My generation: missing the boom years?

Omni550, in response to your question, no Jan Brady syndrome here. In these cases, both my uncle and my Dad were the youngest kids! So maybe they were babied too much or something, and never really could make it on their own?

I know in the case of my uncle, he was born with a horseshoe shaped kidney in 1952, and the doctor actually told my grandmother there was a good chance that she would end up outliving him. I know that's got to be a horrible thing for a parent to hear, and I know that thought haunts her to this day.

Anyway, Grandmom and Granddad didn't spoil my Mom and uncle as kids, but I think what they'd do is bail them both out when they got in trouble, either financial or otherwise. And since my uncle would get into more trouble than my mother, he got bailed out more. As a result, my mother has always been a bit jealous, and even to this day I can still see it. My grandparents (or Grandmom, after 1990 when Granddad died) probably helped out my uncle with just about every vehicle he's ever bought until the last two, while I think Mom paid for all of hers, starting with a $75 '57 Plymouth, a $250 '59 Rambler station wagon, and a brand-new '66 Catalina convertible that she bought when she was 17, in her senior year in high school. I'm STILL impressed that she was able to pull that one down! Heck, when I was 17, I had Mom's old hand-me-down 1980 Malibu!

As for my Dad, I really don't know much about his childhood. He was the youngest of 3 boys though. I don't know if he was spoiled or not, but my Grandparents on that side of the family really didn't seem like the type to spoil the kids, either, although they'd help them out in a pinch.

Anyway, one thing I'm glad about, at least, is that both my uncle and my Dad are trying to save now. My uncle has a 401K and a conventional IRA, and a pretty well-padded checking account. My Dad is putting away something like 15% of his pay into whatever the gov't equivalent of the 401k is (403b or whatever?). And he also had enough saved up to pay around $13K cash for a fairly new used Buick a couple years ago. I found out a few years ago my Granddad has also been charging him something like $500 per month rent, and is putting it into an account for him that he'll get back once Granddad passes away, so at least my Dad will have something.

Sometimes I do worry about what will happen when my Granddad on my Dad's side, and Grandmom on my Mom's side pass away. I really don't know if my Dad or uncle would be able to make it on their own. Neither one is very good about money or investing, although they are learning, slowly. They're at least trying to save now in their later years, which is better than nothing. But they'll never be able to get back those lost years that they blew on their youth.

Oh yeah, I just thought of another example. My grandmother's cousin, who recently turned 81, has a son who lives with her who's something like 60 or 61. Actually, from what I've heard he's not "all there" if you know what I mean, but he's smart enough to figure out how to declare bankruptcy, hide assets, and find other ways to work the system. I think in his older age the "system" is starting to catch up to him, but I swear, if over the course of his life he put half as much effort into working as he did avoiding work and trying to make a fast buck or work the welfare, legal, or some other system, he'd be a wealthy man! As for his mother, she retired back in 1980, and was a GS-13 in the federal gov't. But this is another case where alcohol took its toll. And drugs had a role in it too.
 
Soup,

As others have said, you have a huge advantage in starting early. At your age, if you save on a regular basis and live below your means, you'll be fine.

A couple of advantages that the boomers had which weren't on your list:

-- When many of them went to purchase their first house, interest rates were around 16 or 17 percent.

-- In their 30's, 40's, and 50's, many of them have had defined pension plans either reduced or converted to cash balance plans, resulting in smaller retirement benefits than they had expected.

-- In their early working years, many boomers did not have 401K type plans available at work.

During the next 30 or 40 years, many things will change (the stock market could take a nosedive, the real estate market could crash, etc.), events like that present an opportunity if you take advantage of them.

Good Luck,

John
 
I can vouch for the high mortgage rates, I bought my house at 17.5 in 1980, refinaced every time it made sense until I got it down to 6.5 then paid it off a few years ago. Didn't have 401k until 1990 and never had a job that paid a pension.

I sure wish they had 401ks when I was 25.
 
My generation, our wives stayed home with the kids, mortgage Rates were double digit, we did not have PC's and their ability to present opportunities, and holidays were something we did every couple of years.

My Kids shared a room, we had 1 TV, and if we had a problem we did not blame others or go running to our Parents to solve them.

We entertained our kids, not some video game, and microwaveable dinners, forget it.

I paid my way through school, worked as I went, no loans from home or Governments.

