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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 04-02-2005, 07:47 AM   #21
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

We're lucky to see 3% raises annually but I'm pretty well paid so it's not a big deal. And I don't work nearly as hard or as long as I used to. I've discovered the joys of doing...close to nothing.

It took me twenty seven years of nose to the grindstone sixty+ hour work weeks to fully realize that the adage as it relates to hard work rings painfully true: "The more you do...the more you do...and the more they expect you to do."

On another tack, anyone experience resistance from relatives about early retirement? My mother, a child of the depression, is mildly freaking out about my plans to back off or even quit my "great job". She thinks I'm going to starve and all the talk about how much I've saved seems to go in one ear and out the other. Oh well.
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 04-02-2005, 01:32 PM   #22
 
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

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... It took me twenty seven years of nose to the grindstone sixty+ hour work weeks to fully realize that the adage as it relates to hard work rings painfully true: "The more you do...the more you do...and the more they expect you to do."
Similarly, "Work flows to the competent until they are submerged."
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 04-02-2005, 03:15 PM   #23
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

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She thinks I'm going to starve
That's a Mother's job!

In compensation management there is the concept of "individual contributor", an employee who is in a particular job family but is a sustained superior performer, a key person, inventive, or has business critical relationships.

The business reality is a squeeze on compensation because of margin pressures and increasing health insurance costs. Under these conditions the hunting season is open for employers with comp budget needing critical skills.
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 04-02-2005, 03:47 PM   #24
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

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Did you ask them if you can choose between the red and the blue pill? *
Excuse me while I wipe coffee off the monitor

Methinks I took the red pill a while back, TH. *I've just been keeping it from management ... *

Now I have that Jefferson Airplane song running around in my head. "One pill makes you larger, and one pill makes you small..."
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-04-2005, 01:20 PM   #25
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

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Originally Posted by laurencewill
So they've told me for months they are going to take care of me, they recocgnize me working through lunches, customers really happy, the fact I'm the lowest paid guy that does what I do etc. etc.

Today my boss hands me my raise. Drum roll please.....

3.8% 3.8%!!!!!!! I think it may be 2 tenths over the pool.

Why bother working hard?? Boy this week is full of lessons. I will be doing some looking around soon, make my case.
Yea- 3 to 4% is typical. That's another reason to work for the Government that gives automatic 5% raise.

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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-04-2005, 06:23 PM   #26
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

laurencewill, did you complain about your raise and ask for more? I agree that raises these days stink -- 2-3% if you work for a big corp. At the same time, your manager does have some leeway.

I remember, back in the days of 10%-without-any-questions-asked, my boss gave me 7% for a KILLER year. I mean, I had other managers' support, letters from clients, etc. etc. It was my first year out of b-school and I was out to climb the ladder all the way to the top. Didn't take both days of a weekend off for over a year (good thing too, as I was in the office when the Oakland Hills Fire ran through my neighborhood -- but I digress.)

I gently but firmly pointed out to my boss that 7% was what other managers were paying for merely adequate work, and was that the message he wanted to send me?

He came back a month later with 20%! I could NOT believe it. He'd had the leeway, but tried to chisel me just because he COULD. Probably thought he was doing the company a favor by keeping expenses down. Funny thing, I was more pissed off than pleased with the 20%, because I felt that he'd tried to cheat me.

Anyway, be calm and professional (as I know you will), but let the boss know that he's sending you a message as to your value and your future with the company. At the same time, you pretty well MUST change jobs at some point to keep your salary up to market levels, so you might as well "test the waters" now, or soon.

My motto has been since back then: "you don't ask, you don't get."

Best of luck to you, and keep us posted!
Caroline
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-04-2005, 06:42 PM   #27
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

I agree. If the raise is run of the mill (and it sure sounds like it), then prepare a list of what you've accomplished that you feel is over and above the call and make a pitch for a higher increase.

Management and HR at most of the companies I worked at had the leeway to do it, it was just not a common occurence and definitely not one that was undertaken without some pressure.

Interesting sidebar to this that I've long wondered about. I probably hired about 200 people total during my career, by guestimation about 60/40 male to female ratio. Every single one of the guys negotiated with me for a higher salary. Not one of the women did, they either took it or passed on the offer. The amount of difference between my original offered salary and the negotiated salary was within a percent or two of the published difference between the salaries of men and women in the professions I hired for.

I've often wondered if at least some of the "male salary advantage" wasnt related to this simple negotiation at the front end.
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-04-2005, 07:51 PM   #28
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

That 3.8% is quite nice. Where I work in big corp USA, that would be the top performer's raise. Since 'performance' is often a combination of things, I would not worrry about bending over backwards to get this 1-2% higher. Do some math on that: 3% extra raise = $2,000. Take off taxes and you get less than $1,500. Say that extra effort to get the better raise was an additional 10 hours/week. $1,500/(50*10)= $3/hr. Better get a second job at McDonalds instead instead of working for a raise that you may not get any way.

The two better performers in my group (both left) used to have lunch with the boss daily. That really helped. However, I am not lunch material when it comes to my boss. The personal preference for individuals was the best indication of a good raise. 'Networking' (sucking up) at the top level also does wonders - I can't do that either. The worst investment is to work really hard within the walls of your cube. Based on that, I am fine with whatever kind of peanuts they throw at me now.

The only way to get a good raise is like what most people do - jump ship. Good for 15-30% per move usually. Always negotiate for a high salary before you sign the dotted line - once you are there, you stuck with whatever they give you + yearly inflation matches. Another advantage of moving around is that you will look more of a flexible/versatile person with more than one employer on your resume. My current employer needed several rounds of negotiation before they came up with an acceptable deal. I finally told them that joining them would be actually a cut in salary because the cola was higher in their location based on some website. This website was totally off but at least it got me my 15% extra. I am not looking forward to another employer again though, I am just so fed up with corporate USA. If possible I would want to stay here as short as possible until I can get out.

