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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 12-31-2005, 06:09 AM   #21
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

I posted recently about the financial conditions of the last
four (4) generations in my family. There is no question that
we live way "higher on the hog" than my parents , or my grandparents, or my great grandparents. I guess I would have to
reject the theory about not living as well as your parent's generation, at least based on my tiny sample. In fact, thinking
about others where I know a bit about their finances vis-a-vis
their parents, all are doing/have done better. I can't think of even one exception.

JG
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 12-31-2005, 09:45 AM   #22
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

I can think of two examples of children not being as well-off as their parents...

1) My father. He had a promising start in his life, going to dental school and becoming a dental technician...he'd do stuff like bridge work, make false teeth, etc. However, holding down a job was a totally different story. He liked to slack off, drink, hang out with his buddies, and avoid responsibility and self-improvement almost any chance he got. He and my Mom split up in 1977, when I was 7, and he moved to Florida about a year later. He'd work sporadically, but still drank alot. Ultimately got one DWI too many and lost his car. Then he lost his job. Finally moved back up here in 1987, with my grandparents, and never left. He's about to turn 60 now, and has very little to his name that I know of. Still lives with Granddad, but now that Granddad's 91, that's probably a good thing!

2) My uncle (Mom's brother). He was a slacker, graduated high school by the skin of his teeth, etc. And was always getting in trouble. Not really BAD trouble, like robbery, murder, etc, but stuff like taking your older sister's car out for a joyride when you're only 15, skipping school, outrunning the local yokel cops in your GTO, but then being stupid enough to come back home through the same town only to get busted, etc. He went from job to job, doing mainly manual labor type stuff like construction, roofing, road work, etc. Ultimately got busted himself for a DWI, and lost his license. Then he needed a kidney transplant. Fortunately the company he was with had a very good insurance program. But that also ended up being a trap, because he stayed with that company for fear that if he switched jobs, the new insurance wouldn't pick up his pre-existing condition. So now I think he's pretty much stuck there until he turns 65 and can get Medicare. Nowadays he lives with my grandmother, but again, like my Dad, it's a mutually beneficial relationship. Grandmom's going to be 82 soon, can't drive, and has macular degeneration, so she probably couldn't make it on her own anymore, unless she was put in a small apartment where family members were constantly checking in on her.

But again, these two examples just underly my previous comment about how the things we do to ourselves (drinking, slacking off too much, bad attitude, divorce, etc) or the things that fate throws at us (kidney transplant, illness, etc) will often hold us back more than the job market, economy, ROI on investments, etc.
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 12-31-2005, 03:53 PM   #23
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Andre1969,

Both of these people sound like they are exhibiting the behaviors of 'middle children'. As you are related to both individuals, do you know what their birth order is?

Alternatively, in the book "Millionaire Next Door" the authors talk about EOC (economic outpatient care). This is where families provide economically (either with cash, housing, etc.) for adult children (endlessly) in a manner so they really don't ever have to pull their own weight. I forget the exact statistic, but they said that more often than not, EOC recipients are males.

I've witnessed this kind of EOC enabling behavior in 3 or 4 families that I know, including one where the middle son (of 5) got a PhD in psychology and never worked a day in his life. His parents paid for his education, his apartment and food. Moreover, he never did lift a finger to help them as they got older.*

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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 12-31-2005, 04:19 PM   #24
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
I posted recently about the financial conditions of the last
four (4) generations in my family.* There is no question that
we live way "higher on the hog" than my parents , or my grandparents, or my great grandparents.* I guess I would have to
reject the theory about not living as well as your parent's generation, at least based on my tiny sample.* In fact, thinking
about others where I know a bit about their finances vis-a-vis
their parents, all are doing/have done better.* I can't think of even one exception.

JG
Same with me. I am much better off than my parents with a similar education. My gradndparents departed this world with about $10k in total assets after the house sale and auction of housefold goods. My other grandparents were sharecroppers and owned only the second hand furniture in their rented house and the clothes on their back. Their parents were dirt farmers and died with nothing but the family Bible.

My kids may or may not be better off than I am. Way too early to tell yet. My DW's family shows the same pattern; kids better off than parents. Of course these are small samples and there will always be exceptions. Two more generations down the road; who knows if the same trends will hold or not. I would like to think so as a big part of bringing up my kids was trying to be a role model for saving, investing and living within my means.