My Father's generation was dying on the Beaches at France, North Africa and in Italy, what are today's kids complaining about, they have never had things so easy.
 
Yes, I was thinking about this also. When I was a young man, we had the Vietnam War and I was drafted. We did not have 401Ks until I was about 35. Home mortgage rates were commonly 10%.

The young workers today should hope that the market goes nowhere, while they are buying stocks 'cheap'. It looks to me like the 24 year olds have an ideal investing climate.

The only fly in the ointment is that jobs in America are all threatend by cheap labor overseas. This is the area that I do not envy them in. If you can get a good paying job today and save, you should have no trouble beating past generations.
 
Cut-Throat, don't agree , we are opening up markets 10x that of the US, today's kids have enormous opportunities.

My Son has stayed in China for 7 years, tremendous opportunities, just not working at the Mill, differant jobs, differant skill requirements.

Haitii has the cheapest labour in the world, how many car plants are going in there.

US Schools have to stop spending so much time on US History, get the kids thinking globably.

Beijing, Moscow, Paris, just another plane ride.

Swedish Kids speak at leat three languages by time they graduate, that is the future for American kids.

US Manafacturing is complaining they cannot get the skilled workers, forget about the degree in Samoan Anthropology, get a Trade.
 
soup,

I think it is reasonable for you to feel disadvantaged in some ways. Look at the responses to your post. Most of them carry a tone indicating that everyone feels like they faced disadvantages. All of us tend to see the unfair disadvantages we face and miss the advantages that we have.

You will have to overcome some disadvantages. I'm not sure your list of disadvantages is the most important. If I were you I would be more upset about Medicare and the inadequate medical system in the US. I would be more upset about the deficit that the current generation is adding to your long term issues. But who knows? The biggest challenge your generation faces may be something none of us anticipates.

Some of the posts mentioned some of your advantages. You have access to tax advantaged accounts that came along late for many of us. You don't have to face a draft that could dramatically affect your career plans. And there will be others that we cannot predict.

All you can really do is focus on the advantages and hope they outweigh the disadvantages. That's what we all end up doing. Good luck. I hope you do well. :)
 
Obstacles are the things you see when you take your eyes off the opportunities.

if you want a helping hand, look at the end of your wrist.

A Rut is a coffin with the ends kicked out.

If it ain't broke, break it.

If you are not making a mistake a day, you are not learning anything.

Jordan missed a thousand jump shots until he finally sunk one.
 
Jordan missed a thousand jump shots until he finally sunk one.


Gee, It only took me about 5 tries to make a jump shot. To think I squandered my life away in software, when I could have been an NBA Star making Millions! :D :D
 
Cut-Throat said:
The only fly in the ointment is that jobs in America are all threatend by cheap labor overseas. This is the area that I do not envy them in. If you can get a good paying job today and save, you should have no trouble beating past generations.

I don't see this as a new threat. Outsourcing to India/China might be a relatively new source of lost jobs in first world countries, but there have always been jobs that have been threatened because some reason or other. Consider the productivity gains from the industrial revolution; well paying manual labor jobs were "outsourced" to a machine. We've been losing jobs to more efficient (read: lower cost) methods of production for generations.

This isn't targeted at you Soup, just an observation: I'm Gen X, and I'm constantly amazed at how pessimistic my generation is. I'm yet another datapoint of someone who is doing better than my parents while having the same level of education (actually, a lower level of education than my CPA/Ph.D. Mom) The same as true of my wife, although to a lesser degree.

One of my former roomates, who works in enterprise databases or some such thing complained to me that he was making "only" $75K after working 2 years?! Where the hell is the sense of perspective?!

Oh well, call me an optimist, but we are incredibily lucky to be born during this era and this place.

EDIT: Corrected grammar and spelling
 
Soupx -

Aren't you the one that posts about an impressive 125k+ account @ age early 20 something?  With all due respect WTF are you complaining about?
 
WanderALot said:
I'm Gen X, and I'm constantly amazed at how pessimistic my generation is.
Apparently you're gonna have to read more about the Boomers in the 1960s...
 
Sysiphus writes:
I DO think that every generation ends up having a better and more properous life than the one before. Almost every generation doubts that at some point, but it is a long standing pattern.

