Mr MM Explains the Why of FIRE

[REWahoo]

Sorry FUEGO - the retirement police object to SAHD/SAHMs calling themselves retired. So you and I don't qualify. LOL.

Hey, you can proudly call yourself a "kept woman" or a "kept man"! That's a gig I would have loved to have had but wasn't smart enough to figure out how to pull it off. Well done!

 

[Calico]

....My guess is that few of the extreme MM acolytes will end up happy over the long term with the trade offs they're promoting. Soon enough they'll discover the truth that just like everything else in life cutting spending is not immune to the law of diminishing returns.

Probably the first time they transport their 2-year-old to daycare on the back of their bicycle on a snowy morning. Reality has a way of smacking you in the face when kids come along.

 

[Bestwifeever]

It could be worse - - you could enjoy sitting on the couch playing video games.

For some reason, sitting on a couch playing video games is considered to be worse than watching TV, and sitting on a couch reading is considered to be comparatively virtuous no matter what you are reading.

But it's all sitting. I don't know anybody that doesn't sit for a while every day even though most of us should be exercising more.

It's okay to be sitting on our couches and comfy chairs as long as we are "writing our blogs" and counting our clicks for adsense; then we might sort of meet the standards of the new retirement paradigm (feel free to start a blog called The New Retirement Paradigm, btw).

 

[Accidental Retiree]

Hey, you can proudly call yourself a "kept woman" or a "kept man"! That's a gig I would have loved to have had but wasn't smart enough to figure out how to pull it off. Well done!

Rodi's managing the family portfolio. Who's keeping whom? ;-)


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Elbata]

Yeah. Not one postive comment about the article. Proud of you guys.

 

[HadEnuff]

I have hobbies that theoretically could be monetized, but then, they wouldn't be hobbies, would they? I can't tell you how many times I've heard, regarding my hobbies (writing, cooking, winemaking)..."When you retire you should open a ______ or write a _______."

Then they have to hear me explain the difference between retirement and a career change.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Yeah. Not one postive comment about the article. Proud of you guys.

what's positive about it?

 

[Walt34]

I have hobbies that theoretically could be monetized, but then, they wouldn't be hobbies, would they? I can't tell you how many times I've heard, regarding my hobbies (writing, cooking, winemaking)..."When you retire you should open a ______ or write a _______."

I've heard that too about my photography hobby and picture framing. I actually thought about it some and bought some books on the subject of running a photography business and that took the notion out of my head.

Very few people could afford what [-]I'd charge[/-] I'm worth.

 

[aja8888]

I've heard that too about my photography hobby and picture framing. I actually thought about it some and bought some books on the subject of running a photography business and that took the notion out of my head.

Very few people could afford what [-]I'd charge[/-] I'm worth.

I had a friend that ran a photography business. Lost his butt, then opened a laundromat. Both businesses fit in with his third business of placing and operating food and beverage vending machines. He tried all those businesses shortly after he retired from ARCO. I'd love to know how much money he lost during the short time he tried all that stuff.

 

[highlow65]

I think some people on mmm do just fine, and with low incomes in America today a lot of people had better learn to do without luxury items, and if it works for them great, I love my expensive cable and cell phones, I realize they are toys but I can afford them and have no plans to go without them, I don't wish to ride a bike and I like heat and air conditioning . I could relatively safely retire today , but I own my business and answer to myself. So while work is a constant I do have a choice. I mostly answer to myself.

 

[harley]

I've heard that too about my photography hobby and picture framing. I actually thought about it some and bought some books on the subject of running a photography business and that took the notion out of my head.

Very few people could afford what [-]I'd charge[/-] I'm worth.

I have a buddy who is an amazing amateur photographer, does a lot of work at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Arlington. He always tells people he charges $10K to do a wedding. So far nobody has taken him up, to his delight.

