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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 08-23-2005, 10:39 AM   #21
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

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Originally Posted by azanon
I look forward to getting where brewer is.

I'm vulnerable.* By that, i mean i'm relatively highly educated (MA biology) but my job is very niche specific, and if i lost it, I probably couldnt get employeed even within my homestate doing what i do.* I would have to look US wide.

Even though i'm a federal employee, i do not feel immune to being fired, laid off, whatever.* *I hate knowing that i'm not FI yet, and how hard it was to get to where i am today.

Probably my primary drive for working towards FI, is to eliminate that vulnerability;* that state of knowing i'd have to sell my house, significantly alter my lifestyle, etc if i were to lose my job.* I literally hate knowing i'm dependant on something that isnt guaranteed.* This is why i am scraping and clawing every dollar i can into my retirement accounts.* *

I cant wait until the day comes that i know i have it made financially, and I have no need to worry about my job anymore, whether i choose to continue to keep it or not.
I think that what I have recently decided is that I don't want to wait until I get to FIRE escape velocity to remove the uncertainty/vulnerability. I have a pretty good job now, but it involves long hours and will probably set me up for burnout after 3 to 5 years. It also could go away very quickly (if the company folds). That being the case, I have started to think of different things I could do that would cover my nut and have some other rewards, like fewer hours, more freedom, or more time spent at home with family. Some of these ideas are jobs, some are business opportunities. Some are realistic now, others only work if I have more capital than I do now (being able to wipe out the mortgage at one go would make the expense base a lot smaller). I still need to spend some time brainstorming for ideas, but I think this is a better way to go than just running the spreadsheet and still seeing that I am years away from my goal.
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 08-23-2005, 10:41 AM   #22
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

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Originally Posted by azanon

I hate knowing that i'm not FI yet, and how hard it was to get to where i am today.

Probably my primary drive for working towards FI, is to eliminate that vulnerability;* that state of knowing i'd have to sell my house, significantly alter my lifestyle, etc if i were to lose my job.* I literally hate knowing i'm dependant on something that isnt guaranteed.* This is why i am scraping and clawing every dollar i can into my retirement accounts.* *
Join the club! *The private sector is no better I can assure you. *I have been working pretty sold for 31 years in the pharma/medical device industry and am in my third major Pharma company. *I spent many years in the golden handcuffs with my previous employer and finally broke free at 50. *While I am still working it is for very different reasons. *I can leave when I want now (with some change in life style) but most days I can't believe they pay me for what I do. *Other days they cannot pay me enough. *It all balances out in the long run. *While many would consider me to be FI, I still have a hard time with cutting loose from the corporate teat. *The benefits prevent me from having to live on my own savings and the medical is paying for a lot of work on this broken down race horse right now. *I look at it as a preventive maintence program for my body. *I have a few more dental issues to get done next year at 50% so I will stick around for that. *Otherwise, I pretty much work month to month. *My next milestone is Oct. 2005. *I will be fully vested in this employer's 401(k) and that will be another chunk in the kitty. *After that, who knows. *When I finally get tired of the BS I will bail or I will just continue to collect my check and sock away the max. in the 401(k) for another month or two or three. *

The feeling that I can FI is nice but at the same time I am not ready to jump ship quite yet. *I guess I keep finding reasons to stay while my DW keeps plugging along for another 23 months. *I think she would not do well with me RE and her still working. *Maritial bliss does have benefits that money cannot buy. *
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 08-23-2005, 10:56 AM   #23
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

I guess what i'm admitting brewer is i dont feel as versatile as you.* *Unfortunately, its more than a state of mind, because it takes certain skills to create new opportunities when you're forced to do that.* Sure, if i was put in that position i would give it my best, but i'm not so sure i'd be lucky enough to land another job equilivant to or better than the one i have now.

Being completely honest, i have a serious confidence problem that i keep hidden from everyone except maybe my spouse, and you guys now.* *I feel like a guy that doesnt really know near what i should for my job or to back up my degree, etc.* * Maybe i do know enough, but i dont feel like i do anyway.* I've developed an art for as least appearing to others like i'm pretty sharp, but I know a lot of it is just a facade.

So, from a rather pessimistic viewpoint;* the question for me is which will happen first;* 1. my cover will be blow* 2. i'll make it to FI first.* * I"m hoping for FI before i'm found out.

