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Old 09-18-2007, 01:58 PM   #121
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Did Hitler have a sub-prime loan?

The Fed should act to keep the market from seizing, but no more...
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:10 PM   #122
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The only thing I would like to throw into the mix is that currently there is no safety net for people who ...... do not have young children.
I agree with the rest of your post the only thing I'd like to say about the quoted part is many of the people I dealt with who were professional "welfare moms" seemed to be able to spread their kids out over a very long period. If a woman has five or six kids over a lengthy period she can conceivable be on welfare for a very long time. Think about it a woman has a child every two years. If she has five or six (I've seen it far too often) she will be able to collect welfare for 30 years. The time span she would be having children is only 12 years. If she started having kids when she was 20 or younger she would still be quite young when her last child was born.

In my current position I talk with people who were on welfare a few months and seem embarrassed for using it. These people are also currently employed and working their butts off to keep from going back on it.
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:56 PM   #123
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So what is this thread about?

Some of us lurkers on this thread find the initial topic boring and debated ad nauseum under the "moral hazard" problem that economists have associated with uneven financial information, insurance or bail-outs. Moral hazard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Our Government has crossed this bridge many times -- the most obvious one being federal deposit insurance and the glaring example of the savings and loan mess in the 1980's and 1990's. We also have the Chrysler bail-out in the 1970's. The perception that many have at the lower rungs in our society is that these bail-outs always appear available for corporate america but somehow the bail-out door is very hard to pry open for the little guy.

I thought the philosophical discussion about libertarianism, justice and utilitarianism was pretty good -- however, at bottom, the question is really one of compassion (or lack thereof) by our Government, which is our agent to keep us all glued together.
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:08 PM   #124
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-- however, at bottom, the question is really one of compassion (or lack thereof) by our Government, which is our agent to keep us all glued together.
I don't really think so. First, as an entity our government is in no position to show compassion, as it has no funds other than what it takes very uncompassionately from productive citizens.

I would say the glue that keeps us all together is long gone, this just has not been realized by some. Once a nation acts as a Balkanzed set of entiries fighting over their max share of the productive pie, any sane person will spend as much time time postioning himself at the trough as he spends producing. Who wants to work hard and deny oneself and have much to most of the loot taken away?

Ha
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:25 PM   #125
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I don't really think so. First, as an entity our government is in no position to show compassion, as it has no funds other than what it takes very uncompassionately from productive citizens.

I would say the glue that keeps us all together is long gone, this just has not been realized by some. Once a nation acts as a Balkanzed set of entiries fighting over their max share of the productive pie, any sane person will spend as much time time postioning himself at the trough as he spends producing. Who wants to work hard and deny oneself and have much to most of the loot taken away?

Ha
Well, Ha, maybe we live in different countries or maybe our perceptions of our country are quite different. My perception is that since the end of the Civil War, our Government has orchestrated our sense of compassion in many ways; of course, the most prominent examples are the New Deal and the War on Poverty programs.

Our Government is largely responsible for forging our national identity and despite the fact that we are products of different regions, states, counties, cities, and streets -- we do have a distinct national identity, and we do tend to pull together when afflicted with natural disasters or confronted by a common enemy. We might not agree with each other on where our tax dollars should be spent -- and I might be way to the left of your convictions (which I think I am), but I'd say that 99.5 percent of us Americans really love this country -- and that's glue that binds us all!
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:05 PM   #126
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From the sound up in Long Island to the San Francisco Bay
And ev'ry thing between them is our home
And we may have done a little bit of fighting amongst ourselves
But you outside people best leave us alone
Cause we'll all stick together and you can take that to the bank
That's the cowboys and the hippies and the rebels and the yanks
You just go and lay your hand on a Pittsburgh Steeler fan
And I think you're gonna finally understand...

In America, Charlie Daniels Band
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Old 09-18-2007, 06:48 PM   #127
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Did Hitler have a sub-prime loan?

The Fed should act to keep the market from seizing, but no more...

Nope, but another German started SS (oops!), Social Security.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:15 PM   #128
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The Fed should act to keep the market from seizing, but no more...
So did the Fed go a little more today? Ok by me, but I guess I am tagging along with the big guys. No NINJA loans here.
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:12 PM   #129
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I was a bit surprised by the half point cut. Only time will tell...
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Old 09-19-2007, 03:40 AM   #130
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The consensus seems to be that the Fed rarely makes one cut and stops (same with interest raises). IT is usually a series. The question is how many will occur. My understanding is that it takes a while for the effect to ripple through the economy (on recession concerns). The market reaction is quick. everything else is slow and will take months to gather stats to determine how well it worked. This lag makes it difficult to really fine tune things... it often gets overdone (both ways).
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