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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 01:40 PM   #21
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

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Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby
And people thought I was unromantic in suggesting a pre-nup to protect one's FIRE assets.

It is just this sort of thing -- either before marriage or during a marriage -- that warrants a pre-nup.
I think the difference here is that it is a woman whose ox is being gored. Men are still expected to be Piggy Banks.

Ha
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 02:22 PM   #22
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

SillySal,

Just curious, how serious have your money discussions been?* Does he really know anything about being financially responsible?* *There are good people out there who just don't have a clue because it's never mattered to them.* Sure, everyone on this board knows better and is correctly appalled with money mismanagement.* You'd figure that homeowners would be financially responsible, but the current numbers are more than 4% are currently delinquent on their mortgages according to an article I read just the other day.* !!!!!* *Think about that, one in almost 20 mortgages are past due.* That's a few folks with problems and lot of folks who just don't have a clue, IMO.

If he's one of the clueless, he may be trainable.* My advise swims against the current here, settle down and have a couple of more serious money discussions with the guy.* Then cut him loose, just kidding.

Good luck,

Chris

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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 02:28 PM   #23
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

Quote:
Originally Posted by newellcr
If he's one of the clueless, he may be trainable.*
That's definitely true.* Don't throw him out just for being clueless.* (We'd all be divorced!)* I'm more worried about the dishonest, or secretive part actually.*
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 04:19 PM   #24
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Have Funds, Will Retire
TH - was that a freudian slip, or a typo...
Hey, my wife has said that I'm the only man she ever met that she'd have kids with

Johnnys noted opinion is borne out by fact...most marriages break down due to financial or sexual problems. In the '30 days - minimum wage" show that I started a thread on last week, two well-to-do yuppies try living on minimum wage for a month. By week three they were ripping into each other for buying a bottle of water and a donut. He admitted and she accused him of being lousy with money, but I saw her blowing money on stuff without even thinking about it.

On stuff like this...well...I dont buy 'clueless' or 'disorganized'. I dont know anyone who was systematically 'bad with credit' that didnt know it.

Financial responsibility isnt some little money thing. You make a deal with someone and your end is to make the payments on time. The lack of doing so says this person enters deals they may not think through and cant or wont hold up their end of the bargain. Hiding it just raises another 50 red flags.

I've been in relationships where old, unrelated bits of information were sort of kept under wraps and while I wish my partner at the time had trusted me enough to tell me this or that earlier in the relationship...old stuff that didnt affect me or our relationship just didnt carry the same weight as this.

Consider this relationship very seriously and very carefully. I am unaware of anyone who has been financially careless who 'got better' or 'got trained'. Most folks like that were also always late to appointments, didnt follow through with promises and committments all the time, etc.
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 04:31 PM   #25
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

Quote:
And people thought I was unromantic in suggesting a pre-nup to protect one's FIRE assets.

It is just this sort of thing -- either before marriage or during a marriage -- that warrants a pre-nup.
Quote:
I think the difference here is that it is a woman whose ox is being gored. Men are still expected to be Piggy Banks.

Ha
Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.* There you guys go again with the prenup and the generalities about women! * :P

Being unromantic has nothing to do with my opinion on prenups, Jay -- I think people make a mistake in using pre-nups to paper over or substitute for what should be a solid level of trust. *

As for you Ha, we've already spoken about this -- I do 90% of the bread-winning in my relationship and I know a LOT of other women who do too. *Could you do lil' ole me a favor and throw a "generally" or "oftentimes" or "most of the time" into those sweeping generalizations? *

To the point here -- I think it's been said already, as harsh as it sounds, that someone who will omit pertinent facts in one arena (financial) will probably do so in others. * And when it comes right down to it, money is the least of it (I can hear the gasps now, but it's true, nevertheless). *Do you want to have children, sign a mortgage, move across country with, etc. etc. with someone who leaves you with that little niggling doubt in the back of your mind?

