Openness regarding finances.

[RAE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by prudent_one I am happy to talk investment theory with anyone but I never discuss my actual numbers - not savings, not salary, nothing - with anyone besides my wife and not even family. I just don't see what good could come from it. There are some family members who would expect us to give them money even though they have twice our income - they just squander it all, and when there's the inevitable emergency, they can't deal with it.

+1, same thing here. My two siblings are both financially irresponsible. We have loaned them money in the past, and it was a mistake (we won't be doing that again). Letting them know what we have would only make things more difficult for the relationship. We're not all that close to most other family, so we don't discuss finances at all with any of them.

[pjm-7]

My personal philosophy has always been, "People that truly have money don't talk about it." I have always had a frugal/modest lifestyle. If anybody asked for "advice" I steer them to books like "The Millionaire Next Door" or "Your Money or Your Life". Family members and close friends are comfortable knowing that I won't talk about numbers.

[kcowan]

I keep things vague. I spend according to my LBYM lifestyle and DW is a little more profligate but my habits have rubbed off over the last 20 years.

Our current friends are varied from about 1/4 of our NW to 5x but only by my estimates because we never discuss numbers. My feeling is that if you are happy with your level of spending then nothing else matters. And it has nothing to do with trust.

I never divulged my net worth to my Dad even though I trust and loved him. I felt that it would make him feel bad.

[jjquantz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom ... Folk who are not very financially literate aren't able to understand how it's possible to have, say, a million dollars, yet be living on an income of around $25K/year. Having a million dollars is a lot of money, so it must mean you're rich, yet $25K/year isn't much - probably less than they are making. How to equate the two? Many people can't do that.

+100 Great observation - this is the root of the reason why I don't reveal ANY numbers to members of my extended family. There is too much room for misunderstanding. The core concept that they don't understand is that cash on hand is not income. They have always and will always live paycheck to paycheck (or SS disability check to SS disability check) because when they have money they spend it.

Understanding the fundamental relationship between a "big pile of money" and the income that it can generate is the one thing that all members of this group have in common. We may disagree about the details, but we are all in agreement on the big picture.

[Souschef]

My wife and i just came from a lawyer, where we created powers of attorney for health care and financials. We gave copies of hers to her sons, and I will give copies of mine to my 2 sons.
I also sent both my sons an e-mail telling them I have put them on my accounts as TOD, and told them where the accounts were, but not the numbers or amounts.
My closing statement to them was my mom lived to 102, so do not expect anything soon
I totally agree with the LBYM concept, and it has done well for us.

[Bamaman]

It seems the more you talk numbers, the more the adult children get in your pocket. Every family's different, but we have chosen to keep our financial situation a secret from the 3 older kids and the 1 younger daughter.

We've bailed out a couple of the kids in some situations beyond their control. Now, they expect us to shell out to them too often. I'm more into letting them save for their own financial emergencies instead of not saving for their future or saving for retirement.

And the bank is now closed.

[Souschef]

I hear you. I saw a great t-shirt. It said "The Bank of Dad", and hanging on the last "d" was a sign saying "CLOSED"

[H2ODude]

Share general amounts with both kids, they are both doing well and act sort of disinterested and that's just fine. We've loaned DS his mortgage (recorded and all) which has been beneficial to all. Share same general info with two close friends who are in generally same shape.

I get a kick out of people who say they never share salary. As a public employee for two different 15 year gigs it was always listed in the paper. At my first one I literally would find out what annual raise was....in the paper! Until I got closer to the HR director anyway.

[nash031]

I have talked openly with my brothers-in-law and my mother and late father as well as a few friends about our planning for early retirement. They all know I should have a military pension in a few years, so I'm guessing they mostly assume it'll be due to that (which it will, in part). I don't ever intend to discuss real numbers with family nor with friends, even though as the poster above notes, my pay and pension are both a matter of public record... our account balances are not!

I help Mom with her finances, and she recently commented regarding her stash, "I know that looks like a lot of money, but it's really not when you have to make it last 20 years." As ours is just a little bit larger and that comment leads me to believe she has no idea what we've managed to save thus far, I think my "secret" is safe.

[splitwdw]

One sister and a couple of close friends are okay to talk money, not exact amounts but we are all doing well. Some better than others but we are all on the same page as far as saving and spending. Do have some family members that just don't get the savings thing. You know not to discuss money with those family members.

[Major Tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjquantz The core concept that they don't understand is that cash on hand is not income. Understanding the fundamental relationship between a "big pile of money" and the income that it can generate is the one thing that all members of this group have in common.

Bingo! - and there you have it. You have explained it more succinctly than I did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2ODude Share general amounts with both kids, they are both doing well and act sort of disinterested and that's just fine.

During a telephone conversation with my Dad once, he said, "Well, I'll just say this about how much I have - I think my heirs will be very happy". It was a slightly uncomfortable moment. Given the choice, I would have happily let him keep all of his money if we could have kept him (and our Mum) around for a few more years but of course, it doesn't work like that. Divided between the 4 of us, it wasn't a huge amount - though not insignificant, and it has added a welcome extra amount of comfort and padding to my ER budget. With the passage of time, it will add even more. Thanks Dad - though I wish you and Mum were still here.

[Danmar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2ODude I get a kick out of people who say they never share salary. As a public employee for two different 15 year gigs it was always listed in the paper. At my first one I literally would find out what annual raise was....in the paper! Until I got closer to the HR director anyway.

Yes, my total comp was disclosed in my employer's proxy circular and was thus a matter of public record. Also all my uncashed incentive comp was marked to market and disclosed. I could run but I couldn't hide. Luckily that was quite a while ago and people have forgotten.

