Tommy_Dolitte
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I'm starting this for us "tweeners". It would be nice if the site had more categories.
The Official Under 30 Thread!
- Thread starter Tommy_Dolitte
- Start date
Hyperborea
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
"Tween" what and what else?
We're actually known as "echoboomers" to demographers... here's what they say about us:
"Echo boomers were born between the late 1970s and the early 1990s. They’re mostly the children of Baby Boomers (so, an echo of them, hence the name) and their oldest members are now moving into adulthood. They have been stereotyped as ethnically diverse children of the computer age, conformist, and untroubled by the generation gap. This group is large (three times that of the preceding Generation X) and is posing demographic problems, especially in education."
The only thing I want to conform to is some of the other folks on this board.... ER! Even still, the term "Echo Boomer" sounds kinda cool, so a category named as such would get my vote.
It would also be nice to see other people in a similar situations to myself (avg. starting pay, etc), and what they are doing to help speed up the dream of ER. I know that a lot of people got their ER start by cashing in their home equity (downsizing), but for those of us who don't yet own a home, the impossibility of buying a 'starter' home (~$200k where I live) is a little discouraging... so how do we tackle and solve that problem? With social security projected to run out RIGHT as we're eligible for benefits (reduced as they may be), how are we preparing to finance 100% of our retirement? Will Medicare still be around in another 15 years (let alone 20+)? If not, what hedging strategies should we look to deploy? I believe that there is room for a lot of discussion for issues unique to this younger (<30) group who are really just getting started in life.
Just for fun, I made a little calculator while I was bored one day... obviously it's only looking at the equity market, but it's still fun to play with:
http://thealterego.com/market/
Actually, it's not fun.... there are large periods where there is very little growth in the equity market, so in that regard, it's quite scary. I promise I'll put bonds in there too (someday), so you can see what a slightly more "balanced" portfolio would do over some given time span.
"Echo boomers were born between the late 1970s and the early 1990s. They’re mostly the children of Baby Boomers (so, an echo of them, hence the name) and their oldest members are now moving into adulthood. They have been stereotyped as ethnically diverse children of the computer age, conformist, and untroubled by the generation gap. This group is large (three times that of the preceding Generation X) and is posing demographic problems, especially in education."
The only thing I want to conform to is some of the other folks on this board.... ER! Even still, the term "Echo Boomer" sounds kinda cool, so a category named as such would get my vote.
It would also be nice to see other people in a similar situations to myself (avg. starting pay, etc), and what they are doing to help speed up the dream of ER. I know that a lot of people got their ER start by cashing in their home equity (downsizing), but for those of us who don't yet own a home, the impossibility of buying a 'starter' home (~$200k where I live) is a little discouraging... so how do we tackle and solve that problem? With social security projected to run out RIGHT as we're eligible for benefits (reduced as they may be), how are we preparing to finance 100% of our retirement? Will Medicare still be around in another 15 years (let alone 20+)? If not, what hedging strategies should we look to deploy? I believe that there is room for a lot of discussion for issues unique to this younger (<30) group who are really just getting started in life.
Just for fun, I made a little calculator while I was bored one day... obviously it's only looking at the equity market, but it's still fun to play with:
http://thealterego.com/market/
Actually, it's not fun.... there are large periods where there is very little growth in the equity market, so in that regard, it's quite scary. I promise I'll put bonds in there too (someday), so you can see what a slightly more "balanced" portfolio would do over some given time span.
Tommy_Dolitte
Recycles dryer sheets
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I'm in a similar situation as you. We should compare notes.
How do I use the tool?
TD
How do I use the tool?
TD
cute fuzzy bunny
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Ask *****. He uses his 'tool' a lot, most likely by hand but there may be a prosthetic device involved on occasion
Later when I have time I may have to start a thread "All you under 30 people...blow me!"
Hyperborea
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
See, I thought that we Gen-Xers were the "tweeners". We're "tween" the boomers and the echo-boomers.
BigMoneyJim
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Gee, this is the first time I've been too old to participate in a thread...I'm 34 and apparently over the hill now. 
I was born in '70. I don't seem to have a generational tag...too late for boomers, too early for Gen X or echoboomers. That's fine; I don't conform well to groups, anyway.
yelnad, you're not under 30. Sorry, your out of luck. Now let's go make a cool peoples' thirtysomething thread.
