Motivation: Man works himself to death

[DJRR]

Wow, check out this story Big in Japan: Man works himself to death, company compensates wife - Gadling

The Japanese even have a word for working yourself to death and companies are being sued to provide compensation.

I guess they did not read the FIRE board

[Meadbh]

This has been a well known phenomenon in Japan for many years, unfortunately. There is tremendous pressure to conform and the work ethic is beyond anything seen in North America. Even high school students have been known to die of karoshi and suicides are relatively common due to the pressures put on them from parents and teachers.

It's better to have a balance!

[Milton]

What dedictated employees! If I was interested in auto companines, I would consider buying shares in Toyota.

[Goonie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh There is tremendous pressure to conform and the work ethic is beyond anything seen in North America.

I'm soooooo thankful that I'm a non-conformist with NO work ethic!

[travelover]

When I worked for MegaMotors, I worked 30 consecutive 18 hours days, once. It got so I was basically incoherent at the end of the day. Glad I lived through it.

[jambo101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelover When I worked for MegaMotors, I worked 30 consecutive 18 hours days, once. It got so I was basically incoherent at the end of the day. Glad I lived through it.

Ever read a book by Ben Hamper called Rivethead? Rivethead: Tales from the Assembly Line. - book reviews Monthly Review - Find Articles
Its about tales from the assembly lines at GM,basically how workers deal with boring ,monotonous,drudgery laden jobs,as a participant in this kind of job it had me laughing hysterically.Although in my job we move milk instead of cars the tricks games and antics the workers get up to are the same

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambo101 Ever read a book by Ben Hamper called Rivethead? Rivethead: Tales from the Assembly Line. - book reviews Monthly Review - Find Articles Its about tales from the assembly lines at GM,basically how workers deal with boring ,monotonous,drudgery laden jobs,as a participant in this kind of job it had me laughing hysterically.Although in my job we move milk instead of cars the tricks games and antics the workers get up to are the same

Yes, I've read it. In my case I was working on a design issue that was holding up a new vehicle launch - millions of dollars per day at risk. Just a little more stress than Rivethead.

This book is a good read to understand what it was like working in the assembly plants in the 1980s and 1990s. Things have changed dramatically, there, too.

[layla17]

That is incredulous. I can't imagine what type of conditions and pressure would make someone work themselves to death.

[tightasadrum]

A short related story.

In the late 1980's the company I worked for purchased an interest in a small manufacturing company in Yokohama, Japan. Not too long afterward I was part of a team that travel to the plant to launch a new product to be sold in the US market. We worked with our counterparts to develop the manufacturing plan that the new product would be manufactured, inspected and tested under.

One late evening, after exposing a number of problems that required additional work to complete, we broke for the evening. Our hosts insisted that we all go out to eat together followed later with riotous drinking and cavorting, carried out mostly by our hosts. Needless to say we were all very late getting to sleep.

The next morning the US team arrived at the plant around 8am, the arrival timed to miss the morning exercises in the parking lot. We met our Japanese hosts from the previous evening in the conference room where no one looked particularly chipper. Here's the shocker: when we opened up our notes from the previous evening, we were presented with a complete list of solutions to the problems we had left incompleted the evening before! Sometime between our departure from the bar and our arrival at the plant at 8:00am the following morning, our Japanese friends had solved all the problems and were ready to begin reviewing the next phase of the process. Needless to say, I was impressed.

We worked together several other times through the years with these same people, both in the US and in Japan, and I was always impressed with their intelligence and hard work. I asked one fellow I worked with a great deal why he smoked and drank so much. He told me that it was the only way to survive the stress of work. No doubt!

Although I haven't seen any of them in years, I really did like all of them on a personal level. I hope they have survived.

[LiveWell]

Why is this such a surprise? People all over the world work themselves to death all the time. Heart attacks, strokes, stress, etc... not to mention people who have dangerous professions (police, firefighters, military) or unhealthy workplaces (chemists, nuclear engineers).

[Milton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tightasadrum The next morning the US team arrived at the plant around 8am, the arrival timed to miss the morning exercises in the parking lot. We met our Japanese hosts from the previous evening in the conference room where no one looked particularly chipper. Here's the shocker: when we opened up our notes from the previous evening, we were presented with a complete list of solutions to the problems we had left incompleted the evening before! Sometime between our departure from the bar and our arrival at the plant at 8:00am the following morning, our Japanese friends had solved all the problems and were ready to begin reviewing the next phase of the process. Needless to say, I was impressed. We worked together several other times through the years with these same people, both in the US and in Japan, and I was always impressed with their intelligence and hard work.