Vicky
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-04-2005, 08:29 PM   #29
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

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From th:* I've often wondered if at least some of the "male salary advantage" wasnt related to this simple negotiation at the front end.
I think you're exactly right on this one, th.* Most women don't negotiate at each opportunity, and the consequences multiply over time.* I mentioned my 20% vs 7% raise above, that was followed by a 5% raise that I negotiated into 10%, even in the face of an economic downturn. The salary diffence each time was significant by itself, but they compounded -- the second year I got 10% of a much bigger number than I otherwise would have.* Before I left that job a year later I was over 10K / year ahead of the game.

Again, laurencewill, you may want to move to keep up with salary scales, as everyone has advised.* But go for the extra % too.* It means incremental dollars now and in the future, and a better salary to go to the next employer with.* At the very worst, you practice for asking for what you want, and the boss respects you for knowing your own value.

IMHO,
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-04-2005, 09:06 PM   #30
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

I was one of the few managers that used to initiate their salary review with one of the chief officers and my salary grow nicely until 2 years ago when the same officer decided to cut my salary by 33% where it remained frozen until I got laid off recently.
Luckily I was still earning a fairly high salary and living well below my means, so I still was saving 50% of my gross.

If you are wondering why I stayed, they were still paying me a lot more than I could get in the local job market. My commute to work was short and I got to ride my bike to work as well.

MJ
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-05-2005, 12:07 AM   #31
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

You are all right on this, I got swept up in work that I like at the job (covered that in other threads), but the director knows I want to chat.

Have to focus my energy on my daughter right now, at least until we know if she needs heart surgery, I don't want to add variables to my life, looking for/starting a new job, there is enough stress! My commute would only be longer, for one. But I will say my piece and set up the situation. My company is known for having the "one time punk card" rule, where if you get an offer from some place else, they'll usually match it, but you can only pull that move once. I'm going to do my homework and try to hit one out of the park, get the match, and be happy. Thanks for all the advice!
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-05-2005, 12:21 PM   #32
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

The "one card" sort of rule makes a lot of sense. Statistically someone who takes another job and is lured back by more money rarely stays longer than a year after that. Mentally you already decided to leave and you're checked out.

At most companies I've managed at, there was always leeway for a 'special employee', in particular if there had been a documented major shift in industry salaries for that particular job category. You just had to pull the right tooth to get it.
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-05-2005, 01:31 PM   #33
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

MAJOR UPDATE- had the talk today, coincidentally, my coworker gave her notice, found an "exciting opportunity" (read-got a lot more jack). Director was very into what I had to say, is going to come back with a plan for me. We shall see!
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-11-2005, 09:48 PM   #34
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

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Originally Posted by laurencewill
MAJOR UPDATE- had the talk today, coincidentally, my coworker gave her notice, found an "exciting opportunity" (read-got a lot more jack). Director was very into what I had to say, is going to come back with a plan for me. We shall see!
Good luck.

I had a couple of discussions about salary and have not come to any conclusion.

Spanky
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-12-2005, 06:29 PM   #35
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

Hi Lawrencewill,

Definitely try for the raise with your accomplishments but my advice is:
- if you're really unhappy look for something else and jump - I wouldn't pull the threat tactic (if you don't give me more I will leave) because they will either call your bluff or treat you differently afterwards thinking that you are not loyal.
- also consider the intangibles - if you like the work, like the commute, like the life balance, like the benefits and co-workers - that's worth more than another few % in salary in my experience
- you can also work more at the pace of your co-workers - i.e. less extra hours. It's the pay/hour that counts!

JoJo
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-13-2005, 09:02 AM   #36
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

JoJo Girl, your observation makes sense. However, it is exactly the life-value that TH spoke about.
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-16-2005, 04:05 PM   #37
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

It seems like the few manager have not said how this raise stuff works in most large companies...

The department is given a 'pool' of 3% to 4% of salary. They distribute this to the employees, so if someone gets more than the pool percentage, someone else is getting less... then you have HR in the mix. I know of one manager who wanted to give a zero raise as the person was not doing well, HR said you could NOT do this and she had to give a 2% raise... so, someone else got less of a raise even though they were a good performer since the pool is finite.

Usually when they come back later, it is because they can now fight for an individual and it is not considered part of the pool...

Also, not every company gives out stock to the 'normal' professional. Our company requires a bonus of over $75,000 to even begin to be considered for stock... and I am not there
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-17-2005, 12:08 PM   #38
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

I only gave a zero raise twice, and my company had no problems with doing it for a poor performer.

Only twice because if we got all the way to the review process without the problem being fixed then its my fault for being a lousy manager and not helping the employee fix the problem. The review process is NOT where you let someone know they're doing something wrong and its not a tool to punish.

Somewhere along the line a few people forgot about that.
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-17-2005, 10:16 PM   #39
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

The review process is of zero value. It is only a formal process required by HR. Most of the comments are purely subjective. The overall performance, I feel, is based merely on perception and how well you have managed expectations. A person may work harder and actually produces more but fails to manage expectations ends up with a low rating. The bottom line is that he fails to deliver what was promised. He does not know how to play the game. Another person may work less but receives a high rating because he delivers more than what was promised.

That is my negative view of the review process.

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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!
Old 05-18-2005, 09:14 AM   #40
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Re: Stupid #&%!!$% Job!!!

Couldn't agree more Spanky. I've gone into reviews, appraisals, evaluations, whatever the current "in" term is and said: If I'm not getting a raise and there's nothing bad in this just let me sign and save both of us some time.

Judy
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