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Old 05-13-2010, 04:22 PM   #61
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I have managed to enjoy life, most of the time, with the help of self-medication...

But for the past 50 years, starting with elementary school, I've been getting up when someone says to, sitting where I'm told to sit, eating lunch at the assigned time, going home when told, and going to bed because someone was telling me I had to do it all over again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next.

Am I supposed to miss this?
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:25 PM   #62
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I have managed to enjoy life, most of the time, with the help of self-medication...

But for the past 50 years, starting with elementary school, I've been getting up when someone says to, sitting where I'm told to sit, eating lunch at the assigned time, going home when told, and going to bed because someone was telling me I had to do it all over again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next.

Am I supposed to miss this?
Wouldn't you miss the dignity of work?
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:27 PM   #63
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Wouldn't you miss the dignity of work?
...

I guess by my answer that you understand I wor*ed because I had to. No other reason...
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:36 PM   #64
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Wouldn't you miss the dignity of work?
Here's your answer...
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:38 PM   #65
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I think the OP's link presented ER from the perspective of careerism.

[Just to make it clear, the quotes are NOT from Fisker's Extreme ER blog".]

Since ER is a rejection of the values of careerism, careerism would cast ER in an obvious dark light. There are probably more people pursuing careerism, maybe thanks to the "love your work/find your work passion" meme than there are pursuing ER. I wonder whether this "find work you're passionate about" is a Gen Y thing?! did boomers have the same lofty goals?
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:52 PM   #66
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ISince ER is a rejection of the values of careerism, careerism would cast ER in an obvious dark light. There are probably more people pursuing careerism, maybe thanks to the "love your work/find your work passion" meme than there are pursuing ER. I wonder whether this "find work you're passionate about" is a Gen Y thing?! did boomers have the same lofty goals?
Yes - especially for women. Our generation went through a period of rejection of "traditional" roles for women in favor of roles that allowed for financial independence from spouse or parents. So this pretty much meant career/work. And unfortunately tended to devalue the non-money-earning aspects of a woman's life. Just a pendulum swinging the other way, really.

I think of myself growing up, and how important it was for me to "earn my own money" and not seek financial support through marriage. To me growing up, financial independence meant being independent of spouse or parents for financial support. It wasn't until much later that I realized "financial independence" might mean independence from employment too! But of course until you achieve full FI, those distinctions matter little.

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Old 05-13-2010, 05:01 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by HFWR View Post
I have managed to enjoy life, most of the time, with the help of self-medication...

But for the past 50 years, starting with elementary school, I've been getting up when someone says to, sitting where I'm told to sit, eating lunch at the assigned time, going home when told, and going to bed because someone was telling me I had to do it all over again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next.

Am I supposed to miss this?
Trust me: you won't.
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:05 PM   #68
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Wouldn't you miss the dignity of work?
Yeah, we all know how dignified Brewer's work made him feel until recently!

Audrey
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:23 PM   #69
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Yeah, we all know how dignified Brewer's work made him feel until recently!

Audrey
Fortunately things are far better for me now, but its still work and therefore it means I have little control over my life, just like HFWR. I frigging hate having to get up at 5:20 AM because it is the only time I can squeeze time at the gym, for example.
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:14 PM   #70
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I frigging hate having to get up at 5:20 AM
What is this 5:20 AM you speak of?
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:15 PM   #71
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What is this 5:20 AM you speak of?
Hey, its an improvement over my last job. I used to get up at 4:45 AM, drive 70 miles, hit the gym, and then go to work for 10+ hours. At least I keep telling myself that it is an improvement.

Can you see why I am willing to do ESR instead of full ER?

Its because I can't stand the idea of fully giving up on the dignity of work...

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Old 05-13-2010, 08:30 PM   #72
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During certain kinds of activity - such as art, gardening, etc. I have found myself reaching what I would call a sort of "Zen" consciousness. Things seem to flow, and I feel like I am exactly where I need to be. Throughout my working life I gradually built on my education, and now, at 64 am able to make money doing what I love. My work is in a helping field related to art; I planned it that way and my life is truly rich. I plan to stay engaged in life.

I don't "have" to work, but one of the things I enjoy is to earn extra money and invest it for future generations. I am also working on a book.

I know people who spent years in jobs they hated - myself included; the only motive was money. One can certainly smell the roses without being part of the stress and extravagant spending cycle. The freedom offered by living below my means is priceless.

For the young, I would say remember the magic of compounding interest. Invest each month. You can have a meaningful work - yet attain a comfortable retirement.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:32 PM   #73
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For the young, I would say remember the magic of compounding interest. Invest each month. You can have a meaningful work - yet attain a comfortable retirement.