You deserve the best -- but its up to you to demand it.*
Caroline
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 05:19 PM   #26
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
As for you Ha, we've already spoken about this -- I do 90% of the bread-winning in my relationship and I know a LOT of other women who do too. *Could you do lil' ole me a favor and throw a "generally" or "oftentimes" or "most of the time" into those sweeping generalizations? * Caroline
Oh Baby am I chastised! Well done, Caroline. I was speaking in generalities, and I confess trying to work off a bit of stored animus.

I know this would not apply to you, or to any of the other very successfuil and responsible women who post on this board. Plus you and the other women are invariably polite. Something for which I am grateful.

But I understand your point. I am Irish, and like many Irish-Americans I know, I haven't had too much to drink in 35 years. Yet every spring I get to hear about the drunken Irishmen, and it does get old.

Mikey (Ha)

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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 05:36 PM   #27
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

Mr. & Mrs. Zipper say he is "not worthy".

Tactfully pull the plug and move on!
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 06:37 PM   #28
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sillysal
* We didn't have any joint debt, but when he told me that he had latepayments, I asked my bank (I also work for this bank) if we could put him on the loan for my vehicle so he could build an ontime history (this was when I believed he didn't have any current debt. I did not put him on the title, though.

*
* * I'm guessing that your bank didn't run a credit check on him at that point ....* *Personally, I'd refinance the car and get his name off the loan ... I wouldn't want his credit anywhere near mine.
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 07:14 PM   #29
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

Sal,

In many families money isn't discussed, nor finances, nor budgeting taught to youngsters. Many people I know find it extremely uncomfortable to talk about money for various reasons. A good amount of the time it is because they've never had to or learned to. How many times have any of us talked about money, finances, insurance, investments, etc. with our family members.

He may be embarrased or scared about his past or his current state. It's probably pretty hard to admit that you might be a terrible financial person. I was for a long time. Part of the lying may come from the fact that he's just scared to discuss some things with you. For example [and I'm not saying that your SO does this], he may be afraid of the response he'll get if he calls and informs you that he wants to go out for a drink after work. So instead, he'll call and say he's "working late." The "working late" lie may get a better response from you. Or the infamous "traffic was terrible lie" if he was supposed to leave at a certain time but didn't. Instead of saying "I'm leaving late," "bad traffic" may solicit a better response from you.

IMHO, for two people to be totally honest with each other, they have to feel totally comfortable talking about everything. I don't know anyone like this. I suppose you can try and talk about finances and the like, and try and convince him that his way is a road to ruin, and your way will lead to financial stability and possibly ER!! I'm sure being able to stop working before 60 is a great incentive. If he doesn't want to or won't talk, you're probably going to be at an impass and you're probably going to have to make it perfectly clear that if he wants to stay your SO [and possibly DH], this is what needs to happen.

My wife and I had a couple of discussions about the division of labor in our marriage [finances, investing, etc.]. It has made our lives soooooo much easier and nicer.

- Alec
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 07:19 PM   #30
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

When I got married a couple of years ago, my husband was a big spender without savings. He would run up a credit card all year long and would pay it off with his bonus. His motto was 'you never know when you are going to die, so you might as well enjoy it now'. His bank account would drop to about 0 every month. I was getting nightmares about spending my golden years as a Walmart greeter. At least he did not mess up his credit.

Just before we got married, he refinanced the house to pay off the credit card that he ran up way too high - so we started again with a full mortgage. We decided to keep our own accounts and split only the big stuff in half. The house payments also went into half. I paid off my share of the house in 2 years. I barely checked my bank account whereas DH checked his all the time to ensure that he did not start bouncing checks. It did not take him too long to figure out that I was not sacrificing my life. He has no balance on his CC no more. Paid off the car. He paid off his share on the house pretty quickly too. He hates talking about money or bills or anything like that. I do all the taxes. He maxes out his 401K and does some other after tax stuff and does not think about it too much. I am glad it worked out very well. Of course I was called a cheapskate a lot in the beginning, but he figured out that that was actually not that bad.

