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Old 09-15-2016, 02:33 PM   #121
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I'm sure that's true in general but there seems to be quite a few people around here who get more in government assistance because of their kids than what they spend on their kids. Kids don't have to be THAT expensive especially if you aren't paying commercial daycare costs. Education is nearly free, healthcare is cheap unless they have a rare chronic condition, clothes can be second hand, food is minimal if you are just making slightly larger helpings of what you would eat anyway. No kid needs 90% of the toys that they have.
I think your oversimplifying the cost of kids

At 56,500 per year kids make it a lot more difficult to Max save for retirement

And the point is that most families live paycheck to paycheck making 56,500 per year so if you have $1 million saved that means you're just going to struggle in retirement
Unless you want to live like Mr. mustache
So it shouldn't be a surprise that the op is not impressed with himself having $1 million saved
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:38 PM   #122
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I think your oversimplifying the cost of kids

At 56,500 per year kids make it a lot more difficult to Max save for retirement

And the point is that most families live paycheck to paycheck making 56,500 per year so if you have $1 million saved that means you're just going to struggle in retirement
Unless you want to live like Mr. mustache
So it shouldn't be a surprise that the op is not impressed with himself having $1 million saved
I would LOVE to live like MMM. He has way more money than me and spends more money than me.
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:47 PM   #123
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Are you advocating that $1M is not worth celebrating given the lower-middle class wage that it practically guarantees without lifting a finger for the rest of your life?

As I said previously, there's a very large portion of Americans, certainly more than half, that would take that in a heartbeat. Thus I've always thought it was worth celebrating. Then again, I'd tell you life is too short to wonder if you should celebrate something. Overcelebrate life!
It's definitely a nice milestone and for people that have the income to save $1 million they realize that they're about halfway there

So it doesn't surprise me that a lot of people are not excited about having 1 million
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:02 PM   #124
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I would LOVE to live like MMM. He has way more money than me and spends more money than me.
Yes Mr. Money mustache is a multimillionaire and I guess we'll never know what he really spends

Just remember that Mr. Money mustache is not real it's just a product And his followers are his customers

There's a funny video on CBS MarketWatch you can see it on YouTube of a Mr. mustache gathering in San Francisco . They interview millennial's who think that they're going to retire at age 30 it's really funny
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:15 PM   #125
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A reminder to be careful with quotes, and use the edit post function to correct broken or mis-quotes.
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:45 PM   #126
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Yes Mr. Money mustache is a multimillionaire and I guess we'll never know what he really spends

Just remember that Mr. Money mustache is not real it's just a product And his followers are his customers

There's a funny video on CBS MarketWatch you can see it on YouTube of a Mr. mustache gathering in San Francisco . They interview millennial's who think that they're going to retire at age 30 it's really funny
It's possible to retire at 30. Get a software engineer job like MMM and save 70-ish% of your income for 8 years then quit. Then just live a reasonable life instead of extravagant and you're all good. You could maybe do a little freelancing every once in a while for extra money. People here do that all the time and still say they are retired. Having a spouse with another $100K/yr job makes it easy.
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:49 PM   #127
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FWIW, given the cost of the lifestyle we enjoy and plan to continue, $1M is just enough (along with some small pensions and SS) to continue living 'well'. So yeah, we celebrated and I turned in my notice ... FIRE'd in early November.

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Old 09-15-2016, 04:19 PM   #128
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It's possible to retire at 30. Get a software engineer job like MMM and save 70-ish% of your income for 8 years then quit. Then just live a reasonable life instead of extravagant and you're all good. You could maybe do a little freelancing every once in a while for extra money. People here do that all the time and still say they are retired. Having a spouse with another $100K/yr job makes it easy.
Yes I agree it's possible

This thread seems to apply more to the millionaire next door crowd

The millionaire next door isn't going to go buy a JetSki when he gets to 1 million.
Drink a glass of wine or beer and then go back to work
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Old 09-15-2016, 05:03 PM   #129
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FWIW, given the cost of the lifestyle we enjoy and plan to continue, $1M is just enough (along with some small pensions and SS) to continue living 'well'. So yeah, we celebrated and I turned in my notice ... FIRE'd in early November.

Congratulations that's awesome .
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Old 09-15-2016, 06:07 PM   #130
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A household at the income level of 56,500 per year is not going to come close to saving $1 million in retirement accounts During a working career

Unless They live in a van down by the river or follow Mr. mustache And drive a 10-year old. Beater and live in a tiny house for the rest of their lives . Or maybe live in someone's basement

That's a lower middle-class wage Yes the stories of the struggling middle class are true

But typically in this early retirement.org community people will start talking about how the middle-class over spends and they shouldn't buy iPhones and Starbucks And the wonderful phenomenon of shareholder value economics and globalization Low wage Math is somehow ignored

Achieving $1 million in investable assets just isn't a big deal Because that only produces a lower middle-class wage