Unless there was some true urgency, I don't understand the decision to work all night. And if there it was an urgent situation, I don't understand why they would choose to go out drinking the previous evening.

Hard work? Sure. Intelligence? Not apparent from this example.

[tightasadrum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milton Unless there was some true urgency, I don't understand the decision to work all night. And if there it was an urgent situation, I don't understand why they would choose to go out drinking the previous evening. Hard work? Sure. Intelligence? Not apparent from this example.

I wouldn't say that it was urgent, other than the fact that we were only in town for about a week. I think the motivation came from their plant manager. When he whistled, they barked. I'm only guessing here, since we didn't witness any exchanges, but here is my mental picture of what probably happened.

At the end of the day PM called his engineering manager to his office for a summary of what was accomplished that day. EM told PM about the "problems" which would be looked at in their environment as an embarassment, losing face, for the EM and the entire operation. Mistakes and errors just were not acceptable. To save face, EM volunteers to have it corrected before the start of work the next day. That way, no time is lost, and their reputation is restored. All this goes on in the background. To the US team in just looks like uber-efficiency.

Of course the poor guys cranking out the solutions probably put in an 80-hour workweek. And I expect the fellows who went out to dinner etc. were not the same ones that worked on the problem, but I really don't know this for sure. They were all working hard by the time we arrived at 8:00am.

[Milton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tightasadrum Of course the poor guys cranking out the solutions probably put in an 80-hour workweek.

Sooner them than you or me.

Personally, I'd rather lose face than lose sleep!

[layla17]

People might indirectly work themselves to death, but I've never actually heard of someone working himself to death.

[accountingsucks]

The article indicates that he worked 80 hours of OT a month...that is 20 per week or about a 60 hour work week....that is alot but I think at a manager level it is not that unreasonable...that is working one day on the weekend and staying until 7ish during the weekdays. Not something I would like certainly, but it's not enough to warrant a lawsuit. In my experiences alot of these workaholics are extremely inefficient at what they do and need to work the extra hours to keep up.

[TickTock]

It is interesting that time on task seems to be regarded more highly than results, doesn't it?

[BunsGettingFirm]

Sixty hours of work a week shouldn't kill anybody. I regularly put in 13-hour days, but 2.5 hours of those are for studying after work, and 1.5 hour is for exercise after the studying. I find the schedule long but not stressful because 4 hours of that schedule is self-directed.

The problem comes from the stress of having people harangue you because of the delay in project XYZ is causing "millions" of dollars lost per day. What they don't tell you is that the "millions" of dollars lost per day are based on the best-case assumption that the sales guys close every deal that they pursue and that the actual sales hit the most optimistic sales forecast. Yeah, that happens in real life on every project. It's funny that raises aren't calculated using the most advantageous inputs such as 15% inflation and your discovering cold fusion thus saving the company $500 million in electricity cost.

[RobertInOhio]

This sounds like the "Republican Retirement Plan for Non-Rich Americans".

Now I am off to the pharmacy to get my happy pills refilled so I can look forward to what happened to this poor schmuck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJRR Wow, check out this story Big in Japan: Man works himself to death, company compensates wife - Gadling The Japanese even have a word for working yourself to death and companies are being sued to provide compensation. I guess they did not read the FIRE board

[Buddha44]

I doubt that 80 hours OT per month is the actual OT hours he worked. It is only what he documented. Unfortunately, there is peer pressure to stay late even though he himself may not have to work late and there is also pressure to not document how much time he actually stayed since no one does either. It is certainly getting better than it was 10 to 15 years ago but the pressure is still there. I know many colleagues who work regularly until 3am.

As for drinking after being told there was a problem, it would generally be considered rude to not entertain guests, certainly guests flying in from a different country. My guess is that they told their subordinates to get cracking on it and that it would be reviewed after they got back from dinner/drinking/karaoke/hostess bar, whatever time that might be. What is funny is that you could have realized that and declined dinner but that would also be perceived as rude, even though you are doing it for their benefit, so it is a dance to have dinner and drinks and leave at a reasonable hour without offending them, knowing that they are going back to work.

[Bimmerbill]

My motto is: Working is for suckers.
I certainly won't work myself to death!