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Old 06-15-2013, 02:13 PM   #21
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I'm going to redefine some words to meet my personal preferences. That way I can describe myself as young and handsome.
That's how I keep describing myself to DW. I can't figure out why she keeps rolling her eyes...
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:32 PM   #22
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The thing is that for some things it is very easy to draw a line and say some is X or isn't X. Retirement, I submit, due to changes in the world is no longer one of those things where I can reasonably make that determination for someone else.

Back in the dark ages, my dad retired. He was clearly retired and never had another job. However, one day he was out taking a walk and he started picking up cans. He would then sell them for money. Now, there are people who would say that since he actually sold them for money then he was "working" and so no longer retired. On the other hand had he thrown them in the trash then he would be retired.

There are many more examples of this in the more modern world. Let's say I write a blog (I don't) and I accept no ads or anything and the blog is an expense. Most would say that person is still retired. On the other hand, let's say I put an ad link in there and collect ad money. Is that person still retired? I would say, yes, if the person has the mindset of being retired. On the other hand, if the person feels that blogging is his/her occupation and that they want and need to blog to earn a living then, no.

If I get up on some mornings and surf the internet and putter around on the internet, careful to earn no money then most would say that is a retirement activity. On the other hand, if I get paid for some of the puttering around on the internet then some say that is not retired even if I don't need the money and are doing it for fun but happen to get paid.

To me there is enough gray area in these things (blogging with ad revenue? owning a rent house? consulting? selling garage sale items for a profit? a volunteer activity that someone will pay you for?) that I don't feel a need to tell someone you are or aren't retired and would leave it to the individual.

I don't find this particularly confusing, either. If someone retired spent 5 hours this week choosing - while FI - to do something that earned money how is that more confusing than if that same person instead watched TV for 5 hours?

By all means, I think that if your personal definition for retirement is not doing anything that could possibly earn money then go for it. I just don't see the need to tell other people that if they went to a garage sale and bought something that they resold for a profit on eBay that somehow they are wrong to call themselves retired.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:23 PM   #23
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Back in the dark ages, my dad retired. He was clearly retired and never had another job. However, one day he was out taking a walk and he started picking up cans. He would then sell them for money. Now, there are people who would say that since he actually sold them for money then he was "working" and so no longer retired. On the other hand had he thrown them in the trash then he would be retired.

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Remember Kat, we're discussing this in a thread where the question is "employment" after FIRE. The example given was working for Costco in the clothing department folding shirts. I have no problem with doing that, but my choice would be to refer to myself as working part time.

You're the only one bringing up mundane activities like collecting cans, etc. and questioning whether that would remove someone's "retired" status. OP asked his question about being "employed" after FIRE.

Some of us seem to think that resuming employment after retirement probably means you went back to work. If you disagree, no problem. This would hardly be the first time definitions, jargon, terminology, etc., have been debated without resolution on this board!

I get it that your view is different.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:29 PM   #24
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Remember Kat, we're discussing this in a thread where the question is "employment" after FIRE.

You're the only one bringing up mundane activities like collecting cans, etc. and questioning whether that would remove someone's "retired" status. OP asked his question about being "employed" after FIRE.
I don't think it makes a difference. I use those examples I used to show how the line is not as clearcut as some say. They are meant to be examples to show that what retirement is depends on the person.

That said, I don't see employment itself as keeping someone from being retired under certain conditions. If the job is one that one is doing to have fun or pass the time and the person is FI and the job is serving the same function that someone else might use for a volunteer activity then I don't see that the fact that money is being earned means the person isn't retired. I think the individual needs to make that determination in deciding whether the employment is such that they don't consider themselves retired or not.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:43 PM   #25
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That said, I don't see employment itself as keeping someone from being retired under certain conditions..
There are probably exceptions to the rule for every definition or concept if "certain conditions" are met. But if some "retired" person tells me they're seeking employment, I'd tend to think that that meant they were leaving retirement status and going back to full or part time work. You'd prefer to think they remain "retired."