DW started a couple of businesses after we FIREd because she felt like she should be "doing" something. She loved the activities (hypnotherapy and Reiki), but hated the "running the business" side of it, even with me doing the taxes. She finally let the businesses die, and continues working with people on a "pay it forward" basis. She's much happier that way.

 

[Calico]

Yeah. Not one postive comment about the article. Proud of you guys.

What an extremely odd thing to say.

Why on earth would we care if you are "proud" of us? Do you spend a lot of time worrying about whether we are "proud" of you?

 

[Bestwifeever]

I do like to knit but was taken aback by someone who suggested I knit sweaters for her two little boys. She would buy the yarn and I would put in a bazillion hours of work to create them. Um, no.

 

[Calico]

I do like to knit but was taken aback by someone who suggested I knit sweaters for her two little boys. She would buy the yarn and I would put in a bazillion hours of work to create them. Um, no.

People never cease to amaze me.

You could tell her that in exchange for the sweaters, your house needs painting, and you'll happily supply the paint and brushes - when can she start?

 

[rodi]

Managing my family portfolio sounds almost like work. Good thing I follow a lazy portfolio approach from my comfy chair.

 

[hnzw_rui]

Managing my family portfolio sounds almost like work. Good thing I follow a lazy portfolio approach from my comfy chair.

Lol, I don't even plan on managing the portfolio. By the time I retire, everything should be in Target Retirement Income and I just receive direct deposits to my checking account.

 

[LitGal]

I do like to knit but was taken aback by someone who suggested I knit sweaters for her two little boys. She would buy the yarn and I would put in a bazillion hours of work to create them. Um, no.

Yes, it's interesting to watch the "social consequences" when we choose to no longer work for $. Now I can decide what to care about (family, friends, hobbies, the future of the world/humanity). No longer am I required to care about anything involving "payment."

Though I don't knit, like bestwife, it's been startling to see the number of well-intentioned folk who assume I must have time on my hands to account for. Lots of invitations to help with various volunteer efforts.

I sometimes explain that I felt like a "volunteer" throughout 34 years of teaching: chaperoning, attending meetings, running meetings, coaching, grading mountains of papers on nights and weekends, constantly writing letters of recommendation..........all for essentially no pay.....maybe an occasional token stipend.

Folks say, "Well, that's a teacher's job." So, yes, one time I figured out what the hourly rate would have been if I divided my salary by the number of hours on the job both during and outside of the school day: less than minimum wage.

Was happy to do it. Loved the kids and many of the activities; but rarely did I have time for hobbies and personal interests during those years.

So, now, no longer does someone else get to decide how I will spend my time. Since there's no longer a need to earn $, it's a thrill to know that soon (after a huge down-sizing project) I'll get to return to all those beloved activities that have no financial value: tap-dancing, auditioning for the Sweet Adelines, playing piano (for nobody else's benefit), reading any old book (without having to figure out how to teach it), watching anything I want on TV (whenever I want). Sleeping in.

Who cares if "retirement" is not a PC term? My favorite people don't care!




(Sorry for rattling on and on. But it's fun to daydream, "free-associate," or just sit and revel in what I will get to do next.) And "next" happens on my schedule, not somebody else's!

 

[HadEnuff]

When the idea of "opening a winery" comes up, I repeat an old cliche about the business, probably borrowed from other enterprises,

"you know how you make a small fortune in the wine business?"
"You start with a large fortune."

 

[splitwdw]

I read that article and wondered about the construction company, boutique carpentry and other ventures that have come and gone. The only one that still survives at the time of the article is the "boutique carpenter operation"(can anyone tell me what that is). Those of you that are familiar with this man, were these bankruptcies? I'm trying to understand putting up the money to start a construction company and then realize it was too much for him. Does he have that much money from his 10 years of working (is that how long he worked at a full time job?) to keep starting ventures that come and go. It sounds like a lot of wasted money on business ventures. It says he retired in 2005 so it doesn't sound like these ventures/businesses were long term.


