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Old 01-05-2010, 08:59 AM   #21
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Oh yeah I forgot to mention this. A few years ago I called up Mass Mutual when I received my settlement. They said my agent had passed away and they were assigning another agent to my policy. One day I get a call from him and he said it's time to cash my policy in because I shouldn't need life ins any longer.

He then said it would be in my best interest to sell the policy and buy an Annuity. BRILLIANT!
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:18 AM   #22
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Yeah, maybe I'll go out and buy another whole life policy. I haven't been involved in a law suit in a few years so it'll give me something to do.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:02 AM   #23
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Nope, I didn't sue anyone, just went along with the other 10million people who took me along.

You are correct, I had no idea what I was buying and most people don't. This is exactly what agents are counting on. Anyone thinking straight wouldn't get involved in one of these scams. That doesn't make me right, that's just the way it is.

So if I Google (Good Agent) some will pop up? Stop it, you're killing me~
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:12 AM   #24
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How can you guys bear to talk about Beaver cheese? No doubt Venezuelan is best of that category, but damn have mercy!

Ha
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:12 AM   #25
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[Moderator edit]

Let me guess what you do/did for a living...
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:16 AM   #26
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These insrance agents really know how to take the fight to the enemy. They must get up every morning and eat a nice breakfast of nails mixed with chili peppers.

Ha
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:18 AM   #27
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How can you guys bear to talk about Beaver cheese? No doubt Venezuelan is best of that category, but damn have mercy!

Ha
Heh, I hope I am that classy when I become a dirty old man.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:14 AM   #28
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Get Whole Life insurance. After 10/11 years the interest breaks even and begins paying for the insurance premiums on its own.
It can be used as an investment vehicle for young people as well, especially when insurance is still cheap to get in your 20's.

You may also want to consider a larger policy, $1MM or $2MM as depending on when he passes, the payout will still be worth it -- as long as you can afford the monthly fee's for at least 10/11 years (at which point the interest earned breaks even on premiums)
Whole life as an investment vehicle for young people? These same young people who are too cheap to buy health insurance through their employer and have no savings to speak of, student loan debt, and live paycheck-to-paycheck? Is that what your Gneral Agency training program taught you?
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:06 PM   #29
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Whole life as an investment vehicle for young people? These same young people who are too cheap to buy health insurance through their employer and have no savings to speak of, student loan debt, and live paycheck-to-paycheck? Is that what your Gneral Agency training program taught you?

Hey, I'm not advocating others to buy it, but I did get a Guardian Whole Life policy as a gift from my grandparents. Over the last decade it's been one of the better performing things I own.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:23 PM   #30
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Whole life as an investment vehicle for young people? These same young people who are too cheap to buy health insurance through their employer and have no savings to speak of, student loan debt, and live paycheck-to-paycheck? Is that what your Gneral Agency training program taught you?
Not all young people are unsuccessful...
If they are looking at investments, then they are doing something different then the general population.
Don't forget a large portion of the population has no investments period... so those who do/are looking, have money.
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:44 PM   #31
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Not all young people are unsuccessful...
If they are looking at investments, then they are doing something different then the general population.
Don't forget a large portion of the population has no investments period... so those who do/are looking, have money.
So, your market demographic is that group of young people who
- Are "successful"
and
- Want to save for the future
and
- Are not bright enough to find alternative tax-advantaged investments with lower costs and better returns.

That's a mighty shallow pool. Wouldn't it be easier to sell shoes?
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:04 PM   #32
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Brewer, Hey! You demean Venezuelan Beaver Cheese when you compare it to investing in whole life insurance.
Venezuelan Beaver Cheese Review - CheeseReviews.org So where do you buy beaver cheese futures? Never heard of it, but obviously tastes good...
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:07 PM   #33
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Hey, I'm not advocating others to buy it, but I did get a Guardian Whole Life policy as a gift from my grandparents. Over the last decade it's been one of the better performing things I own.
I don't consider my whole life policies as investments, more like security blankets...or insecurity blankets.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:01 AM   #34
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I bought 3 Whole Life Policies in my life, all before I had any idea what I was doing. All 3 of them ended up in some sort of Class Action Suit. 2 of them I took the settlement and cashed them in. The last one for 500K I still hold but received a check 2 years ago for $31500 as the settlement from the CAS.

When I was sold the 500K policy I was told I'd only have to pay for 10 years (7K a year) and it would gain cash value and I wouldn't pay anything after the 10th year. Well, I guess we all know what happened on the 11th anniversary, I got the bill in the mail for 7K. Only to find out that I had to pay until the age of 99. I know, I know the dividends are supposed to pay the premium. But guess what I may never live long enough for the dividend to pay the premium. I'm in the 22nd year and still have to take money out of my pocket every year.

So don't believe any of the clowns coming on this thread stating that this is a good investment. The policies are out and out scams and nothing else, designed to line the pockets of the agents who sell them.

I had kept the original paper work from when the policy was sold to me and the agent stated I'd only pay for 10 years. This is the only reason that I received the settlement after 6 years of watching the CAS get settled.
Many agents used to sell the concept of "vanishing premium" whole life insurance like you described....that is now illegal, hence the lawsuits. Dividends are NEVER guaranteed and when you buy a whole life policy, the company is required to provide you with an illustration showing the GUARANTEED values and the PROJECTED values, which are usually based off current dividends minus 0.5 or 1%. Personally, I like guarantees. There are many whole life policies performing well, but there are no guarantees other than what is provided for in the policy terms. A universal life insurance policy with a no-lapse guarantee will have the lowest premium to get a permanent death benefit. It is essentially term insurance guaranteed forever since the cash values will be minimal.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:34 AM   #35
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I work in an insurance related industry as an analyst valuing insurance products. I am not a salesman and I'm not affiliated with any carrier.

I was reading over some of these posts and I saw this:

"When I was sold the 500K policy I was told I'd only have to pay for 10 years (7K a year) and it would gain cash value and I wouldn't pay anything after the 10th year. Well, I guess we all know what happened on the 11th anniversary, I got the bill in the mail for 7K."

Assuming you earned no interest on your $7k per year premiums on this policy you have only paid in $154k over 22 years.

In order for this policy, as this point, to be a money losing endeavor you would have had to earn 9% annually on the $7k in some other investment in order to have actually lost any money.



9.00% 1 7000 $7,630 2 7000 $15,947 3 7000 $25,012 4 7000 $34,893 5 7000 $45,663 6 7000 $57,403 7 7000 $70,199 8 7000 $84,147 9 7000 $99,351 10 7000 $115,922 11 7000 $133,985 12 7000 $153,674 13 7000 $175,134 14 7000 $198,526 15 7000 $224,024 16 7000 $251,816 17 7000 $282,109 18 7000 $315,129 19 7000 $351,121 20 7000 $390,352 21 7000 $433,113 22 7000 $479,724
Remember, this is insurance, not an investment. But either way, it sounds like your premium % is about 1.4% and you're earning interest/dividends, so you probably have a cash value built up. Seems like a pretty good policy to me.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:54 AM   #36
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So, your market demographic is that group of young people who
- Are "successful"
and
- Want to save for the future
and
- Are not bright enough to find alternative tax-advantaged investments with lower costs and better returns.

That's a mighty shallow pool. Wouldn't it be easier to sell shoes?
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