That's OK. Just different ways of looking at things.
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:06 PM   #26
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But if some "retired" person tells me they're seeking employment, I'd tend to think that that meant they were leaving retirement status and going back to full or part time work. You'd prefer to think they remain "retired."
I wouldn't prefer to think anything of the kind. I would think telling the truth if they said they were retired and working a part-time job (for example) for fun or to pass the time the time and that they were still retired. On the other hand, I would also think they were telling the truth if they said that they wanted more money and were going back to work because they didn't feel comfortable with what they had. It isn't up to me to determine if they are or aren't retired.
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:24 AM   #27
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I've pretty much become accustomed to the reality that there is a lot of spinning going on, here and everywhere.

What you folks previously did not know is that I am a billionaire with a 25 year old Russian girlfriend who is right now sitting on my lap and rubbing my curly locks.

However tomorrow AM I'll jump out of our bed and head off to my fun job at
McDonalds. I feel sure she'll be here when I return. I'll take a bath to get the grease out of my hair, and then it's party time again! We'll have $250 bottles of Champagne, foie gras, oysters and lobster flown in from Maine.

Then early to bed, to get ready for the fun breakfast shift at Mickey's.

By the way, I'd like to have a good job, and I would do it for the money, and I would never again admit to being retired, because I would be working and to me this is a higher position than "retired". Retired is easier, but that is its only advantage in my book. Unless of course my business were one that required me to masquerade as retired. Then retired is just like any other spinning that someone might do for business or other instrumental purpose, and then of course I would be retired.

Ha
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:35 AM   #28
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The old retired/ not retired argument. DW is spreading the word that I'm retired. I am by her standards but not mine. I run into people that say "I hear you're retired". I tell them that I'm still working - maybe one day a week, rarely 2 days a week, sometimes skip a week or so. Even though I sold my share of the business, I still put in a day or so now and then. I'll consider myself employed until I stop work all together. I see nothing wrong with saying "I'm still working". I may never retire by the dictionary definition.
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:41 AM   #29
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The old retired/ not retired argument. DW is spreading the word that I'm retired. I am by her standards but not mine. I run into people that say "I hear you're retired". I tell them that I'm still working - maybe one day a week, rarely 2 days a week, sometimes skip a week or so. Even though I sold my share of the business, I still put in a day or so now and then. I'll consider myself employed until I stop work all together. I see nothing wrong with saying "I'm still working".
Take cover. The retirement reformist movement will be up in arms at your impertinent disregard of their new definition of retirement.

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Old 06-16-2013, 10:07 AM   #30
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IMO, if you retire from your main career but continue to work part time either at the same company, same field of work or any other field of work, you are semi-retired. Nothing wrong with that.

I used to play a heck of a lot of poker online. I even ran an online poker forum. We had all kinds of discussions just like this one about what qualified you as a professional poker player. I made more money playing poker than I did at my real job, but since I had a real job, I considered myself a semi-pro poker player. Had I quit my job and only player poker I would consider myself a professional poker player.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:16 AM   #31
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My point is that whether someone considers him or herself retired should be up to the individual. If I am Ronstar and doing a little bit of work don't consider myself retired then that is fine. In my personal case, I went to a very part-time job with my employer 3 years ago working 1 or 2 days a week and I personally considered myself semi-retired but change just a couple of details and I would have considered myself retired even if I was making the same amount of money. But if I had, say, retired from my job and then started a hobby of going to garage sales and picking up stuff that I resold for a profit on eBay which I was doing for enjoyment and I felt I was retired given the overall circumstances because I was doing it for fun and didn't need the money then I wouldn't think that someone else should be telling me I wasn't retired.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:16 AM   #32
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I'm going to redefine some words to meet my personal preferences. That way I can describe myself as young and handsome.
You crack me up!

But really, I think it is terribly sad that so many people feel the need to re-define the word "retire". No doubt about it. Even the major media have articles on how boomers are re-defining retirement.

Seems that one of the main reasons that people are doing this, is that so few of us can afford to retire any more, in the original sense of "not working". With pensions being frozen, repeated market crashes, and more, seems that many can not afford to actually retire without working.

Whether they "love" their job or not, they are still employed. But hey, I suppose it is up to the individual and if he/she wants to define his/her own lifestyle as being retired, that is up to them. It's still sad.

Peripherally, it is also sad that to see changes in the English language for reasons like this. Granted, it is no longer exactly the language of Shakespeare, but the English language is beautiful IMO and sometimes it seems to be changing so quickly.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:34 AM   #33
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But really, I think it is terribly sad that so many people feel the need to re-define the word "retire". No doubt about it. Even the major media have articles on how boomers are re-defining retirement.
I don't see this as sad. I see it as recognizing that the world is a more complex place, we are all healthier as we get older and we have more options. I see retirement as being about choices to do what you want. And some of those choices might get one the opportunity to make money even though retired from a job. I don't see that as sad. I see that as giving people options to do different things.