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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 08-23-2005, 11:17 AM   #24
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

Quote:
Originally Posted by azanon
I guess what i'm admitting brewer is i dont feel as versatile as you.* *Unfortunately, its more than a state of mind, because it takes certain skills to create new opportunities when you're forced to do that.* Sure, if i was put in that position i would give it my best, but i'm not so sure i'd be lucky enough to land another job equilivant to or better than the one i have now.

Being completely honest, i have a serious confidence problem that i keep hidden from everyone except maybe my spouse, and you guys now.* *I feel like a guy that doesnt really know near what i should for my job or to back up my degree, etc.* * Maybe i do know enough, but i dont feel like i do anyway.* I've developed an art for as least appearing to others like i'm pretty sharp, but I know a lot of it is just a facade.

So, from a rather pessimistic viewpoint;* the question for me is which will happen first;* 1. my cover will be blow* 2. i'll make it to FI first.* * I"m hoping for FI before i'm found out.

Eh, I think everyone feels that way for a greater or lesser amount of time, myself included. I find that I go though times of especially low self confidence and that sometimes I need to remember how I got as far as I have. After that, it is just thinking creatively and putting one foot in front of the next.

FWIW, most of the things that I am coming up with don't require a ton of education, experience or even intelligence. They just require effort and common sense. I am also starting to suspect that if I ddin't have the everyday pressures of work on top of me all the time, I would practically trip over all the opportunities that are actually out there.
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 08-23-2005, 11:52 AM   #25
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

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Originally Posted by P.S.
Hmm, this may sound slightly heretical to ER/FI types, but one can think of it as character building to go through certain experiences in life- the venal boss, unpleasant work/living locations...it makes the prize that much sweeter, the heart that much more grateful.
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, P.S., but this sort of logic is too often used for evil purposes.

The same argument used to be used against homeschooling.* "If these kids learn everything at home and don't have to deal with bullies & bad teachers then they'll never be able to survive in the REAL workplace."* Somehow that justifies society's tolerance of the existence of bullies & bad teachers?!

Same for venal bosses & unpleasant conditions-- they're just as unacceptable.* Wouldn't it be better to avoid all that soul-destroying "character building" and find an avocation where we could achieve financial independence doing what we love?

Stephen Covey used to have his audiences arm-wrestle for cash-- he'd give a dollar to the winner of each match.* They'd strain mightily in vain competition against each other for minutes at a time (about $10/hour per person) until they realized that they didn't have to crush the other guy-- they just had to make the match produce a winner.* Instead of beating each other out of a buck they'd quickly flip their arms back & forth, alternating wins every second and each earning $30/minute.* Cooperation was much more profitable than back-stabbing cubicle competitions.

In the 1970s Tour de France cyclists were advised to avoid sleeping in air-conditioning because "the cold air would make them sick."* So their coaches would bed the suffering cyclists down in hot, stuffy rooms (and then go sleep in their own A/C rooms) and the cyclists wouldn't get much quality rest.* The Americans came along later, questioning everything and too dumb to accept established practices, and started using A/C rooms to give their cyclists a good night's sleep.* Now no one would dream of competing in the Tour without getting adequate rest in a comfortable room.

ER would be unecessary in a perfect world.* You'd enjoy your job but you'd prefer to achieve financial independence early enough to pursue your other interests.* Or you'd enjoy your avocation so immensely that ER, FI, & other interests would be irrelevant.

But it's a lot easier to wax this philosophical when you're already ER'd...
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 08-23-2005, 12:22 PM   #26
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

good post nords. My theory is character building is for kids that can actually learn something, but once you become an adult (and maybe even a teenager), your skull becomes much harder to penetrate and b.s. just adds bitterness, shorter life, and few life lessons.
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 08-23-2005, 12:27 PM   #27
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

Quote:
Originally Posted by P.S.
Hmm, this may sound slightly heretical to ER/FI types, but one can think of it as character building to go through certain experiences in life- the venal boss, unpleasant work/living locations...it makes the prize that much sweeter, the heart that much more grateful.
Yeah. It feels good when you stop beating your head against the wall.
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 08-23-2005, 12:36 PM   #28
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

Speaking from experience, working for a dainbramaged boss is great motivation to start your own business. Learn from his/her mistakes.
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 08-23-2005, 12:42 PM   #29
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

Quote:
Originally Posted by azanon


I cant wait until the day comes that i know i have it made financially, and I have no need to worry about my job anymore, whether i choose to continue to keep it or not.
I will "officially" be eligible to retire later this year. I currently like my job and I still have "unfinished business" in having one son still at home in high school. My wonderful manager is retiring next month. I remember that about 4 of my 31 years of work were for a "jerk". So I regard becoming retirement eligible as "jerk proofing" my work life. My house is paid off, wife retiring June 06 and I could get by right now if I had to and could figure out son's college support. But since I like my job, actually surprised that anyone would pay me for what I do, I will continue as long as it is fun and financially productive. And wife & I get at least one good trip each year and lots of weekends away.

