulting? Never mind, it doesn't matter. Give a joke, take a joke. Life is too short to take things overly serious (except for choosing a good spouse).

When I was your age I was looking for good spouse. The woman I chose impressed me with her (and her whole family's) strong family values and work ethics. When you marry a woman, you do not just marry her, but the entire family. Choose wisely. It is the biggest and most important investment you will ever make.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:49 PM   #122
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Money priorities were discussed, but admittedly I mostly just paid close attention to how she behaved with money.
Were you folks older or something? You mostly paid attention to how she behaved with money? In our teens while courting, I only paid attention to DW2B's attitude about my "needs." Now in our 60's, we're starting to get over that......... slowly......... Can't ever remember focusing on her behavior with money.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:54 PM   #123
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Everyone, male and female, fakes it during dating,
I've heard of women "faking it" during dating, but not so much men. And I think wives are more prone to "faking it" than husbands.
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Old 06-12-2013, 01:31 PM   #124
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I've heard this before and always thought the punchline implied that he had sex with a woman, and as a result fell in love, married her, and they ended up with a mortgage on a house. But I tend not to see the really crass sides of jokes until someone, usually in pitying fashion, points them out to me.

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First Guy: "You ever pay for sex?"

Second Guy: "Yeah. I got a mortgage."

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Old 06-12-2013, 01:36 PM   #125
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I am afraid this comes across as "all women are actually prostitutes, who will only provide sex if you pay for stuff, and therefore all you have to do is divine the woman's price and sex will follow."

I encountered this male attitude while dating, and didn't like it. "I paid for XYZ, now when are YOU going to come across, Amethyst?" "Funny, you were the one who asked me out and offered to pay. I didn't realize I was expected to 'pay in kind.' Get lost!")

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Everyone, male and female, fakes it during dating, acting in ways that they believe will make them look more desirable. Women may take it very far, with boob jobs, crash diets to look good for special occasions, and a lot of money spent on hair, skin, nails, etc. I for one applaud this, as much of it is on their dime, and it does make them more attractive to most, though perhaps not all men.

For a man, once out of school, sex is rarely totally free, and all costs in, not often cheap. I think $10 spent on beers is a total steal. And if nothing comes of it, you at least have consumed a beer during a nice sunny afternoon with a pretty woman at the ballpark.

Ha
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Old 06-12-2013, 02:13 PM   #126
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"Men play at love to get sex. Women play at sex to get love."

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Old 06-12-2013, 05:45 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
I am afraid this comes across as "all women are actually prostitutes, who will only provide sex if you pay for stuff, and therefore all you have to do is divine the woman's price and sex will follow."

I encountered this male attitude while dating, and didn't like it. "I paid for XYZ, now when are YOU going to come across, Amethyst?" "Funny, you were the one who asked me out and offered to pay. I didn't realize I was expected to 'pay in kind.' Get lost!")

A.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:50 AM   #128
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I support Amethyst.
That joke stings and definitely does not apply to all women. We had a dating pool in which both me & my DH (then Boyfriend) contributed equal amount on monthly basis. That money was used for date meals / movies and even gas since he used to drive me around long distances in his bike. I have been competent and capable enough since age 22 to make my own money and manage in that. So even though I am not gainfully employed any longer to take care of home & kids (joint decision) I do not feel emotionally or financially dependent. (Well I contributed plenty to our saving during employed and stay at home years).

But yes I accept that unfortunately some women do expect to be taken care of and fail to carry their weight or make a decent contribution to the family.

And yes I have opened / closed doors for Men plenty of times and did actually propose marriage :-)

-DesiGirl
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:26 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
I am afraid this comes across as "all women are actually prostitutes, who will only provide sex if you pay for stuff, and therefore all you have to do is divine the woman's price and sex will follow."

I encountered this male attitude while dating, and didn't like it. "I paid for XYZ, now when are YOU going to come across, Amethyst?" "Funny, you were the one who asked me out and offered to pay. I didn't realize I was expected to 'pay in kind.' Get lost!")

A.
I think Amethyst is right about the quote but it brings up an interesting cultural issue. There was a brief, shinning moment back in the late 60s, early 70s when women shared dating expenses (at least in my circles). But, that seems to have quickly died out. By the time my son got into dating it was back to the tradition of the guy pays. And as far as I can see, it stays that way until couples move in together regardless who makes more money. It's no wonder that young single women can save up for a condo while their male peers are living like paupers. The up side is that, when they do settle down, a lot more guys these days are happy with their ladies bringing home the bigger slab of bacon.

Edit: when I re-entered the dating scene after my divorce, in the late 70s early 80s, things were already basically back to the traditional guy pays tradition. I didn't mind on initial dates but after a few weeks I would begin to resent failure to reciprocate by a woman who made substantially more than me. Usually things started to even out a bit after a few weeks but a lot of women I met wouldn't dream of offering to chip in.
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:29 AM   #130
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....when I re-entered the dating scene after my divorce, in the late 70s early 80s, things were already basically back to the traditional guy pays tradition. I didn't mind on initial dates but after a few weeks I would begin to resent failure to reciprocate by a woman who made substantially more than me. Usually things started to even out a bit after a few weeks but a lot of women I met wouldn't dream of offering to chip in.
Fortunately you could then easily weed out the women who didn't share your fiscal feelings! (I think they sound ungenerous and self-centered besides the fiscal part of it.)
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:07 PM   #131
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I support Amethyst.
That joke stings and definitely does not apply to all women. We had a dating pool in which both me & my DH (then Boyfriend) contributed equal amount on monthly basis. That money was used for date meals / movies and even gas since he used to drive me around long distances in his bike. I have been competent and capable enough since age 22 to make my own money and manage in that. So even though I am not gainfully employed any longer to take care of home & kids (joint decision) I do not feel emotionally or financially dependent. (Well I contributed plenty to our saving during employed and stay at home years).