I was born in '70. I don't seem to have a generational tag...too late for boomers, too early for Gen X or echoboomers. That's fine; I don't conform well to groups, anyway.
yelnad, you're not under 30. Sorry, your out of luck. Now let's go make a cool peoples' thirtysomething thread.
Hyperborea
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Actually, you are Gen-X. We are the group between the boomers and the echo-boomers (sometimes called Gen-Y).
Some people over time confused the Gen-X tag by using it to refer to any 20-something especially if they were in angst.
Hello all,
I'm 29. We're in a similar situation to Marshac. We don't own a home, and don't make enough money to purchase one yet. Solution: Save enough money until we're able to buy one. Sure, purchasing a house is nice and all, but if you can't afford it, why risk bankruptcy and all the headaches that come with those money problems? My parents didn't own a home until they were in their 30's. A number of our friends have just purchased homes, but they make a lot more than us, and can afford them.
It seems to me that a lot of people who are so concerned with squeezing every little last drop out of returns and doing exactly the right thing to win. IMO, the path to ER is not to totally screw yourself buy putting yourself in a bad financial position - like overextending yourself with a house you can't afford. The goal should be "not to lose" and not to try to win - by saving as much as possible/feasable ( given spending and behavioral constraints) learning to live below one's means, and keeping investing costs down.
One thing I've been noticing of late, from my family's jobs in the fed gov't. There are a whole lot of people who are over 45, set to retire in 10 years or less. When these baby boomers leave their gov't jobs, there'll be vacuum in which people our age can swoop in and advance quickly. Wife's currently poised for this, while struggling with the "moron factor" of gov't life.
- Alec
I'm 29. We're in a similar situation to Marshac. We don't own a home, and don't make enough money to purchase one yet. Solution: Save enough money until we're able to buy one. Sure, purchasing a house is nice and all, but if you can't afford it, why risk bankruptcy and all the headaches that come with those money problems? My parents didn't own a home until they were in their 30's. A number of our friends have just purchased homes, but they make a lot more than us, and can afford them.
It seems to me that a lot of people who are so concerned with squeezing every little last drop out of returns and doing exactly the right thing to win. IMO, the path to ER is not to totally screw yourself buy putting yourself in a bad financial position - like overextending yourself with a house you can't afford. The goal should be "not to lose" and not to try to win - by saving as much as possible/feasable ( given spending and behavioral constraints) learning to live below one's means, and keeping investing costs down.
One thing I've been noticing of late, from my family's jobs in the fed gov't. There are a whole lot of people who are over 45, set to retire in 10 years or less. When these baby boomers leave their gov't jobs, there'll be vacuum in which people our age can swoop in and advance quickly. Wife's currently poised for this, while struggling with the "moron factor" of gov't life.
- Alec
Tommy_Dolitte
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Alec --
Great point. My future wife and I have noticed that as well. (i.e. the age distributions @ work, etc.)
I expect that over the next 5 years or so, we'll have to deal with the "change" resistors in organizations. Once, they're gone, we'll be seasoned...and the future will be very bright for us!!! " )
I look @ the time I'm spending now in my HIGHLY political org. as boot camp!
In fact, I was talking to a VP the other day and in so many words, he told me---"continue to do well son...I got boat loads of stock that I need you to amek sure stay afloat"....It's all about money...
In my case...money = freedom...I care less about the tangible things...
As for the house thingy...I to have friends that have homes---I do not yet....BUT...I have driven the same car since 11th grade (Honda)...and have been saving like crazy....My total monthly living expenses are about $900/mon this year...starting at about $675 back in '98 when I began working....Guess who has more net worth...them or me? *wink*
Not knocking them...we just have different goals...I chose to cut hard on food to the point that I get to travel cheaply and enjoy the culture and openness of life....*sniifs autumn air*
LET'S GET READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL!!!!
TD
Great point. My future wife and I have noticed that as well. (i.e. the age distributions @ work, etc.)
I expect that over the next 5 years or so, we'll have to deal with the "change" resistors in organizations. Once, they're gone, we'll be seasoned...and the future will be very bright for us!!! " )
I look @ the time I'm spending now in my HIGHLY political org. as boot camp!
In fact, I was talking to a VP the other day and in so many words, he told me---"continue to do well son...I got boat loads of stock that I need you to amek sure stay afloat"....It's all about money...
In my case...money = freedom...I care less about the tangible things...
