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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-06-2004, 07:09 AM   #21
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

I agree that as long as handguns are readily available to felons, that sane adults should have the right to carry them. Not that it will actually be of much practical benefit, because the bad guys always draw first, but if that makes people feel more secure, that should be their right.

However, I'm conservative enough to understand and believe in the original intent of the Second Amendment. It was passed to allow individuals the right to own and carry firearms, for the purpose of defending themselves against both other individuals, and tyrannical governments.

But the "arms" that the founders were talking about, for practical purposes, meant single shot muskets and rifles. It was the ultimate form of democracy -- one man, one shot. Handguns were practically irrelevant because hardly anyone used them, for the practical reason that their single shot could not be delivered accurately.

If the founders had been asked whether the "right to bear arms" should include hand grenades, machine guns, rocket launchers, and rapid fire concealable handguns, I seriously believe that they would have been more explicit in excluding those types of anti-democratic tools for mass killing. Fortunately, they were sufficiently wise to design the Constitution in a way that it could be reinterpreted to fit changing circumstances.
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-06-2004, 07:32 AM   #22
 
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

I am a liberal on all social issues. Do not ever confuse this with being in favor of banning guns!

Liberal came from the word liberty!

IMHO, Americans should be free to buy guns, dope, alcohol, abortions, prostitutes or whatever their heart desires. If a couple of lesbians want to get married - fine with me!

The Social Agenda of the far right is mostly about restricting individuals rights to be free. They have used the gun issue as a political wedge and most liberal politicians are not pushing gun control at all!
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-06-2004, 08:11 AM   #23
 
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

I would love to get into Cut-throat's politics, but I have
time constraints today. I will say this about Ted's last
post. Thoughtful as usual. I too have thought about the change in weapons since the Second Amendment was written. It's tricky I agree. My position is that
individuals should be able to acquire and keep just about anything short of WMDs, with just a few
restrictions. And, they shouldn't have to justify why they
want to have legal weapons either,
to any governmental body.
I am not worried about my fellow citizens being armed to the teeth. A government that won't allow it scares the hell out of me! Is this hyperbole?
Yep, but not by much.

John Galt
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-06-2004, 10:50 AM   #24
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

Quote:

IMHO, Americans should be free to buy guns, dope, alcohol, abortions, prostitutes or whatever their heart desires. If a couple of lesbians want to get married - fine with me!
Except for abortion (in some people's mind but not mine) none of the above other than handguns are used in deliberately killing some 15,000 people each year in the United States, and accidentally killing a few hundred more (mostly children). The founders certainly didn't foresee that sort of misuse of "arms," and equating my position against handguns with a position that advocates elimination of rifles and shotguns is a "straw man" argument, because I recognize that these types of arms are as fundamentally different in their impact on society as rocket launchers would be from shotguns. Or should rocket launchers be legalized too?
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-06-2004, 11:33 AM   #25
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

Yes. The govt. needs to butt out of amateur rocketry - they are thorn in the ass of progress and don't get me going on NASA's current management.
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-06-2004, 12:11 PM   #26
 
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

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handguns are used in deliberately killing some 15,000 people each year in the United States, and accidentally killing a few hundred more (mostly children). *
Ted, you should see the movie "Bowling For Columbine" which makes a case that it is the culture in the U.S. rather the gun. IOW - if the hadgun were taken away the deliberate killing would not cease. The gun is only the tool.

This is a lot like saying that banning nailguns would stop urban growth. The hammer used to build plenty of homes!
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-06-2004, 12:45 PM   #27
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

Did you know Napolean once treatened to castrate any Austrian caught with an airgun. German airguns were one of my hobbies in the past. Still have my Feinwerkbau 127 and my left handed recoilless Beeman handgun. And after 25 years, I would hesitate building or launching any rockets.

The intersection of individual responsibility and irresponsibility ALWAYS causes laws to be generated - with varying degrees of success.

Good news - 401k's, IRA's. Bad news the people who really need to use them - don't seem to participate like they should - guess who gets to help them out in their old age, one way or another.
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-06-2004, 03:33 PM   #28
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

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Ted, you should see the movie "Bowling For Columbine" which makes a case that it is the culture in the U.S. rather the gun. IOW - if the hadgun were taken away the deliberate killing would not cease. The gun is only the tool.
This movie was a piece of propaganda to the effect that the culture of violence in the U.S. (which I agree exists) is entirely the fault of rich white guys. What a bunch of populist B.S.!

The killings at Columbine High were actually committed with rapid firing assault weapons that weren't quite handguns but also should be illegal. Sure, there would continue to be murders if handguns were made illegal -- including some with a diminishing residual of handguns that would remain in the hands of nuts and criminals. But the favorite and most effective weapon in the hands of criminals (because of its concealability) would be much more difficult for them to get ahold of. And the cost? People like me who enjoy shooting would need to use rifles and shotguns, or pellet pistols. And people who want to defend their property with firearms would be "forced" to go to the much more effective alternative of shotguns or (to a lesser extent) rifles. To me that would be a fair price to pay for reducing the annual deaths of several times as many people as were killed on 9/11 (although I will admit that a much higher percentage of those killed by handguns are criminals themselves).
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-06-2004, 03:42 PM   #29
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

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Ganda, take a look at this guy http://philip.greenspun.com/ who retired at 40 with 7 million+ from an internet venture. He seems to have absolutely NO problem sharing his daily life on the Internet.
Is that the guy who's big, white fluffy dog was kid, er.., dognapped on a $1M ransom?

