View Poll Results: Who will survive early retirement better?
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33 years old, $1.2 million, 3 kids, $65,000 expenses/yr, healthy
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4 |
5.00% |
53 years old, $700,000, no kids, $40,000 expenses/yr, healthy
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76 |
95.00% |
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Poll:Who has a better chance of surviving early retirement ?
04-02-2016, 11:11 AM
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#1
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,972
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Poll:Who has a better chance of surviving early retirement ?
If you had 2 friends, who has a chance of better survival into early retirement? Both are healthy and no medical problems.
1) First friend is 33 years old, the guy has $1.2 million dollars and 3 kids (below 12 years old), and he and his wife retires permanently. Yearly expenses is around $65,000. When they reach 62 or 63 - social security income is a bit small. They have 29-30 years to get any social security benefits.
2) Second friend is 53 years old, the guy has $700,000 dollars, he and his wife retires permanently, no kids at all. Yearly expenses is around $40,000. When they reach 62, social security income is bigger than the first friend. They have 9 - 10 years to get any social security benefit.
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04-02-2016, 11:16 AM
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#2
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
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Yikes! I didn't vote for either one, because it sounds like neither is well prepared for the retirement they have in mind.
But then, maybe I'm wrong about that. I'd suggest to either one that they should run FIRECalc, and see what it says, and come back and tell us about the results.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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04-02-2016, 11:18 AM
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#3
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,186
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Yesterday was April Fool's Day. This is a joke, right?
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"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
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04-02-2016, 11:57 AM
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#4
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,212
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For giggles I put it into firecalc.
For the younger couple I assumed $20k/year SS starting in 30 years. I put in a 50 year retirement.
For the older couple I assumed $30/year SS starting in 15 years. I put in a 40 year retirement.
The younger couple fails half the time.
The older couple has a 98% success rate. Despite the lower assets, they have a lower spend, fewer years, and more SS income coming online.
My assumptions could be off - you didn't list them. Feel free to run your own simulations on firecalc...
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Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 6%, rental income 20%
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04-02-2016, 12:20 PM
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#5
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi
For the older couple I assumed $30/year SS starting in 15 years.
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$30K/year SS with a retirement budget of $40K? Pfft. All they'd need other than SS is a paper route I suppose.
Of course you are right, but I agree with you, that it's all in the assumptions. I think we'd get a better answer if they ran FIRECalc themselves.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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04-02-2016, 12:35 PM
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#6
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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The older couple.
I voted then saw that the majority agreed.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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04-02-2016, 12:39 PM
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#7
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Colorado Mountains
Posts: 3,165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R
... All they'd need other than SS is a paper route I suppose.
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Ug! Can I assume you never had a paper route? Getting up and 4:00 am or so every day to deliver papers is not my idea of retirement.
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04-02-2016, 01:12 PM
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#8
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,448
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Don't tell the MMM forum that a family of 5 can't retire with $1.2m at 33...unless you want them to get their pitchforks...
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04-02-2016, 01:23 PM
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#9
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,186
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If I assume that the older couple spent the 20 years between 33 and 53 yrs old being extremely miserable, literally wishing they were dead due to an extreme hate of their careers, then the younger couple's situation looks pretty good. They still have the chance to retire, perhaps reducing expenses when the kids are gone, to a lifestyle where everyday is a true pleasure.
It's hard to put a value on the worth of quality time. OP did not specify the motivations for retiring for either couple. But, there might be issues beyond straight forward monetary calculations.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
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04-02-2016, 03:01 PM
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#10
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,972
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No, the older couple spend their 20 years traveling 25 - 30 countries and lived the good life ... and that's why they were not able to save $1 million+. And now, they don't need to travel abroad to Europe or Asia anymore.
So, the old couple already had the great life. The younger couple - not yet. They just worked and save, no travel, nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
If I assume that the older couple spent the 20 years between 33 and 53 yrs old being extremely miserable, literally wishing they were dead due to an extreme hate of their careers, then the younger couple's situation looks pretty good. They still have the chance to retire, perhaps reducing expenses when the kids are gone, to a lifestyle where everyday is a true pleasure.
It's hard to put a value on the worth of quality time. OP did not specify the motivations for retiring for either couple. But, there might be issues beyond straight forward monetary calculations.
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__________________
No to consumerism, Living a simple life, enjoying the experience - not the material stuff
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04-02-2016, 03:10 PM
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#11
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,186
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__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
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04-02-2016, 03:23 PM
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#12
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soupcxan
Don't tell the MMM forum that a family of 5 can't retire with $1.2m at 33...unless you want them to get their pitchforks...