If you don't trust your fiance for whatever kind of reasons, I would definitely extend the engagement period or maybe even reconsider the whole relationship. However, there are more qualities to people than their money management skills (although very important). If you just found out his lack of financial responsibillty, I would see how whether you can work together to improve that. People on this board are generally very financially responsible. However, the majority of the population in this country is absolutely not.

Vicky
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 08:28 PM   #31
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

Thanks everyone for all of your responses. I still am not sure what is going to happen.

To me there are two issues - the money management (lack thereof) and the trust. I am especially surprised because when I was in college I fell into the credit card trap and ran up a big balance relative to my measely income. When I graduated, I scrimped and skipped a lot of nights out so that I could put everything possible toward paying it off, because I did not want to be chained in debt. Through all of this, I was always open with him even though I was embarrassed to have spent so much with nothing to show for it. So I wonder why couldn't he trust me to understand his problems and help him come out of the hole?

My bank did not check his credit - as I said it's a small bank and I just asked the loan officer if we could add my fiance to help get his score up. I am still the one making payments.

I wonder this - if I said that if these money secrets were erased, and he had a clean score, I would be perfectly happy, would everyone still give the same advice. Some of my friends say, well, at least he isn't cheating on you. But to me, dishonesty is dishonesty is dishonesty.
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 08:49 PM   #32
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

from Ha:*
Quote:
But I understand your point. I am Irish, and like many Irish-Americans I know, I haven't had too much to drink in 35 years. Yet every spring I get to hear about the drunken Irishmen, and it does get old.

Mikey (Ha)
Know the feeling, Ha.* Me sainted mother got her citizenship here after 45 years of marriage to me Da.* Prior to that I spent formative school years with her in Ireland.* Nevermind that I take maybe two / three drinks a year, to be social.* I still get the drunken Irish jokes.* Pah!

Have you read "How the Irish Saved Civilization?"* Great antidote to the Irish jokes!

Caroline
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 06-30-2005, 10:28 PM   #33
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

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Originally Posted by Have Funds, Will Retire
TH - was that a freudian slip, or a typo...*
Sometimes a TH is just a TH.
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 07-01-2005, 12:18 AM   #34
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 07-01-2005, 08:59 AM   #35
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

Or not TH...

Is that a question??

I hate to be glib or flippant about a relationship, and certainly don't feel I'm an expert on relationships, love, etc...

Middle road seems to be step on the brakes, and pretend you're in a school zone. Drive 20mph for as long as it takes for you to be comfortable. It's easier to get married than divorced...

"Love is a Wonderful Thing" - Michael Bolton

"Love Stinks" - J. Geils Band

(Both are true...)
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 07-01-2005, 10:20 AM   #36
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

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Originally Posted by Have Funds, Will Retire
Or not TH...

Is that a question??

I hate to be glib or flippant about a relationship, and certainly don't feel I'm an expert on relationships, love, etc...

Middle road seems to be step on the brakes, and pretend you're in a school zone. Drive 20mph for as long as it takes for you to be comfortable. It's easier to get married than divorced...

"Love is a Wonderful Thing" - Michael Bolton

"Love Stinks" - J. Geils Band

(Both are true...)
So far, the biggest problems in my life have been caused by women (sometimes
I had only myself to blame). Mom is exempted of course.

JG
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 07-01-2005, 01:38 PM   #37
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

The biggest problems in my life have been caused by ignoring obvious danger signals because my heart doesnt have any brains. Along with a few other parts.

The women involved were simply accessories to the damage.
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 07-01-2005, 08:28 PM   #38
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

How true...
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 07-02-2005, 05:58 AM   #39
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

Agree!
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible
Old 07-02-2005, 03:11 PM   #40
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Re: Partner not as financially responsible

In fact, I knew what was going to happen.

See michael douglas's character in 'basic instinct'. Sometimes an ice pick isnt much of a deterrent.

Sillysal...I dont think anyone answered your question, which I think says 'would you give the same advice if he paid off the debts and flew straighter'? I would give the same advice. Tread slowly and carefully.
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