Other then becoming retirement eligible the thing that has allowed me to feel free is a lack of debt. A house with positive equity may be OK but not actually owing anything is remarkably freeing. I know I'm overstating things a bit but I regard modern consumerism as an enlarged "company store" that keeps people in debt to the system. Debt, to me, is a form of slavery, all the worse as it is entered into voluntarily.
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 09-03-2005, 08:53 PM   #30
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

Quote:
Originally Posted by azanon
I look forward to getting where brewer is.

I'm vulnerable. By that, i mean i'm relatively highly educated (MA biology) but my job is very niche specific, and if i lost it, I probably couldnt get employeed even within my homestate doing what i do. I would have to look US wide.

Even though i'm a federal employee, i do not feel immune to being fired, laid off, whatever. I hate knowing that i'm not FI yet, and how hard it was to get to where i am today.

Probably my primary drive for working towards FI, is to eliminate that vulnerability; that state of knowing i'd have to sell my house, significantly alter my lifestyle, etc if i were to lose my job. I literally hate knowing i'm dependant on something that isnt guaranteed. This is why i am scraping and clawing every dollar i can into my retirement accounts.

I cant wait until the day comes that i know i have it made financially, and I have no need to worry about my job anymore, whether i choose to continue to keep it or not.
Really? I would think that as a well educated person working for the Fed, you'd have nothing to worry about. After all, the Fed is competing against all the private biotech companies for your talent. If the Fed can't offer job security, low stress, and lots of vacation time, what's their draw?

Don't get too attached to a particular lifestyle. I know it's easier said than done, but you can always buy another house, move to another state, make new friends, and find new hobbies. Trust me, I have done it six times.
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 09-04-2005, 07:56 AM   #31
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

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Originally Posted by BunsOfVeal

I know it's easier said than done, but you can always buy another house, move to another state, make new friends, and find new hobbies. Trust me, I have done it six times.
No wonder you want to ER.
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 09-04-2005, 08:01 AM   #32
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

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Originally Posted by BunsOfVeal
... but you can always buy another house, move to another state, make new friends, and find new hobbies. Trust me, I have done it six times.
Hmmmmm... Witness protection program? 8)

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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 09-04-2005, 08:19 AM   #33
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

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Originally Posted by BunsOfVeal
Don't get too attached to a particular lifestyle. I know it's easier said than done, but you can always buy another house, move to another state, make new friends, and find new hobbies. Trust me, I have done it six times.
I am sick of moving. A couple of weeks ago I was told that my job will go away this year. Hi tech is working your ass off when they have to get there next technology out of the door or being walked out when it slows down. Activity is also concentrated in a few states only and increasingly overseas. I am happy to leave but this time I will not buy move to another state and start all over again. It is just a J*O*B and I can always make money some other way. The absolute misery and hypocrise of corporate America is enough for me at this time. Bye bye tech and cube farm, will do something else.

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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 09-04-2005, 08:52 AM   #34
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

Vicky, I am hearing the same thing from people I work with. No more IS, no more corp. America. No more loyalty to the company since they have no loyalty to their employees. If they ever did.
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday
Old 09-04-2005, 07:03 PM   #35
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Re: Realized some thing yesterday

Haha, Martha, you certainly tried... No crap I want to FI + RE so that I can stop wandering the land like a high-tech migrant worker and join Lancelot in Thailand with its 89-cent beers and cheap massages. If I offended anyone with that last comment, well, I tried, too.

Witness protection? I wish. They at least give you some walking-around money in witness protection.

Vic's right. When the project is on, it's do whatever it takes, sacrifice your personal life (lost a budding relationship just earlier this year thanks to work), and come in on weekends. Then when the project is done, they show you the door. I almost laughed out loud when an old lab manager from several jobs ago tried to use loyalty as a reason for me to stay. It was all I can do not to fall down to the floor and giggle like and idiot. I'm like, "Yeah, I'm staying and making almost 10K a year less all for loyalty? No thanks."
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Got retiree health care through your company? What if the company goes bankrupt? Retire and go RVing full time? RVs are not structurally sound. You'll die in a fiery crash. Retire and live overseas? What if you die? Aren't you worried about your body? No, I don't think I will be able to seeing how I am dead.
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