As for the house thingy...I to have friends that have homes---I do not yet....BUT...I have driven the same car since 11th grade (Honda)...and have been saving like crazy....My total monthly living expenses are about $900/mon this year...starting at about $675 back in '98 when I began working....Guess who has more net worth...them or me? *wink*
Not knocking them...we just have different goals...I chose to cut hard on food to the point that I get to travel cheaply and enjoy the culture and openness of life....*sniifs autumn air*
LET'S GET READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL!!!!
TD
Hyperborea
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Well, I wouldn't count on them being available. There are Gen-Xers lined up for those slots once the boomers retire. Or at least the Gen-Xers who don't plan on retiring early. That is unless they've become too "old" and get passed over.
V
Vale
Guest
I expect that over the next 5 years or so, we'll have to deal with the "change" resistors in organizations. Once, they're gone, we'll be seasoned...and the future will be very bright for us!!! " )
I look @ the time I'm spending now in my HIGHLY political org. as boot camp!
In fact, I was talking to a VP the other day and in so many words, he told me---"continue to do well son...I got boat loads of stock that I need you to amek sure stay afloat"....It's all about money...
I'm crashing your thread here as a 40Something but may I offer some perspectives from 20+ years in some 'highly political' organizations?
Atleast in the companies that I've been in, those pesky 'change resistors' usually are in mid 30s to early 40s.. about the age that you'll be five years from now. The youngsters are usually too impressionable or timid to offer much resistance. They are the best ones to be told what to do. The mid 40s (successful ones which incidentally the ones that you want to pay attention to) and older are usually pretty seasoned employees/execs and usually go where the wind blows. They may stage a good fight just for effects but in the end, everyone is a corporate soldier. Different motivations but also not 'change resistors'.
VPs lied to their subordinates. I was one so I guess I know first hand but it's also common practice up and down the chain of management; however, I would not have told anyone that they need to work hard to protect my 'boat loads' of stock options so there's something screwy there. If you are secure or in a position of power, you don't need to brag and most people don't respond to an incentive to enrich their boss financially.
Skylark: That % up top is simply the % difference between the high end and the low end... useless for any sort of calculations, but I thought it was cool anyways.... the effective APR can be found down under the graph after it has run through the calculations. Click in-between the red bars to move them, and then click again when it's in the position you want.... it will pause for a second and then spit out a bunch of data into the text fields below.
I keep talking to all of my friends about the importance of saving NOW! Taking advantage of that employer matched 401k NOW (of which I am very envious!)... we have no such thing in public service =) An no, we don't have sweet pension plans anymore either.... the "new" system is years * avg annual salary * 1%.... big deal! The kicker is that you MUST be 65 to retire. The NPV of that after 30 years of service is a joke.... I wish they would just match my 401k contributions.... but I digress
ats5g: saving for the house is the only possible way, but with the market behaving as it is, and the fact that housing prices are rising faster than my 5% annual raises.... I have a sinking feeling... I'm probably one of the few people just itching for the "bubble" to burst....because when it does, I'll be on the sideline wringing my hands saying "excellent" (a-la Mr Burns). I also wonder if by the time I do have $100k (or whatever I need) to buy the house, if I will really be so willing to drop that much cash down.... I mean, $100k goes a long way towards ER! As for the employment vacuum, I really think that the boomer's lack of retirement assets will dampen this...out of economic necessity they will continue to work...sad, but true. True, they will reach a point in time where they can no longer work, but look at Greenspan...regardless of what you think of him, he is living proof that knowledge workers can work well into their winter years... I would wager that the people here looking at ER aren’t exactly blue-collar workers looking for physically demanding jobs, so we might have to wait up to another two decades for some of those positions to vacate. Hopefully boomer retirement isn't the sole source of “job growth” over the next 20 years...That would be utterly depressing...Even still though, the US is still losing jobs...Sure, 38k jobs were created last month, but it takes 150k new jobs each month just to keep up with the growth of the labor force.
What i'm doing:
15% of my gross (non-matched) goes into my 401k (100% equity right now), and I save about $350/month into my ING account.... I FINALLY hit the magic 6mo of reserve cash mark, so I can begin to fund the ROTH now.... I was REALLY excited when I hit that 6mo mark.... I don't feel so naked anymore The ONE perk of working at a university is that I can take courses (8cr/q) for free....starting this winter I'm going to begin taking courses for another degree in cellular molecular biology....Time for a career change (at age 24!)- I'm goin to med school...if there's one thing those boomers will need, it's doctors.... and lots of them.