I can see that it would be sad if Joe is working full time after he retired because he doesn't have enough money and he really hates that he has to work. Or it being sad that Joe is working as a Walmart greeter to make ends meet.

On the other hand if Joe worked years at a career and retired and starts writing a blog for one and then places an ad on his blog and gets some money then why is that sad?

Or, if Mary starts going to garage sales every weekend (having more time now) and sees some things that are undervalued and she has time to sell them on eBay and thinks that is fun why is that sad?

Or, if John inherits a house and rents it out and it is profitable why is that sad?

Or, if Jane has time to volunteer for an activity after she retires and the activity offers to pay her and she figures for her volunteering, why is that sad?

Assume that all these people have enough money that they could sit at home doing absolutely nothing but they are having fundoing these things but they happen to make money doing them. I see no reason why it is sad. One of the things about retirement is that you can do what you enjoy doing and have blessed freedom. I see nothing sad in choosing to
spend some of your time doing something that happens to make money.

Remember in everything I am saying about how people get to define whether they feel retired I've assumed that the person is financially independent and doing whatever it is that earns money for reasons of fun and enjoyment with no strings attached and could quit at any time that it wasn't fun.

Edit: I think my posts on this are being misunderstood and that it is being thought I am saying something different than what I'm saying. Rather than continue to correct this, I will drop the discussion.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:51 AM   #34
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Rather than continue to correct this, I will drop the discussion.
Well then, you have the last word! Except that my post that you quoted wasn't responding to your posts at all, so you are responding to yourself, I guess, which you are free to do. I know your opinions and chose not to address them at all. Likewise, you sure weren't responding to the majority of my post.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:51 AM   #35
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I saw some posts in another thread, but what have people though about for a post FIRE job,

I'm still a fan of folding shirts at Costco. Shuttle bus driver with cash tips also appeals to me
Perhaps another way to think of it is a post FI job.

After we are FI, I plan to do what I am currently doing (Consulting, Teaching, Writing) at a much reduced intensity. I happen to like my work (ask me again in 10 years tho....) and so I can see myself tapering rather than retiring all at once.
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:27 PM   #36
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I think if you aren't FI and working to pay your bills or you are the at home spouse supporting a working spouse and your household is not FI then you are not retired.

Otherwise every house wife / husband, land lord, blogger, book author or people who work less than 40 hours a week could say they were "retired".

If your long term budget doesn't include things like clothes, or car replacement funds when your household owns a car or two and you have 40+ years left of retirement, or money to pay for baseline health care when you are 50+, then I wouldn't call that household FI.
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:15 PM   #37
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Perhaps another way to think of it is a post FI job.

After we are FI, I plan to do what I am currently doing (Consulting, Teaching, Writing) at a much reduced intensity. I happen to like my work (ask me again in 10 years tho....) and so I can see myself tapering rather than retiring all at once.
+1 - I should have titled this Post FI employment!
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:43 PM   #38
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What you folks previously did not know is that I am a billionaire with a 25 year old Russian girlfriend who is right now sitting on my lap and rubbing my curly locks.
While I certainly appreciate reading all of the thoughtful perspectives, for me Ha's news was by far the most compelling part of this thread.

He will need a new signature, though...

"Para todo mal, novia ruso. Y para todo bien, tambien!"
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:52 PM   #39
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I'll be downshifting from FT to PT work (20 hrs/wk.). I guess I'll call it "semi-retired." Doesn't seem like "retired" is the right label, if you're working PT.
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:17 PM   #40
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"Retirement" covers a spectrum, not a single fixed circumstance. It's like "art". Some people will define it narrowly, others broadly. I'm not understanding how it's any skin off your nose (those who define it narrowly) if someone who defines it broadly claims to be retired. Is your (narrowly defined) status of "retired" diminished or cheapened by someone else's (broadly defined) status of "retired"?

For the narrowly defining crew, when someone says, "I'm retired. Now I <earn money>", instead of contradicting them--"You are NOT retired! You still work!" mentally substitute "I retired from XYZ corp. Now I <earn money>."
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