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2ODude I get a kick out of people who say they never share salary. As a public employee for two different 15 year gigs it was always listed in the paper.

I had that happen too sometimes. It wasn't a big deal because I was nowhere near the top earners so I didn't attract any attention.

We're vague about numbers but family knows we're reasonably comfortable but we don't throw money around. Only once did a somewhat distant one ask for a loan which I refused. I'd been warned by other family that she had a history of borrowing and not paying it back so that one was easy.

One SIL is somewhat jealous of our perceived "wealth" but while she was on SSDI sleeping in we were scraping ice & snow off the car windows at 6:30 AM to go to work. She's never asked for a loan or gift - I think she knows the answer.

It's interesting watching another SIL & hubby deal with retirement finances. They were used to a $200k+ income when working and spent most of it. Now they're dealing with less than half that income and struggling - house payment, two car payments, cc bills and the like. They're learning though.

[anethum]

My dad shared financial information with me including recent mutual fund statements when he was 85. It's a good thing that he did. Around age 90, he started to decline due to vascular senility. I started preparing my parents tax returns, and POA forms were filled out. He had a fairly serious stroke when he was 94 and needed 24/7 home nursing care from that point on. He lived another 8 months, and I had to periodically sell assets and transfer the proceeds to their checking account so my mom could pay the nurses. My mom had paid the bills most of their married life, but she had little knowledge of their investments or tax returns. I had to make decisions about which assets to sell, taking into account capital gains as well as medical deductions for the expensive and excellent nursing care he received.

I gave my investment information to my friend who agreed to be the executor of my estate, but didn't share numbers with him.

[Slow But Steady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by splitwdw One sister and a couple of close friends are okay to talk money, not exact amounts but we are all doing well. Some better than others but we are all on the same page as far as saving and spending. Do have some family members that just don't get the savings thing. You know not to discuss money with those family members.

This reminds me of a time years ago when I happened to mention to my brother-in-law that our finances were a bit tight at the moment because I'd just paid $7500 to MasterCard. He said, "$7500! What was your balance?"

To which I replied, "Ummm... $7500."

Mark that relative down as one who doesn't get it.

[kaudrey]

We are fairly private. We are in our 40s, parents are in their late 70s. I know about how much my parents have. I am their POA and executor, and usually at Christmas dad and I have a brief talk about finances.

We are a small family and we all LBOMs. My parents would probably guess in the ballpark if asked how much they think we have saved. My sister and BIL are savers as well, and although we don't talk specifics, they do know DH and I plan to retire in about 10 years.

Our best friends know approximately how much of our incomes we save, and how we invest - they like talking investments. I believe at various times other how much we save as percent of income has come up with various other friends, but not a total accumulation. People don't need to know that.

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjm-7 My personal philosophy has always been, "People that truly have money don't talk about it." ...

Yes, I know a number of what I call "closet" millionaires.... people with millions who live a conservative upper middle class lifestyle who you would have no idea the have millions.

[athena53]

Years ago DH accidentally disclosed our income level. It was back when the government issued stimulus checks of something like $250 to everyone who made less than a certain level ($150K?), hoping they'd spend it and help the economy. DH was riding back from a church event with our dentist and his BIL, and they were talking about what they were doing with their checks. They asked DH what we were doing with ours and he said we didn't get one because we were over the income threshold. They asked what the threshold was and DH just said that he didn't know, but between my income, his SS and his freelance income, we exceeded it.


And that's how I learned we were pulling in more than our dentist, even though his wife works as his receptionist.

[rodi]

When I was working, I did tend to proselytize about LBYM as a way of reaching early retirement. Some of my work friends would protest they had no money left to save and asked how I managed to save. They knew I made less since I worked 4 days/week for 80% pay. (And many were at higher pay grades.) I pointed to my home packed lunch and that we didn't eat out often... to the fact that I didn't buy new clothes very often since why dress fancy if you're stuck in a windowless development lab debugging hardware and software. Etc. Eventually discussions turned to percentages - they knew I hit the max 401k contributions + catchup once I hit 50. They knew I was making extra payments on my mortgage. They knew I drove old (but reliable) cars and hadn't bought into the SoCal beemer lifestyle. Over time I converted at least 2 coworkers - at my nagging they upped their 401k contributions. When I gave notice to retire these same friends were completely unsurprised and didn't ask "how could I afford it" since they had known my plan and seen me working it. Not with actual $$, but with percentages.

Family... I don't have much on my side (small family, lots of cancer). My sister knows ballpark stuff... and she knows that our early retirement is based on a small budget footprint. She has similar assets but a larger budget (despite no kids)... but loves her job and will get a nice pension. She'll be fine in retirement, even with her larger lifestyle, when she chooses to retire because of the asset/pension combination.

As far as details - we plan to share specifics (not necessarily exact numbers, but definitely account details) with our children when they are adults. My husband had to play detective on his parents assets when he became legal guardian. MIL had accounts squirreled away all over the place - plus stacks of paper bonds. (Treasury direct didn't have the complete list since some were very old... but given bond numbers confirmed they hadn't been cashed out.) I do not want to make my kids go through that detective work. Hence I have a "in case of death/incapacitation" document. (Even DH doesn't know all the details since he has less interest.)

[poorcarver]

I am with Major Tom, this comes up from time to time, but it is interesting as I enjoy watching/talking about this. Our children got it and get it, LBYM, etc. Our position is that we want to move the entire family down the field, given that everyone is playing. So yes we are bank of Dad/Mom as why pay interest to strangers? The point is to build wealth across generations, supporting the players and cutting those who don't wish to play the game for the long haul.