I keep talking to all of my friends about the importance of saving NOW! Taking advantage of that employer matched 401k NOW (of which I am very envious!)... we have no such thing in public service =) An no, we don't have sweet pension plans anymore either.... the "new" system is years * avg annual salary * 1%.... big deal! The kicker is that you MUST be 65 to retire. The NPV of that after 30 years of service is a joke.... I wish they would just match my 401k contributions.... but I digress
ats5g: saving for the house is the only possible way, but with the market behaving as it is, and the fact that housing prices are rising faster than my 5% annual raises.... I have a sinking feeling... I'm probably one of the few people just itching for the "bubble" to burst....because when it does, I'll be on the sideline wringing my hands saying "excellent" (a-la Mr Burns). I also wonder if by the time I do have $100k (or whatever I need) to buy the house, if I will really be so willing to drop that much cash down.... I mean, $100k goes a long way towards ER! As for the employment vacuum, I really think that the boomer's lack of retirement assets will dampen this...out of economic necessity they will continue to work...sad, but true. True, they will reach a point in time where they can no longer work, but look at Greenspan...regardless of what you think of him, he is living proof that knowledge workers can work well into their winter years... I would wager that the people here looking at ER aren’t exactly blue-collar workers looking for physically demanding jobs, so we might have to wait up to another two decades for some of those positions to vacate. Hopefully boomer retirement isn't the sole source of “job growth” over the next 20 years...That would be utterly depressing...Even still though, the US is still losing jobs...Sure, 38k jobs were created last month, but it takes 150k new jobs each month just to keep up with the growth of the labor force.
What i'm doing:
15% of my gross (non-matched) goes into my 401k (100% equity right now), and I save about $350/month into my ING account.... I FINALLY hit the magic 6mo of reserve cash mark, so I can begin to fund the ROTH now.... I was REALLY excited when I hit that 6mo mark.... I don't feel so naked anymore
The ONE perk of working at a university is that I can take courses (8cr/q) for free....starting this winter I'm going to begin taking courses for another degree in cellular molecular biology....Time for a career change (at age 24!)- I'm goin to med school...if there's one thing those boomers will need, it's doctors.... and lots of them.
C
Cut-Throat
Guest
Housing prices only seem to crash in certain areas. Usually it's those areas where they have risen the fastest. It crashed in Houston Texas when Oil business went south. It crashed in Southern California when prices got sky high.
I never seen the Bubble in the Minneapolis area in 30 years. And I expect many other areas in the country are like that also. What it usually does here is rise like it has in the last 6-8 years and then stay flat for 8-10 years. I have never seen prices fall here. But of course I wasn't alive during the Depression
I really don't think they will either... I think what will most likely happen is that prices will eventually level off, and remain stagnant for awhile, or make gains at modest amounts (3-5%). The recent explosion of values IMO is unsustainable.
Edit: after re-reading what I just wrote, I realized that all I needed to say was "I agree with you"...
Edit: after re-reading what I just wrote, I realized that all I needed to say was "I agree with you"...
Tommy_Dolitte
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Hey Cut-Throat, are you in Minneapolis too?!?!
Greenspan...work?
Someone PLEASE tell me anywhere in history where the "Federal Reserve Banking System" has succeeded in any of its PUBLICIZED objectives.
I get your point though, age is not a measure of capability necessarily. My observation has been that most have had it with the b.s. and get more out of enjoying the advantage they have TO leave, vs. staying and really adding their full value.
My goal is to have $150 K by my 30th b-day. That's 1.5 years. Need to find that 11%!!! : )
Greenspan...work?
Someone PLEASE tell me anywhere in history where the "Federal Reserve Banking System" has succeeded in any of its PUBLICIZED objectives.I get your point though, age is not a measure of capability necessarily. My observation has been that most have had it with the b.s. and get more out of enjoying the advantage they have TO leave, vs. staying and really adding their full value.
My goal is to have $150 K by my 30th b-day. That's 1.5 years. Need to find that 11%!!! : )
I'd best jump in now, since I only have 10 days before I'm ineligible for this thread!