AKA lean back, relax, and think of England.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:59 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by jacob View Post
I think the OP's link presented ER from the perspective of careerism.
[Just to make it clear, the quotes are NOT from Fisker's Extreme ER blog".]
I wonder whether this "find work you're passionate about" is a Gen Y thing?! did boomers have the same lofty goals?
Welcome to the board, Jacob!

I think the vast majority of the readers, especially those who've been following your blog, understand the link wasn't from ERE. I decided let it slide.

Once upon a time I was passionate about my career (I'm a Boomer). Then I hit a point where family became largely incompatible with career, and that was the end of the good passion...
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:23 PM   #75
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Fortunately things are far better for me now, but its still work and therefore it means I have little control over my life, just like HFWR. I frigging hate having to get up at 5:20 AM because it is the only time I can squeeze time at the gym, for example.
I spent ~20 years responding to the alarm at 5AM. Don't miss it a bit.
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:52 AM   #76
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During certain kinds of activity - such as art, gardening, etc. I have found myself reaching what I would call a sort of "Zen" consciousness. Things seem to flow, and I feel like I am exactly where I need to be.
I presume that you are familiar with Csikszentmihalyi?

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Throughout my working life I gradually built on my education, and now, at 64 am able to make money doing what I love. My work is in a helping field related to art; I planned it that way and my life is truly rich. I plan to stay engaged in life.
Most people interested in FIRE plan to stay engaged in life (few people on this board appear to harbour suicidal ideations). The point is that paid employment need not form any part of such engagement.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:09 AM   #77
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Yes - especially for women. Our generation went through a period of rejection of "traditional" roles for women in favor of roles that allowed for financial independence from spouse or parents. So this pretty much meant career/work. And unfortunately tended to devalue the non-money-earning aspects of a woman's life. Just a pendulum swinging the other way, really.

I think of myself growing up, and how important it was for me to "earn my own money" and not seek financial support through marriage. To me growing up, financial independence meant being independent of spouse or parents for financial support. It wasn't until much later that I realized "financial independence" might mean independence from employment too! But of course until you achieve full FI, those distinctions matter little.

Audrey
Audrey, what your wote here reminds me of the book, "The Feminine Mistake," by Leslie Bennetts. In it, she tells stories about women whose lives took a big tumble when they became economically dependent on their husbands only to see them become disabled, die, or become divorced. She wondered why these women would go to the trouble of getting a college degree (other than a M-R-S degree) and begin a good career towards being self-supporting only to abandon that and make themselves vulnerable by becoming dependent on something which might not turn out the way they had hoped.

And to the others who recently posted, egads to getting up at 5 AM. Getting up at 7 AM, give or take 45 minutes, every day or just a few days a week, was too much for me in my working days. That and a lousy commute were the main reasons I wanted to retire early in late 2008 at age 45.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:23 AM   #78
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Audrey, what your wote here reminds me of the book, "The Feminine Mistake," by Leslie Bennetts. In it, she tells stories about women whose lives took a big tumble when they became economically dependent on their husbands only to see them become disabled, die, or become divorced. She wondered why these women would go to the trouble of getting a college degree (other than a M-R-S degree) and begin a good career towards being self-supporting only to abandon that and make themselves vulnerable by becoming dependent on something which might not turn out the way they had hoped.
Divorce and single parenting was already pretty prominent in the US before I graduated from college. Even though we had been raised by a generation whose world view was that women's careers ended at marriage and certainly children, and that family and motherhood was a woman's main role, it was pretty obvious to me that the real world had changed. But I can certainly understand how some women my age adopted the views of their parents and expected the more traditional situation and thus were not prepared.

And there is nothing wrong, IMO, with a woman choosing to put family and motherhood first. How could there be? But unless you make wise choices, that can make you very vulnerable financially. You had better take some steps to ensure your own economic future and not be passive and leave it all on your spouse's shoulders.

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Old 05-14-2010, 08:35 AM   #79
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................... I wonder whether this "find work you're passionate about" is a Gen Y thing?! did boomers have the same lofty goals?
Personally, when I began my career as an engineer I was having so much fun that I would have worked for free. For some reason, though, in most large corporations or organizations, it seems like there exists an overclass that relishes wringing every shred of enjoyment from w*rk with their petty politics and power struggles. I know that some here seem to have avoided this trap in certain careers, but in my experience, this is the trend.

So, I don't think it is so much a case of boomers not looking for a career that they could be passionate about, as opposed to being lured in with the roses and finding the thorns after they have come to depend on the income. Or as a cow*rker pointed out, management is like a septic tank and the really big chunks float to the top.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:21 AM   #80
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During certain kinds of activity - such as art, gardening, etc. I have found myself reaching what I would call a sort of "Zen" consciousness. Things seem to flow, and I feel like I am exactly where I need to be. ...
I had a number of activites that enabled "flow state". During those periods, I solved many work-related issues. Painting, lawn-mowing were just two.
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