The Zero-Savings Problem in the US (CNN)

We are selling my wife's condo. It went up on the market last week and we have 3 offers already. We are countering right now but it looks like we will be very near full price. That is unusual for here so it looks like the boom is alive and well here. Also, two houses in my area have sold in less than 30 days...these are all 5000+ sq. ft. Mcmansions too. Usually these sit on the market for months.
 
Steve,

It sounds like the price you sold the house at did not pay off the mortgage in full. That isn't the mortgage company being mean, that's the market working its "magic". I feel sorry for the Californians (and others) that will probably have this problem soon.
 
wabmester said:
I think the BEA defines savings as the amount of disposable income that you didn't spend. Since 401-K deductions are made before income is distributed, I don't think they count that towards savings.

Yes. A quote from the original article...

"Any money directed into 401(k) plans is considered to be part of take-home pay in the government calcuation. But that 401(k) money isn't available to spend.

Take a person who contributes 10 percent of income to a 401(k). If the government counts him or her as having a zero savings rate, he or she is actually spending about 10 percent more than the actual take-home pay, liquidating assets or taking on debt to support spending. "

Doesn't this make their statistics kinda screwy? Perhaps the reason "savings rate" is going down is because people are contributing to 401Ks now because they are more popular and well understood.
 
Doesn't this make their statistics kinda out of this world screwy?
 
No, it's correct. Say someone has $100 of pay, puts $10 in a 401k, and then takes home $90. Now they spend $100, putting $10 on their credit card. That person has a 0% savings rate, just as the article says.
 
MasterBlaster said:
Some will make the argument that is better to be a saver amongst debtors than a saver amongst savers

I would think that other than feeling smug, the real concern is that the vast number of debtors would vote in legislators, who then pass laws to make you give up your "fair share" to the debtors.

Beware of hungry people that can vote themselves some of your loot.

So based on that, I will make the argument that is better to be a saver amongst savers than a saver amongst debtors

Would agree, saver amongst savers my preference. Just as everybody benefits when everybody is educated, can read, etc. The mindset of a saver maybe net- "contribute" more to society than just the raising of GDP.
 
P.S. said:
Would agree, saver amongst savers my preference. Just as everybody benefits when everybody is educated, can read, etc. The mindset of a saver maybe net- "contribute" more to society than just the raising of GDP.

I disagree.  I'll admit right now that I haven't thought about this much, and I'm not an economist.  However, I think it's better to be a saver amongs spenders. 

Because the spenders keep happily putting their financial futures on the line, our economy is humming right now.  The example of Japan that someone else raised earlier is apt.  Also, is it unrealistic to hope that as the spenders' debts eventually catch up to them, they'll sell their assets below market rates, or some of their homes will be foreclosed, providing opportunities for the savers?  Another consequence a lot of the spenders will have to deal with is their inability to retire.  That could have both good and bad consequences for the savers, so I'm not sure which way it cuts.

On the other hand, I recognize it is true that when the spenders become too powerful, they can demand various kinds of forgiveness and welfare from the government to help them avoid the consequences of their own actions.  For example, they can demand tax breaks for people with big families, even though it's their own fault they had more kids than they could afford and spent their money unwisely.  And they can demand that gas prices stay unrealistically low despite all the costs that entails--costs that must be borne by the taxpayers (military forces defending the oil flow, environmental costs, etc.).

All in all, there are a lot of factors to consider, but I like that smug feeling I get from not being one of the teeming hordes of people going into hock to buy wall-sized plasma TVs and similarly frivolous shiny things.
 
Saver among spenders is best. I did get a BA in Econ, but I don't think we need to get that technical as to why:

If you are buying a house, you want everybody else selling, not buying.

If you are a loaner of money, you want everybody else borrowing, not loaning. I'd rather be the only game in town with a ton of customers vs. competing against everyone else.
 
REWahoo! said:
Thought you could only get BS in Econ... :D

REW

Hey, guilty as charged! We like to do things like bundle everything that doesn't fit into our neat formula, label them as "externalities" and banish them. :)
 
We savers have already benefited by being savers among spenders. As the government struggles to get the spenders to save, we just gobble up all the incentives. New higher "catch-up" limits on IRAs, Roth IRAs, HSAs. Yum -- tastes good!
 
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