Was looking for some feedback and/or advice on Roth vs traditional investing for retirement. As it stands now, I am 100% Roth and max out both the 401k at 16500 and IRA at 5000. There seems to be good arguments for both sides; however, to truly determine which one is the better choice you would need information which is not obtainable. Namely, you would need to know what your portfolio would be worth during retirement and what the tax code would be. This might be somewhat predictable, although not certain, for someone very close to retirement, but for someone at 27 (my age) largely an unknown. Despite the fact that I am single and in the 25% federal tax bracket and the 5.75% state bracket, I still feel that choosing the Roth option is the best choice. Here are my best reasons:
1.) While it would be nice to pay less tax now, I don't feel that paying taxes on my contributions hinders my quality of life. Who knows what retirement may hold? This is more of an emotional reason.
2.) The Roth 401k can be rolled over to a Roth IRA thereby not requiring RMDs. Mandatory distributions during a period of steep portfolio decline could have a profound effect on how long the portfolio could last. In effect, RMDs could force you to sell low. Here is my example and anyone correct me if I am wrong.
Kevin is 72 and the IRS determines his RMD from his portfolio worth on December 31, 2053. This RMD is significantly higher than Kevin determines he needs to withdraw in order to meet yearly living expenses. The market declines drastically leaving Kevin with a 20% loss in his well allocated portfolio. The RMD, calculated from portfolio worth 20% higher, forces Kevin to sell at a loss and to further add insult to injury he must pay taxes on the distributions. Even if Kevin takes the bulk of the RMD and reinvests it, he still has less capital to invest at the lower prices and that capital will no longer grow tax deferred. Avoiding the RMD seems to be a significant advantage for the Roth IRA.
3.) I have nine years total service between the active duty Air Force and the Air National Guard. I plan to stay in for at least twenty years so I will have a small pension beginning at 60 (actually slightly before that due to rule changes affecting how deployments get factored in). More than likely within the next couple of years I will probably seek employment with the FAA which will also add another pension although in my early fifties due to the air traffic controller retirement system. Being conservative, I would estimate the combined worth of these pensions in today's dollars would be around $50,000/yr and they are both COLAd. The pensions are taxed. If, and likely when, I go into the FAA I hope the Roth TSP. I do have some money in the TSP from the my active duty days as well as plan to contribute a little more on each deployment so as to put away more money for retirement than the combined $21,500 a year I do now.
I do have a couple of question though, particularly for those knowledgeable with tax rules and regulations.
Even if the tax structure remains the same and you withdraw the same amount in retirement per year as you earned working per year, you will pay less tax in retirement due to the effective tax rate being lower in retirement. How come the amount of taxes paid on an equal amount of income would not be the same in both retirement and during working years? Just to reemphasize, we are assuming the tax structure remains exact the same pre and post retirement. If this is true, it certainly is one of the strongest arguments for traditional over Roth in terms of tax efficiency. I still would feel that Roth is a better choice for me due mostly to anticipated pensions.
In terms of state income taxes, are you taxed again on Roth withdrawals? My understanding is you are.
Lastly, I suppose you could always split contributions between traditional and Roth. Anyone have any arguments in favor of making contributions to traditional rather than Roth that I'm missing.
Note: I'm also going to post this on the bogleheads site to maximize responses. Thanks in advance to all who reply.
1.) While it would be nice to pay less tax now, I don't feel that paying taxes on my contributions hinders my quality of life. Who knows what retirement may hold? This is more of an emotional reason.
2.) The Roth 401k can be rolled over to a Roth IRA thereby not requiring RMDs. Mandatory distributions during a period of steep portfolio decline could have a profound effect on how long the portfolio could last. In effect, RMDs could force you to sell low. Here is my example and anyone correct me if I am wrong.
Kevin is 72 and the IRS determines his RMD from his portfolio worth on December 31, 2053. This RMD is significantly higher than Kevin determines he needs to withdraw in order to meet yearly living expenses. The market declines drastically leaving Kevin with a 20% loss in his well allocated portfolio. The RMD, calculated from portfolio worth 20% higher, forces Kevin to sell at a loss and to further add insult to injury he must pay taxes on the distributions. Even if Kevin takes the bulk of the RMD and reinvests it, he still has less capital to invest at the lower prices and that capital will no longer grow tax deferred. Avoiding the RMD seems to be a significant advantage for the Roth IRA.
3.) I have nine years total service between the active duty Air Force and the Air National Guard. I plan to stay in for at least twenty years so I will have a small pension beginning at 60 (actually slightly before that due to rule changes affecting how deployments get factored in). More than likely within the next couple of years I will probably seek employment with the FAA which will also add another pension although in my early fifties due to the air traffic controller retirement system. Being conservative, I would estimate the combined worth of these pensions in today's dollars would be around $50,000/yr and they are both COLAd. The pensions are taxed. If, and likely when, I go into the FAA I hope the Roth TSP. I do have some money in the TSP from the my active duty days as well as plan to contribute a little more on each deployment so as to put away more money for retirement than the combined $21,500 a year I do now.
I do have a couple of question though, particularly for those knowledgeable with tax rules and regulations.
Even if the tax structure remains the same and you withdraw the same amount in retirement per year as you earned working per year, you will pay less tax in retirement due to the effective tax rate being lower in retirement. How come the amount of taxes paid on an equal amount of income would not be the same in both retirement and during working years? Just to reemphasize, we are assuming the tax structure remains exact the same pre and post retirement. If this is true, it certainly is one of the strongest arguments for traditional over Roth in terms of tax efficiency. I still would feel that Roth is a better choice for me due mostly to anticipated pensions.
In terms of state income taxes, are you taxed again on Roth withdrawals? My understanding is you are.
Lastly, I suppose you could always split contributions between traditional and Roth. Anyone have any arguments in favor of making contributions to traditional rather than Roth that I'm missing.
Note: I'm also going to post this on the bogleheads site to maximize responses. Thanks in advance to all who reply.