Quote from article "So in my own case I started just with the goal of being a parent, but then ended up starting a house-building company to pursue my lifelong love of building things. Then I learned that the daily stress and schedule of big, multi-person projects was still too much for me at the time, so it evolved into a boutique carpentry operation that still does local projects to this day. Other ventures have come and gone, but none of them were done because we needed the money. That is my definition of a modern retirement: the activities you pursue once you are done searching for money."

 

[aja8888]

"boutique carpentry operation" ??

Maybe he built things like small bird houses?

 

[W2R]

"boutique carpentry operation" ??

Maybe he built things like small bird houses?

Or maybe handyman type carpentry, of one-of-a-kind projects?

 

[harley]

"boutique carpentry operation" ??

Maybe he built things like small bird houses?

I'm assuming things like custom cabinetry, staircases, decks, etc. Carpentry for items you can't get in Home Depot. It's a fun hobby, but IMO would suck as a job. Of course nothing MMM does is a job, it's just earning money while retired.

I really have no problem with his lifestyle, I admire it in many ways. But it's not retirement, it's multi-entrepreneurism. If the stated purpose of the blog was "how to get out of the rat race" I'd be a straight out supporter. Couching it as retirement seems to be disingenuous to me.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

Wow, thank you MMM, I just realized that I have been retired for some 35 years now. I retired early at 32, not 66 like I had previously and erroneously thought. Because 1980 was the last year I received a W-2, and it was for only 20% of the year. The rest of the time I spent doing things that I liked doing, and had been doing anyway for free before then. But people did start giving me money for doing that stuff. I thought I had started a microprocessor consulting business, but now I realized that really I was retired!!!
I got paid for things (I was about to say worked) I did from my home office, so I could still be around my kids when they were young, and take off when I wanted. Gee.
I should have started a blog about it too, but they hadn't been invented yet.

 

[Options]

In the lives of most "normal" people, especially those with a better than average income, there's bound to be a fair amount of excess spending in the budget. It's that excess that can be cut back without sacrificing much in the way of quality of life.

But when you keep cutting beyond the excess you run into the reality that certain expenditures really do make our lives easier, more comfortable, or simply more enjoyable. When you start cutting into those layers of spending the trade off switches from the virtuous "less spending equals more financial freedom" to the deleterious "less spending equals more hardship."

My guess is that few of the extreme MM acolytes will end up happy over the long term with the trade offs they're promoting. Soon enough they'll discover the truth that just like everything else in life cutting spending is not immune to the law of diminishing returns.

I agree with you, but only because while I've lived beneath my means, I have denied myself nothing. My personal philosophy mirrors yours. However, I have hard time extrapolating my own identified needs onto someone else. One person's wants can easily be another's needs. I've read enough books on simplicity (that cite examples) to know a whole bunch of people exist that just don't need much beyond food, shelter, clothing. That's not me, but I can't say that way of living isn't for everyone, because it obviously is for some people.

 

[Texas Proud]

I'm assuming things like custom cabinetry, staircases, decks, etc. Carpentry for items you can't get in Home Depot. It's a fun hobby, but IMO would suck as a job. Of course nothing MMM does is a job, it's just earning money while retired.

I really have no problem with his lifestyle, I admire it in many ways. But it's not retirement, it's multi-entrepreneurism. If the stated purpose of the blog was "how to get out of the rat race" I'd be a straight out supporter. Couching it as retirement seems to be disingenuous to me.

+1 on this... I have not really followed him much, but of the little that I have read he is still working... for me work is doing something for money (or something in trade for some).... he writes a blog and gets money... he does carpentry and gets money... he does (I do not know any more) etc...


Having the ability to set your own schedule is not the definition of being retired... my dad had a number of businesses where he could set his schedule of when he wanted to work and when he did not... he never retired before passing...

Now, if he came and said (he has been on this board before IIRC) that ALL the money he makes doing his projects and blog is given away that might be another matter... his way of giving to charity.... but I doubt that is happening... IOW, he lives only on his investments....