Lately it seems like most people my age are having kids and buying large houses, tying themselves down with tons of debt and future obligations. Well, if they want to... but that's not for me! Now, if I could only get my freelance writing to take off, I'd really be happy. My book (which I'm sure all of you guys would like - it's called "Spending Wisely") is shlepping its way to various publishers. No luck so far, but dammit, it's a good book - just needs to find the right home.
Lately it seems like most people my age are having kids and buying large houses, tying themselves down with tons of debt and future obligations. Well, if they want to... but that's not for me! Now, if I could only get my freelance writing to take off, I'd really be happy. My book (which I'm sure all of you guys would like - it's called "Spending Wisely") is shlepping its way to various publishers. No luck so far, but dammit, it's a good book - just needs to find the right home.
Tommy_Dolitte
Recycles dryer sheets
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Holly, you'll get your break! Hang in there! : )
Cut-throat - I'm in Edina!
: )
Cut-throat - I'm in Edina!
: )
Holly, do you have an agent? Publishers are relying on agents to do the screening and few will look at unsolicited manuscripts. Most end up on the "slush pile" - manuscripts they might look at someday if they have time. It's very difficult to sell directly to publishers without an agent. Timing is also important because publishers are lemmings. If financial books are hot, they'll all be doing financial books. If they're cold, it will be a tougher sell - agent or not.
J
John Galt
Guest
Do you remember the novel/movie
'Ordinary People' ? I knew the author and as far as
I know it was her first attempt. Also, it was just sent
out unsolicited and happened to get noticed. I can't
imagine the odds against that happening.
John Galt
'Ordinary People' ? I knew the author and as far as
I know it was her first attempt. Also, it was just sent
out unsolicited and happened to get noticed. I can't
imagine the odds against that happening.
John Galt
trumpeting_angel
Full time employment: Posting here.
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- 526
Ordinary People was an amazing book (and movie).
Now, about buying that house:
First-time buyers should definitely consider buying a 2-family house. Live in one half, let the tenants pay a portion of your mortgage. Of course, do your research first (and read McLean & Eldred, Investing in Real Estate); be wary and ready when it comes to coping with tenants. But this is the route that many, many people have taken to owning their first home!
And it's a far better move financially than 5% (or less) down, having to pay PMI, and then needing to sell just after the market drops 8% and your house is worth LESS than you owe on it! This is what lots of people are doing today, and it's a terrible idea.
And it's a better idea than buying a condo, paying condo fees, and essentially little has changed from apartment living.
Well, my 2 cents worth.
Anne
Now, about buying that house:
First-time buyers should definitely consider buying a 2-family house. Live in one half, let the tenants pay a portion of your mortgage. Of course, do your research first (and read McLean & Eldred, Investing in Real Estate); be wary and ready when it comes to coping with tenants. But this is the route that many, many people have taken to owning their first home!
And it's a far better move financially than 5% (or less) down, having to pay PMI, and then needing to sell just after the market drops 8% and your house is worth LESS than you owe on it! This is what lots of people are doing today, and it's a terrible idea.
And it's a better idea than buying a condo, paying condo fees, and essentially little has changed from apartment living.
Well, my 2 cents worth.
Anne
Basically, it's about making smart decisions on how to spend your money, so you can save money (or allocate your spending in a more satisfying way) without depriving yourself. It was inspired by the fact that so many personal finance books blithely say "Well, if you cut your expenses by X%, you can save Y amount toward retirement/college/etc!" The thing is, I don't think most people know *how* to cut their spending. They don't know how to go through the mental process of distinguishing "need" from "want," they don't appreciate the value of deferring gratification, and they don't know any strategies for spending less on things than they currently spend. The whole idea of "saving" also tends to get tangled up in the public eye with deprivation - eating rice and beans, never going out, etc. - so they don't see an acceptable alternative to living beyond their means. My radical proposal
is that people could do a whole lot better (and be a whole lot happier) if they made better conscious choices about how they spend their money.That's what my book is about - giving people the mental tools to make better spending choices. The first couple of chapters are more "theoretical" (talking about budgeting - which I think is usually the wrong approach - the value of saving, understanding want vs. need, etc.). The rest of the chapters tackle specific areas like housing, groceries, entertainment, etc. and talk about ways to spend less in each area.
I've been sending it (or rather, a proposal, not the whole m.s.) out to some of the smaller (but still reputable) non-fiction publishers who have similar books in their line, and who accept unagented submissions. After the current one, I have one more publisher to try directly, and then I'm going to look for an agent.