I graduated from college in the mid-late 80's, into a job market which was not very good and which proceeded to get worse for several years before getting better, and I distinctly remember hearing others in my class lament that we were going to be the first generation that would have a lower standard of living than the preceeding generation. In retrospect, that turned out to be untrue, and while one of these days it may come true, don't bank on that day being today. Take the long view.

Bpp
 
Heh, I think this is a case of perspective, micro vs. macro. As you've noticed, I can't complain about my situation at the current time, but my original post was more about the larger trends that will affect me throughout the accumulation years. Also, to consider how other members of my generation would be impacted by any structural changes, since I don't think most of them are at the same point I am.

wildcat said:
Soupx -

Aren't you the one that posts about an impressive 125k+ account @ age early 20 something?  With all due respect WTF are you complaining about?
 
soupcxan said:
Heh, I think this is a case of perspective, micro vs. macro. As you've noticed, I can't complain about my situation at the current time, but my original post was more about the larger trends that will affect me throughout the accumulation years. Also, to consider how other members of my generation would be impacted by any structural changes, since I don't think most of them are at the same point I am.

My SILs are in their early 30s. My sons are in their middle and early 20s. My work peers tend to be in the late 30s to early 40s age groups or are mid to late Baby Boomers. Based on my somewhat biased sample I would say that there is more of a difference in individual perspectives than there are in over simplified generalities about one generation or another. If one wants to ER and be FI, it does not matter what generation they are from. Save and invest and you will get rich slowly. Time in on your side so use it to make your money grow.

My brother and I are vastly different in our approach to ER yet we are both Boomers; he being 3 years older. He wants to work until he drops and has not been so great about saving money. I want to quit long before that and have done pretty well during the last 15 years or so. My DW and her sisters and other family members have lived on the edge most of their lives; saving and investing is a foreign concept to them. They live on the edge of the debt abyss and will work until age 65 or beyond. My parents were savers and lived within and even below their means their whole lives. Their parents were poor and their parents were even poorer. I am more than 10X better off (net worth) than my parents. Will my kids do as well or better? That will be up to them. I see them having a better chance at it than I did because I did not have the chance to save and invest until after my divorce so instead of having 15 years to create a sizeable nest egg, they could have 30 years to do so.

So, IMHO, it is more an individual thing than a generational one. My current company has no pension; has no post retirement medical benefits and the match on the 401(k) is minimal. I am experiencing first hand the working environment that many Gen. X and Y types are also experiencing. I am glad I was able to "get religion" after my divorce or I would have to work until age 65.

As far as missing the Boom years....a lot of us here remember the mid 1970's job market and the massive inflation and "dead markets" during that time. It was not pretty paying 15-18% on a home mortgage and watching the price of everything go up and up while wages lagged far behind. 401(k)? what is that? Index funds? Low cost stock brokers? (think $40 per trade) No internet banking, no internet equity searches, lines at the gas stations, high energy costs, the Cold War, Viet Nam, etc. etc. I an not so sure anyone can defend the Boom nature of these years to me. I lived through them and still have very painful memories of trying to make ends meet with a young family during those times.

Ok, end of sad song. :)
 
With regard to the outsourcing of jobs overseas, there is definitely reason to be concerned for all the folks who are still in the workforce (boomers and those younger).

The current wave of outsourcing is not the same issue that was faced when manufacturing jobs left the U.S. When manufacturing jobs left, some of those workers were able to transition into Information Technology jobs and other types of office work. The current wave of outsourcing can and does affect any type of desk job.

Defenders of outsourcing use the argument that it will free up American employees to move on to all the “New Jobs” being created, similar to what happened with all the new technology jobs that were created during the 70’s and 80’s. However, with the exception of jobs in the medical field (and some of those can be outsourced too), I'm not seeing any new job areas being created that can't and won't be outsourced overseas.
 
I'm not seeing any new job areas being created that can't and won't be outsourced overseas

There will always be a job for someone to park my car at the Polo Club or to bring me drinks with little umbrellas in them out by the pool.
 
MasterBlaster said:
There will always be a job for someone to park my car at the Polo Club or to bring me drinks with little umbrellas in them out by the pool.
That's a relief. I was afraid that MasterBlaster would decide to join a foriegn Polo Club and eliminate the last job in America. :D :LOL: :D
 
And after the companies lose customers in droves due to language and cultural issues, and the outsource employees drive up their salaries when they start wanting bmw's and ipods, the jobs will end up coming back here.
 
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