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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 10:57 AM   #21
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Re: Will

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Originally Posted by Azanon
Congradulations on completely evading my accusation. Do you think anyone didnt notice that?
Um, what accusation?

What I am getting at is that even though your poor wife will get custody of your son if you croak, your estate may be tied up in a long, messy process that will be expensive. A modest expenditure now would save a lot of trouble and expense down the road if you drop dead.
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 10:58 AM   #22
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Re: Will

- You don't want to pay for even basic estate planning

And you pay $1800 for a life insurance policy when you're not worth that much

- You don't carry eough life insurance to protect your wife and son

.... from not having to do anything for themselves for the rest of their lives. No I dont do that.

- You fantasize about having someone pay for the will and taking care of your responsibilities if you croak

- actually if i asked, he would pay for it. The only outstanding issue is what he'd think of me. Remember, not everyone's family is like yours; we help each other in our family.

- You don't appear concerned that your survivors could be stuck in probate waiting for Godot and racking up beaucoup fees

No, i'm not concerned if someone in my family has to be inconvinenced taking care of responsibilities. That's life. If i really wanted inconvinence, i'd go through all the trouble of paying for and getting a will now.
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 10:59 AM   #23
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Re: Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azanon
No, i'm not concerned if someone in my family has to be inconvinenced taking care of responsibilities.
Unless it is you.


In any case, none of this applies to OP.
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 11:01 AM   #24
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Re: Will

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Unless it is you.


In any case, none of this applies to OP.
Then quit attacking every post i make talking about purple fairies. Really, no one's interested.
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 11:03 AM   #25
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Re: Will

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Originally Posted by Azanon
Then quit attacking every post i make talking about purple fairies. Really, no one's interested.
Unicorns, dammit, not fairies. You live in Arkansas, not the Castro District.
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 11:06 AM   #26
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Re: Will

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Unicorns, dammit, not fairies. You live in Arkansas, not the Castro District.
LOL.

You're alright with me Brewer. We nitpick each other, but there's so many other people out there not doing anything financially right.
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 12:05 PM   #27
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Re: Will

I did separate this will discussion out from the insurance thread.

Az, the main reason for you to have estate planning done now is in case both you and your spouse die so you can express your wishes as to who will take care of your child and any money your child inherits. You did acknowledge that. Given that you live in Arkansas and you should have a simple estate plan at this point in your life, odds are you will get by with paying less than $1800. Make a couple of calls. Maybe your dad's lawyer will give you a discount.

Another thing to think about is a power of attorney (and maybe a health care directive) in case you and/or your wife become disabled. At the very least it is nice to have someone who could pay your bills.

And since you were also talking about not having an umbrella policy, but acknowledging it might be a good idea, I suggest you spring for one in the one or two million dollar range.



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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 12:06 PM   #28
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Re: Will

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Originally Posted by Martha

And since you were also talking about not having an umbrella policy, but acknowledging it might be a good idea, I suggest you spring for one in the one or two million dollar range.
Martha, for those of us living in more litigious states, what do you think is a reasonable policy limit for an umbrella? I've only got $1MM now, and I suspect I am uninsured on that front.
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 12:17 PM   #29
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Re: Will

I think in determining the amount of an umbrella it is nice to know what kind of range in size are personal injury verdicts in your area. For example, where I live it would be extraordinarily rare to have a million dollar plus verdict. NJ? I don't know, but I guess it would be larger. Given that the cost increase from a one million to a two million policy isn't large, I would go for two. Talk to your insurance agent about the amount.

If you have next to no nonexempt assets, I wouldn't worrly about an umbrella policy, but once you begin to acquire assets, I strongly believe an umbrella policy is important. But the amount isn't something that would necessarily correlate with the amount of assets you have, but with how big settlements and judgments are in your part of the country.

But of course, you be visiting another state and have an accident there. So this isn't scientific or anything.
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 12:18 PM   #30
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Re: Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
A modest expenditure now would save a lot of trouble and expense down the road if you drop dead.
Why do our politicians have things set up this way? Why is it that the laws are written so that your family gets screwed if you don't do an estate plan but if you pay lawyers to do one, you'll be OK? Could it be that way because politicians are predominantly lawyers?