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Ah but over there a family of 5 would be allowed to spend 30K/year max, 65K is just stupidly luxurious!
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04-02-2016, 03:32 PM
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#13
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudd
Ah but over there a family of 5 would be allowed to spend 30K/year max, 65K is just stupidly luxurious!
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We've had years where our medical or dental expenses alone were more than $30K (braces for more than one family member). The biggest medical expense year was pre-ACA, but who knows what the future will hold. The ACA has not been around very long and who knows how long the current rates will continue or if asset based premium pricing will kick in.
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Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
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04-02-2016, 03:37 PM
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#14
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,003
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Older. Shorter time frame with similar draw down.
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"The mountains are calling, and I must go." John Muir
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04-02-2016, 03:39 PM
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#15
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyber888
No, the older couple spend their 20 years traveling 25 - 30 countries and lived the good life ... and that's why they were not able to save $1 million+. And now, they don't need to travel abroad to Europe or Asia anymore.
So, the old couple already had the great life. The younger couple - not yet. They just worked and save, no travel, nothing.
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Both couples are stated to be healthy. But disaster can strike anytime, even for young people. I have read plenty of stories of people dying of terrible diseases before they reach 50, and indeed some even in their 30s.
So, the 50-ish couple can always say they have had 5 decades on earth, while there's no guarantee that the 30-ish couple will even make it to 50.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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04-02-2016, 03:55 PM
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#16
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW-Bound
Both couples are stated to be healthy. But disaster can strike anytime, even for young people. I have read plenty of stories of people dying of terrible diseases before they reach 50, and indeed some even in their 30s or 40s.
So, the 50-ish couple can always say they have had 5 decades on earth, while there's no guarantee that the 30-ish couple will even make it to 50.
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You make an interesting argument that's it's better to be older than younger....... I wish I could buy into that, but at 68 yo, I can't.
Geezer - "I've had a nice life. It's mostly behind me now but no one can take the memories away from me so I'm glad I'm old and there is no risk that I'll have a short life."
Youngster - "The adventure of life is ahead of me, but gosh, I could die young. To avoid that risk, I wish I could just go to sleep and wake up old knowing that I survived to geezerhood!"
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
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04-02-2016, 07:42 PM
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#17
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
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Then let's play!
I say one of the younger couple is the prodigy of Bill & Melinda Gates, and set to inherit the few % that isn't given to charity (which is still ~ 1B?)!
And I still want to know the story behind the extended "[ * ]" that trailed cyber888's posts for a long time (I think he was blaming the forum software?).
-ERD50
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04-02-2016, 08:13 PM
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#18
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Williston, FL
Posts: 3,925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyber888
1) First friend is 33 years old, the guy has $1.2 million dollars and 3 kids (below 12 years old), and he and his wife retires permanently. Yearly expenses is around $65,000. When they reach 62 or 63 - social security income is a bit small. They have 29-30 years to get any social security benefits.
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If the $1.2M is in tax-deferred accounts, this couple has it made if they can keep their AGI income low.
__________________
FIRE no later than 7/5/2016 at 56 (done), securing '16 401K match (done), getting '15 401K match (done), LTI Bonus (done), Perf bonus (done), maxing out 401K (done), picking up 1,000 hours to get another year of pension (done), July 1st benefits (vacation day, healthcare) (done), July 4th holiday. 0 days left. (done) OFFICIALLY RETIRED 7/5/2016!!
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04-02-2016, 09:43 PM
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#19
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 567
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The older couple has better odd since the young one has children, children have accidents and illnesses too so 5 people with something could go wrong. They might be able to cut expenses and once the kids are grown might be ok but the budget could blow. The older couple in 10 years would have spent 400K from savings but it might have investment returns and they probably have a home that will be paid off. Their main risk is when one dies and the other has to live on one SS check.
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04-03-2016, 07:56 AM
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#20
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 8,765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator
If the $1.2M is in tax-deferred accounts, this couple has it made if they can keep their AGI income low.
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How? I must be missing something. Even leaving aside the difficulty of getting money out of tax deferred accounts at age 33, they will have to pay the normal 15% bracket on most of the withdrawals on the $65K, which is too high an amount to be safe anyway. If the money was in taxable accounts, they could play some games and minimize taxes, although the 5.42% WR is still too high to be safe.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
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