Drunks, dope heads, those mentally ill and those with other personality disorders (gamblers, abusers, and law breakers) will generally do less well in life. If you are going to compare generations you need to do so between similar potentials for acquiring and keeping wealth. Otherwise, it is an apples to oranges comparison.
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 12-31-2005, 05:54 PM   #25
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR


Drunks, dope heads, those mentally ill and those with other personality disorders (gamblers, abusers, and law breakers) will generally do less well in life.*
We didn't have any of those.

JG
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 12-31-2005, 06:45 PM   #26
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Omni550, in response to your question, no Jan Brady syndrome here. In these cases, both my uncle and my Dad were the youngest kids! So maybe they were babied too much or something, and never really could make it on their own?

I know in the case of my uncle, he was born with a horseshoe shaped kidney in 1952, and the doctor actually told my grandmother there was a good chance that she would end up outliving him. I know that's got to be a horrible thing for a parent to hear, and I know that thought haunts her to this day.

Anyway, Grandmom and Granddad didn't spoil my Mom and uncle as kids, but I think what they'd do is bail them both out when they got in trouble, either financial or otherwise. And since my uncle would get into more trouble than my mother, he got bailed out more. As a result, my mother has always been a bit jealous, and even to this day I can still see it. My grandparents (or Grandmom, after 1990 when Granddad died) probably helped out my uncle with just about every vehicle he's ever bought until the last two, while I think Mom paid for all of hers, starting with a $75 '57 Plymouth, a $250 '59 Rambler station wagon, and a brand-new '66 Catalina convertible that she bought when she was 17, in her senior year in high school. I'm STILL impressed that she was able to pull that one down! Heck, when I was 17, I had Mom's old hand-me-down 1980 Malibu!

As for my Dad, I really don't know much about his childhood. He was the youngest of 3 boys though. I don't know if he was spoiled or not, but my Grandparents on that side of the family really didn't seem like the type to spoil the kids, either, although they'd help them out in a pinch.

Anyway, one thing I'm glad about, at least, is that both my uncle and my Dad are trying to save now. My uncle has a 401K and a conventional IRA, and a pretty well-padded checking account. My Dad is putting away something like 15% of his pay into whatever the gov't equivalent of the 401k is (403b or whatever?). And he also had enough saved up to pay around $13K cash for a fairly new used Buick a couple years ago. I found out a few years ago my Granddad has also been charging him something like $500 per month rent, and is putting it into an account for him that he'll get back once Granddad passes away, so at least my Dad will have something.

Sometimes I do worry about what will happen when my Granddad on my Dad's side, and Grandmom on my Mom's side pass away. I really don't know if my Dad or uncle would be able to make it on their own. Neither one is very good about money or investing, although they are learning, slowly. They're at least trying to save now in their later years, which is better than nothing. But they'll never be able to get back those lost years that they blew on their youth.

Oh yeah, I just thought of another example. My grandmother's cousin, who recently turned 81, has a son who lives with her who's something like 60 or 61. Actually, from what I've heard he's not "all there" if you know what I mean, but he's smart enough to figure out how to declare bankruptcy, hide assets, and find other ways to work the system. I think in his older age the "system" is starting to catch up to him, but I swear, if over the course of his life he put half as much effort into working as he did avoiding work and trying to make a fast buck or work the welfare, legal, or some other system, he'd be a wealthy man! As for his mother, she retired back in 1980, and was a GS-13 in the federal gov't. But this is another case where alcohol took its toll. And drugs had a role in it too.
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 12-31-2005, 08:07 PM   #27
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
We didn't have any of those.
They say every family has one, so if you dont see one in your family, chances are its you.
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-01-2006, 06:01 AM   #28
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ()
They say every family has one, so if you dont see one in your family, chances are its you.
Could be.

JG
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-01-2006, 08:49 AM   #29
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Soup,

As others have said, you have a huge advantage in starting early. At your age, if you save on a regular basis and live below your means, you'll be fine.

A couple of advantages that the boomers had which weren't on your list:

-- When many of them went to purchase their first house, interest rates were around 16 or 17 percent.

-- In their 30's, 40's, and 50's, many of them have had defined pension plans either reduced or converted to cash balance plans, resulting in smaller retirement benefits than they had expected.

-- In their early working years, many boomers did not have 401K type plans available at work.