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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 12:22 PM   #31
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Re: Will

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Originally Posted by Martha
I think in determining the amount of an umbrella it is nice to know what kind of range in size are personal injury verdicts in your area.
Any clue where I would find this out? I also work in one of the most expensive/wealthy areas in the country (planet?).
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 12:24 PM   #32
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Re: Will

Azanon, wills for both yourself and your wife are very important because you have a child and you care what happens should the both of you die. That alone is reason enough for each of you to prepare wills. There are other things that you should prepare, such as a health care directive and a power of attorney for health care. I doubt that Arkansas attornies charge as much as those in New Jersey and since I guess you don't have much in the way of an estate at the moment they can be simple documents.

Don't put your child at risk for a family fight over primary custody, but make sure that the other grandparents have reasonable visitation.

If the both of you don't prepare a will your child's future will be decided by your state child welfare system and a conservitor may end up 'managing' your estate for the child. Do you want the State of Arkansas to do that for you?
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 12:39 PM   #33
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Re: Will

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Originally Posted by brewer12345
Any clue where I would find this out? I also work in one of the most expensive/wealthy areas in the country (planet?).
That's a tough one. In my state there is a publication for lawyers that always lists large settlements and verdicts. Very helpful to read. For the general public? I don't know. But I would think that a good insurance agent should have a feel for this.
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 12:45 PM   #34
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Re: Will

I should mention that even if you state in a will or in some other documents who should be guardian for your child, this doesn't mean that absolutely for sure it will happen. A court is going to do what is in the child's best interests and if some relative comes along and says that the appointed person would be horrible, there still could be litigation. Nevertheless, it is a wise thing to do and it will carry weight. It also may be a wise thing to say who you don't want to be guardian, as Az mentioned the worry about his inlaws being guardian. But I would talk to your estate planner about that.
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 01:47 PM   #35
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Re: Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azanon

No, i'm not concerned if someone in my family has to be inconvinenced taking care of responsibilities. That's life. If i really wanted inconvinence, i'd go through all the trouble of paying for and getting a will now.
It's a relatively cheap and minor inconvenience for you now, compared to a major and expensive inconvenience for your family after you die.
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 01:51 PM   #36
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Re: Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azanon
- You don't want to pay for even basic estate planning

And you pay $1800 for a life insurance policy when you're not worth that much

- You don't carry eough life insurance to protect your wife and son

.... from not having to do anything for themselves for the rest of their lives. No I dont do that.

- You fantasize about having someone pay for the will and taking care of your responsibilities if you croak

- actually if i asked, he would pay for it. The only outstanding issue is what he'd think of me. Remember, not everyone's family is like yours; we help each other in our family.

- You don't appear concerned that your survivors could be stuck in probate waiting for Godot and racking up beaucoup fees

No, i'm not concerned if someone in my family has to be inconvinenced taking care of responsibilities. That's life. If i really wanted inconvinence, i'd go through all the trouble of paying for and getting a will now.
Heck, I gotta jump in, can't let you guys have ALL the fun............ First of all, I am living the hell firsthand learning a lot about improper estate planning being the executor of my sister's estate. While not large, the obstacles and problems I have had are staggering......... And I shudder to think of those people who don't have the knowledge I have, and how they fare with attorneys and banks and such........... :P

My sister was a brilliant person, but like a lot of bright people, they don't take care of things they should. One would think that if you found out you had cancer, you might put your affairs in order, just in case? But, my sister did not, and it's a mess............

Azanon, I'd like to give you a scenario to think about. You die tomorrow without any beneficiaries named besides your wife. You also die without enough life insurance to replace your earnings to your wife. What happens to your kid, whom you love very much?

a)If your wife is not working, she has to go to work to earn a living to carry one, so your kid JUST LOST his father to death, and NOW loses his MOTHER to work.....not a great deal for him. So she has to get married again to someone for ECONOMIC reasons, not because she loves him..........nice legacy............

b)Your kid is not successor beneficiary? That's ok, your wife gets all your assets because you're married, no problem, right? Except she gets NO BENEFIT from your unified tax credit exemption, so your son can pay Uncle Sam a nice chunk in taxes on your wife's assets if she dies. Pretty sweet, huh?

c)And, let's say after a proper grieving period (I told DW it better be YEARS! ) she gets married again. Now her new husband who is no relation to YOUR biological child is the beneficiary. So when she dies, he gets all the money and can do what he wants. So you better hope he loves your kid, or good luck................

In case you think this can't happen, I am the bearer of bad news. I have personally seen stuff like this happen to my clients...............

BTW, if you get divorced, MAKE SURE you change the beneficiaries on your accounts, or you could be providing ER to your spouse's BF/GF/SPOUSE...................