I'll just be more careful about what I post where *anyone* could read it.
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-06-2004, 03:47 PM   #30
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

My assault weapon is a dog - with a 12 gauge pump as backup - on 'improved cylinder' since I can't hit the broadside of a barn with a handgun. Do have an 1860 replica Old Army cap and ball - unloaded and locked away.
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-07-2004, 03:41 AM   #31
 
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

One more post re. guns and then back on ER.
Promise!

My position is don't give an inch on guns. Ted says
let's give up handguns because then we will be safer
and I'll still have my long guns. Sorry Ted, but that
is the silliest thing I ever read off your keyboard.
You give up handguns, and soon they will come after
your rifles and shotguns. I guarantee it! So, yes
I am in favor of private ownership of cannons, bazookas, rocket launchers, etc etc. I'll take my chances
out here in the sticks with the rare nut who might kill
me, as opposed to counting on government to protect me. The inmates are already running the
asylum (Washington D.C. for example). That's where
the real danger lies.

John Galt
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-07-2004, 04:41 AM   #32
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

Ahhhh, John Galt, WELL SAID !!!!

I'd love to add something to your post, but it was perfect as is, I couldn't agree more ! OK, I'll let this part of the thread die now, just had to kick in my $0.02.

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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-07-2004, 05:13 AM   #33
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

Quote:
I can't hit the broadside of a barn with a handgun.
Hardly anyone can hit the broad side of a barn with a handgun, which is why it is not nearly as effective for home defense as a shotgun. Most NRA types are just too macho to admit it.
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-07-2004, 10:46 AM   #34
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

Quote:

Is that the guy who's big, white fluffy dog was kid, er.., dognapped on a $1M ransom?

I'll just be more careful about what I post where *anyone* could read it.
Yes, but I had to return the dog to Phil after only a month because the dog just ate too much. Also, he kept sniffing my cat "the wrong way."
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-07-2004, 11:53 AM   #35
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

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It's been 25 years, since I shot expert and got a ribbon, but given a barreta, 15 shots, and your silhoutte at reasonably close range -- there would be enough holes to make a suitable impression.
Good for you, Tex. But if your "enemy" had a shotgun and any idea at all how to use it, you would be lucky to get one shot off.
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?
Old 02-07-2004, 12:04 PM   #36
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Re: Retiring at 33, where to invest the money?

Boy you know I typed a long reply to this yesterday and then changed my mind. Oh well. Bear in mind that when I worked as a camp counsellor in my earlier years playing babysitter to overprivileged kids, teaching them to handle guns and the art of marksmanship was one of my areas of specialty, outdone only by my skill with a bow. I've been around firearms most of my life and understand them, their ups and downs, and the affect they have on people.

While its said that most people are liberals in their youth and become more conservative in their older years, I think i'm going the other way.

The chief problem with guns, and with most other things in fact, is that most reasonable and rational people apply their own reasonability and rationality to everyone else, or at least to the majority. This while failing to note that even they themselves act unreasonably and irrationally a large percentage of the time.

A shotgun IS the best home defense tool simply because it requires very little accurate aiming. Stats show that a huge percentage of handgun users empty the gun either without hitting the intruder(s) or inflicting fairly minor injuries. In many other cases the homeowner fails to reach the gun. A better option is to hop out the window or lock the door and call 911 rather than putting yourself in a life threatening situation.

A gun is like any other tool in that it creates an advantaged opportunity in specific circumstances, such as hunting and protection. Unfortunately its a terrific offensive weapon as well. People are brain fed through the media to see shooting someone dead as a common and fairly easy way to resolve a situation. You pull the trigger, bang, they fall silently to the ground, its over.

Giving everyone a handgun to equalize the playing field doesnt sound like a good idea either, because I know for sure most people arent as well measured as I am and I wouldnt trust myself with a handgun. This isnt limited in my mind to guns, but to any "quick kill" tool. I remember a scene from about 10 years ago when a guy cut another guy off in traffic, middle fingers were exchanged and they pulled over for some extracurricular activities. The guy in front produced a small crossbow and according to witnesses "with a smile on his face" he shot the other guy in the chest, killing him. His friends and relatives expressed shock that he would have done this as he was such a "level headed guy".

I wonder what the "founding fathers" would have written into the constitution if they had a preview of weapons that would allow a single man to do more damage in an hour than a regiment in their time could do in a day. As a student of the constitution, it reads to me that their intent was to provide tools for the populace to form a militia in times of need to protect the country or to overthrow a government that is no longer serving their interests.

One isnt needed any longer, and good luck with the other one.

I still like the one comedian who had what seemed to me like a fairly plausible solution. Give everyone a gun but make bullets cost $10,000 each. Guns arent the problem. Cheap bullets are the problem

In my case, theres a baseball bat behind the front door and one tucked between my bed and nightstand. If you value your knees you'll think twice about "dropping by" with ill will in mind...

Oh yeah, this will be after they "meet" my half rottweiller half mastiff dogs.
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