Get to $2 million and now you're talking solid math
The idea that $1 million in investable assets only produces a lower middle class wage is not necessarily true. It would depend on how much risk one would want to take . I personally would not want to take the risk necessary to get it done. I could get way over 56k no problem. 100k, big problem.
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Old 09-15-2016, 06:37 PM   #131
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The idea that $1 million in investable assets only produces a lower middle class wage is not necessarily true. It would depend on how much risk one would want to take . I personally would not want to take the risk necessary to get it done. I could get way over 56k no problem. 100k, big problem.
If I had $ only 1 million to work with I would try and live off of 30 to 40,000 a year and then grow the principal

I wouldn't even attempt to get to 50,000 a year as a withdrawal rate
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Old 09-15-2016, 07:11 PM   #132
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If I had $ only 1 million to work with I would try and live off of 30 to 40,000 a year and then grow the principal

I wouldn't even attempt to get to 50,000 a year as a withdrawal rate
I would not use 50k as a withdrawal rate either. I would however take the $1 million and use it to generate the 50k. It's a very simple matter for me. There would be plenty of money leftover for future growth. I am not judging you purple sky for what you wrote above. What you wrote would work fine. I would do it differently however, that's all.
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Old 09-15-2016, 07:34 PM   #133
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If I had $ only 1 million to work with I would try and live off of 30 to 40,000 a year and then grow the principal

I wouldn't even attempt to get to 50,000 a year as a withdrawal rate
This is pretty much what I'm doing with my $780K portfolio, though I'm being a little more conservative. Withdrawals have been constant at $15,600 for the last 5 years, but I'm thinking of increasing them a little to ~18K (a WR of 2.3%) which should still be sustainable, and hopefully allow for modest growth over the long term.
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Old 09-15-2016, 07:50 PM   #134
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I would not use 50k as a withdrawal rate either. I would however take the $1 million and use it to generate the 50k. It's a very simple matter for me. There would be plenty of money leftover for future growth. I am not judging you purple sky for what you wrote above. What you wrote would work fine. I would do it differently however, that's all.
Yeah that's kind of what I meant Use the 1 million to produce income

You can definitely Live well-off 50,000 a year

But the jump to 100,000 a year definitely helps big time so that's why I mentioned the $2 million target
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Old 09-15-2016, 08:20 PM   #135
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This is pretty much what I'm doing with my $780K portfolio, though I'm being a little more conservative. Withdrawals have been constant at $15,600 for the last 5 years, but I'm thinking of increasing them a little to ~18K (a WR of 2.3%) which should still be sustainable, and hopefully allow for modest growth over the long term.
That sounds very doable

If the stock market cooperates you should be able to grow that $780,000 for sure
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Old 09-16-2016, 06:02 AM   #136
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I'm sure that's true in general but there seems to be quite a few people around here who get more in government assistance because of their kids than what they spend on their kids. Kids don't have to be THAT expensive especially if you aren't paying commercial daycare costs. Education is nearly free, healthcare is cheap unless they have a rare chronic condition, clothes can be second hand, food is minimal if you are just making slightly larger helpings of what you would eat anyway. No kid needs 90% of the toys that they have.
What about housing costs? I live in a studio apartment, barely big enough for one person to live in, not 2 or 3 people. Bigger housing such as a 2-bedroom or 3-bedroom apartment would be costlier, whether it is rent or a bigger mortgage along with higher property taxes, more home furnishings, and utilities. Even if per-capita costs are lower than for one person, the total costs will be higher.
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:52 PM   #137
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Yeah with three kids under 12 right now, a million falls well short for us to ER, but it's San Diego. I think 2 million will be the number that gets me really excited, as that will be when we could make it if we really had to. We'd like to be in the 3-4 range before we both quit earning completely, however. Our high income friends think that's a far too risky, poverty wage NW for their comfort. I just can't believe the numbers they are coming up with - 7,8,9,10, 20 million, even!
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Old 09-16-2016, 03:00 PM   #138
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I would not use 50k as a withdrawal rate either. I would however take the $1 million and use it to generate the 50k. It's a very simple matter for me. There would be plenty of money leftover for future growth. I am not judging you purple sky for what you wrote above. What you wrote would work fine. I would do it differently however, that's all.
My bold....please tell us your simple secret on making a safe $50K per year on $1MM.

I know that's a 5% return but I can't seem to find anything that pays that much except for preferred stocks and junk bonds. Also, is that simple $50K after tax money?
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Old 09-16-2016, 03:13 PM   #139
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My bold....please tell us your simple secret on making a safe $50K per year on $1MM.

I know that's a 5% return but I can't seem to find anything that pays that much except for preferred stocks and junk bonds. Also, is that simple $50K after tax money?
Agreed - and in particular, $50K/yr, every single year, for a 30 or 40 year period.
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Old 09-16-2016, 03:49 PM   #140
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Agreed - and in particular, $50K/yr, every single year, for a 30 or 40 year period.

Firecalc default settings gives this a 98% chance of success. 72% if inflation adjusted.
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