But yes I accept that unfortunately some women do expect to be taken care of and fail to carry their weight or make a decent contribution to the family.

And yes I have opened / closed doors for Men plenty of times and did actually propose marriage :-)

-DesiGirl
But who paid at the beginning? Your spouse?
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:13 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by haha View Post
Everyone, male and female, fakes it during dating, acting in ways that they believe will make them look more desirable. Women may take it very far, with boob jobs, crash diets to look good for special occasions, and a lot of money spent on hair, skin, nails, etc. I for one applaud this, as much of it is on their dime, and it does make them more attractive to most, though perhaps not all men.

For a man, once out of school, sex is rarely totally free, and all costs in, not often cheap. I think $10 spent on beers is a total steal. And if nothing comes of it, you at least have consumed a beer during a nice sunny afternoon with a pretty woman at the ballpark.

Ha
I think people just do what they do, in order to get what they want. In order to get sex, many men do wine and dine women, and in order to get "things" via sex, some women do the stuff you mention here, I think. Yeah, if sex is what a man is after, it probably doesn't come cheap unless he has no standards.
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:40 PM   #133
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But who paid at the beginning? Your spouse?
I paid for half the dates from the start. My husband said I was the only girl he dated who paid for half. I picked up the check for every other date.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:28 PM   #134
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I paid for half the dates from the start. My husband said I was the only girl he dated who paid for half. I picked up the check for every other date.
My sentiment exactly. Most women I know don't.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:37 PM   #135
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I paid for half the dates from the start. My husband said I was the only girl he dated who paid for half. I picked up the check for every other date.
That was decades ago. I hope times have changed since then. Since we were making the same income I would not have felt right having him pay for everything.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:56 PM   #136
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That was decades ago. I hope times have changed since then. Since we were making the same income I would not have felt right having him pay for everything.
At least where I'm from, the norm down here for teens is buying your own food out on dates, unless someone is adamantly for paying, but that switches between the guys and girls about evenly. Seems to hold true for people a few years older than me as well, my boyfriend is in his early 20s and had similar experiences when dating. My data is a couple of years old as far as personal experiences go, but the trends haven't changed too drastically I bet :P

When the date-buying is one sided, it seems that the very high-maintenance partner is the one who doesn't pay, but it seems like a decent trade-off, while they spend hours and tons of money getting their bodies waxed, hair done, nails done, makeup done for every date, so they're paying for that part. But even then, those behaviors were common among both guys and girls.

The notion of guys buying women seems a bit better left with older generations.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:07 PM   #137
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Our Money, Sex & Love survey illustrates that the question of who pays has gotten complicated.
  • Almost two-thirds of men, especially younger ones, said they want women to chip in after a few dates.
  • Forty-four percent of women are bothered if a man expects them to help pay.
  • Fifty-seven percent of women, especially younger ones, always offer to pay (even on the first date), but 34 percent of them are bothered if a man accepts — and 46 percent are bothered if he refuses.
It's complicated: Who pays on dates - Business - Personal finance | NBC News
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:18 PM   #138
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The notion of guys buying women seems a bit better left with older generations.

I'm a card carrying member of the "older generation" and not so sure the older generation sees it as you imagine. At least not amongst our friends and aquaintances. We can't envision young men shouldering costs for dates and events single handedly. And that practice is unfair for the young women. Men paying for dates simply institutionalizes outdated sexist concepts such as men needing to earn more, only men needing to register for the draft, etc.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:38 PM   #139
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I'm a card carrying member of the "older generation" and not so sure the older generation sees it as you imagine. At least not amongst our friends and aquaintances. We can't envision young men shouldering costs for dates and events single handedly. And that practice is unfair for the young women. Men paying for dates simply institutionalizes outdated sexist concepts such as men needing to earn more, only men needing to register for the draft, etc.
I think I worded that wrong I just meant it's more common for people who grew up in a world that promoted that to engage in it, so those folks who like it can continue doing, but the idea is best left with them so it doesn't accidentally carry onto future generations. So I didn't mean they like it, but I meant they do it more often.

Now we're are getting closer to military equality as well as social. Like in the post, paying $15 to get your nails done, $20 to get your hair done, and $30 to get waxes every time the date happens isn't something that just the woman does, but something the more high maintenance person does, but guys of previous generations are less likely to make themselves up than guys in mine.

But guys in those generations were more likely to pay through food and drinks. Now that's equalizing, so both groups are having to do what they may not want to much less. I paid more often when dating guys who worked to do their hair nice, had a fresh manicure, etc, because I did enjoy that part very much, and I know it costs them, and I sure as heck don't like doing those things myself :P
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:23 PM   #140
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I was in the dating pool till my very late 30's... so longer than most. My rule of thumb was whoever asked the other out, paid. That said - if the guy asked, and he was less than wonderful on the date (first date)... I *INSISTED* on paying my share... because I wanted ZERO blowback that he was somehow entitled to anything because he'd bought me dinner or paid for my movie ticket.

For the most part it worked out pretty evenly... my husband (when he was my boyfriend) had season hockey tickets - so he'd invite me to that - and pay... When I dragged him to the latest movie I wanted to see, I paid. Big splurges were going to see live music - and typically whoever was more interested bought the tickets - and we'd take turns buying drinks (if it was at a bar.) But we were both LBYM types - so most dates were fairly inexpensive. Doing an art walk (free), going hiking (free), going out on his boat (cost of gas on him, picnic on me).
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