During the next 30 or 40 years, many things will change (the stock market could take a nosedive, the real estate market could crash, etc.), events like that present an opportunity if you take advantage of them.

Good Luck,

John
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-01-2006, 10:09 AM   #30
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

I can vouch for the high mortgage rates, I bought my house at 17.5 in 1980, refinaced every time it made sense until I got it down to 6.5 then paid it off a few years ago. Didn't have 401k until 1990 and never had a job that paid a pension.

I sure wish they had 401ks when I was 25.
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-01-2006, 04:45 PM   #31
 
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

My generation, our wives stayed home with the kids, mortgage Rates were double digit, we did not have PC's and their ability to present opportunities, and holidays were something we did every couple of years.

My Kids shared a room, we had 1 TV, and if we had a problem we did not blame others or go running to our Parents to solve them.

We entertained our kids, not some video game, and microwaveable dinners, forget it.

I paid my way through school, worked as I went, no loans from home or Governments.

My Father's generation was dying on the Beaches at France, North Africa and in Italy, what are today's kids complaining about, they have never had things so easy.
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-01-2006, 05:21 PM   #32
 
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Yes, I was thinking about this also. When I was a young man, we had the Vietnam War and I was drafted. We did not have 401Ks until I was about 35. Home mortgage rates were commonly 10%.

The young workers today should hope that the market goes nowhere, while they are buying stocks 'cheap'. It looks to me like the 24 year olds have an ideal investing climate.

The only fly in the ointment is that jobs in America are all threatend by cheap labor overseas. This is the area that I do not envy them in. If you can get a good paying job today and save, you should have no trouble beating past generations.
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-01-2006, 07:02 PM   #33
 
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Cut-Throat, don't agree , we are opening up markets 10x that of the US, today's kids have enormous opportunities.

My Son has stayed in China for 7 years, tremendous opportunities, just not working at the Mill, differant jobs, differant skill requirements.

Haitii has the cheapest labour in the world, how many car plants are going in there.

US Schools have to stop spending so much time on US History, get the kids thinking globably.

Beijing, Moscow, Paris, just another plane ride.

Swedish Kids speak at leat three languages by time they graduate, that is the future for American kids.

US Manafacturing is complaining they cannot get the skilled workers, forget about the degree in Samoan Anthropology, get a Trade.
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-01-2006, 11:35 PM   #34
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Kids these days? Gah-bage!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.thekidfrombrooklyn.com/mo...oday1_0205.WMV

Cb
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-02-2006, 12:25 AM   #35
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

soup,

I think it is reasonable for you to feel disadvantaged in some ways. Look at the responses to your post. Most of them carry a tone indicating that everyone feels like they faced disadvantages. All of us tend to see the unfair disadvantages we face and miss the advantages that we have.

You will have to overcome some disadvantages. I'm not sure your list of disadvantages is the most important. If I were you I would be more upset about Medicare and the inadequate medical system in the US. I would be more upset about the deficit that the current generation is adding to your long term issues. But who knows? The biggest challenge your generation faces may be something none of us anticipates.

Some of the posts mentioned some of your advantages. You have access to tax advantaged accounts that came along late for many of us. You don't have to face a draft that could dramatically affect your career plans. And there will be others that we cannot predict.

All you can really do is focus on the advantages and hope they outweigh the disadvantages. That's what we all end up doing. Good luck. I hope you do well.
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-02-2006, 07:21 AM   #36
 
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Obstacles are the things you see when you take your eyes off the opportunities.

if you want a helping hand, look at the end of your wrist.

A Rut is a coffin with the ends kicked out.

If it ain't broke, break it.

If you are not making a mistake a day, you are not learning anything.

Jordan missed a thousand jump shots until he finally sunk one.
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-02-2006, 08:10 AM   #37
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard


Jordan missed a thousand jump shots until he finally sunk one.
(WTF)?

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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-02-2006, 08:28 AM   #38
 
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

A pessimist is an optimist with experience.
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-02-2006, 08:47 AM   #39
 
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

Quote:
Jordan missed a thousand jump shots until he finally sunk one.

Gee, It only took me about 5 tries to make a jump shot. To think I squandered my life away in software, when I could have been an NBA Star making Millions!
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?
Old 01-02-2006, 08:55 AM   #40
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Re: My generation: missing the boom years?

I can make free throws @ almost 100% from the half court line.

You listening Shaq?
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