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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 01:56 PM   #37
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Re: Will

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
It's a relatively cheap and minor inconvenience for you now, compared to a major and expensive inconvenience for your family after you die.
I always write my own (just redid it last week). I recognize that my kids
and executor will have to do some work after I am gone. I tried to do more
anticipatory decision-making, but in the end I left it mostly for them. They all know this.

JG
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Re: Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 02:10 PM   #38
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Re: Re: Will

We did our wills a few years ago with WillMaker (back in the DOS age). Here's my rationalization for not updating it or redoing it with a lawyer.

1. If just DW or I die, almost everything is in both our names, and all retirement accounts have the other as the beneficiary.

2. If both of us die, DD is the secondary beneficiary on everything. She is 18 and there's plenty (too much?) in just the IRA's to set her up fine.

3. We've already set up living will, medical power of attorney, etc.

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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 02:18 PM   #39
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Re: Will

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Originally Posted by FinanceDude
Heck, I gotta jump in, can't let you guys have ALL the fun............
I was so nervous this meant i was about to read something rude, when they weren't rude. You were nice, so thanks.

Before i comment at all, i said i know i need a will. But I'll respond.

Quote:
First of all, I am living the hell firsthand learning a lot about improper estate planning being the executor of my sister's estate. While not large, the obstacles and problems I have had are staggering......... And I shudder to think of those people who don't have the knowledge I have, and how they fare with attorneys and banks and such........... :P

My sister was a brilliant person, but like a lot of bright people, they don't take care of things they should. One would think that if you found out you had cancer, you might put your affairs in order, just in case? But, my sister did not, and it's a mess............
If i came down with anything terminal, you can rest assured i'd have a very nice will done. I dont get your sister either.

Quote:
Azanon, I'd like to give you a scenario to think about. You die tomorrow without any beneficiaries named besides your wife. You also die without enough life insurance to replace your earnings to your wife. What happens to your kid, whom you love very much?

a)If your wife is not working, she has to go to work to earn a living to carry one, so your kid JUST LOST his father to death, and NOW loses his MOTHER to work.....not a great deal for him. So she has to get married again to someone for ECONOMIC reasons, not because she loves him..........nice legacy............
She works part time now, but i dont think so harshly of my son being away from her during working hours. I'm of the opinion my son gets a lot of benefit being around the other kids and people at his preschool so he's learning how to relate to other people even now. Its a sacrifice, but I think it actually benefits him. Of course she'd still get time with him in the evenings and on weekends. Even full time, she'd only work 40 hrs/week.

Remember too, if i died, i've already said i have no doubt whatsoever that my dad would meet every single financial need of hers left hanging. Though he'd be sorry to lose me (and i would be sorry to lose him), he'd feel so honored to be able to help her and my son in any way that she needs.

This man is worth 3 mil, lives in the middle of nowhere in AR, has very minimal expenses, and a heart the size of Texas. He loves her and asked me in confidence once "where in the world did you find such a wonderful woman".

Quote:
b)Your kid is not successor beneficiary? That's ok, your wife gets all your assets because you're married, no problem, right? Except she gets NO BENEFIT from your unified tax credit exemption, so your son can pay Uncle Sam a nice chunk in taxes on your wife's assets if she dies. Pretty sweet, huh?
I admit i have no idea what that is, but you're painting a scenario if she dies after I die. You know, maybe she'll write a will if i die. Give her a bit more credit.

Quote:
c)And, let's say after a proper grieving period (I told DW it better be YEARS! ) she gets married again. Now her new husband who is no relation to YOUR biological child is the beneficiary. So when she dies, he gets all the money and can do what he wants. So you better hope he loves your kid, or good luck................
I'm totally ok with anyone she marries gaining control of all finances associated with her. My wife is a very intelligent woman, and wouldnt marry someone without a good heart. I trust her judgement in this regard.

But yes, of course she wont find my equal. I dont worry about "given" stuff.

Quote:
BTW, if you get divorced, MAKE SURE you change the beneficiaries on your accounts, or you could be providing ER to your spouse's BF/GF/SPOUSE...................
Give me a bit more credit than that. Her name wouldnt be on much of anything within a day of the word "divorce" being floated in air. At least a third of my assets would also "poof".
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Re: Will
Old 11-03-2006, 02:27 PM   #40
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Re: Will

I just got the solution to your problems, Az: if you croak, your dad could marry your widow. Solves all the issues at once.
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