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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-07-2005, 08:18 AM   #21
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Re: Thirty & Broke

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Originally Posted by Laurence
Ditto, finally rolled the last of it into a home equity line.*

I have friends who make almost as much as we do without going to college.* He works 5 a.m. to 2 p.m. with a rotating week schedule, managing aircraft supply routes or something, his wife works ~4 to midnight managing the loading center for aircraft shipping (?), and they have their kid in daycare all sorts of hours and see each other on an odd day here or there.* It ain't just about the money wrt college, there is a quality of life factor as well.
Those wierd hours are becoming the norm... Even our PhDs are expected to work long hours, and be on call... But, in return, megacorp allows us to attend classes like "Balancing Work and Life"...
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-07-2005, 08:47 AM   #22
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Re: Thirty & Broke

I worked for a company that paid for 80% of my tuition if I kept a C average or above. There is no way I would have been able to do it otherwise. I worked a 60 to 70 hour week and went to school nights...tough but it taught me alot about what can be done when you want something bad enough.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-07-2005, 09:07 AM   #23
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Parrents picked up the tab for undergrad. For grad school, I paid for some of it, DW got some of it covered by working for the school, and the rest I found an employer to pay for. I estimate that I paid for about $10k of the roughly $70k total cash cost. Working and doing school about 2/3 time equivalent was not fun, but it got me where I am today.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-07-2005, 09:36 AM   #24
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Two cents more, anyone contemplating further/higher education should really try to put school first, work second. I have too many friends that tried to work full time and took ~6 units at a time. Years later they give up, disheartened because they aren't even half way to a BA.

WC, in a couple of years when you are pullin' down phat G's those student loans will be less than what you pay your Bently driver.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-07-2005, 09:40 AM   #25
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Ha! You mean I will be the Bently driver for some dude pulling down phat G's. Maybe Yrs to go or Brewer will need a driver.

P-T and work is tough. I just wanted to get it out of the way (1 1/2 vs. however long it takes to do it P-T) and didn't have an employer that would pay for it.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-07-2005, 07:12 PM   #26
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Calgary Girl - we're lucky here in Canada. Tuition is wayyyy lower than in the US - like 50-75% lower. Jo Jo
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-09-2005, 01:23 PM   #27
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Contrary to the impression given by the BW article, it is still possible to go to a private university and emerge debt free. At 34 I'm only about 3 years older than most of the people mentioned in BW. Nevertheless, both me and my wife, graduated debt free from private universities. My wife did so with zero support from her family. I had some help from my parents paying for my undergraduate degree but paid 100% of grad school on my own without borrowing a dime.

Many of the people featured in the BW article seemed very financially irresponsible. After accumulating mountains of various debt, one person used ~ $25K to pay for a big wedding. Another person, seemingly on the verge of bankruptcy, bought a $3,200 computer and a $1,500 digital camera. Etc, etc.

In my view the article was far too sympathetic to these people. Clearly the cost of education has grown out of control, but people don't NEED to borrow $100K+ to get an education (yet).
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-09-2005, 03:07 PM   #28
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Re: Thirty & Broke

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Originally Posted by AltaRed
We did the same thing for our sons, put them through the University of Calgary.* Wanted them to get a better start than DW and I did having to pay off student loans.* But we claimed all the tuition tax deductions to our own account.
That's our plan too. While other kids were paying off student loans from the U of C, I got a jump start on retirement by starting an RRSP when I was 20. We hope to give our kids the same benefit.

JoJo Girl is definitely right in saying that we have it much easier in Canada in terms of lower tuition. Hubby asked me the other day if we would still pay tuition if our kids wanted to go to school in the States. I told him that the U of C is a perfectly good school. If they want to go the States, they have to cover the difference between the U of C tuition and tuition south of the border. :P
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-09-2005, 05:11 PM   #29
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Re: Thirty & Broke

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Ha! You mean I will be the Bently driver for some dude pulling down phat G's. Maybe Yrs to go or Brewer will need a driver.
Still soliciting employment...no takers?

Quote:
In my view the article was far too sympathetic to these people. Clearly the cost of education has grown out of control, but people don't NEED to borrow $100K+ to get an education (yet).
Agree. Like I said I borrowed most of it and paid for a little of it. I'm not asking anyone to shed a tear for me or even a boo-hoo. It's a fact of life for some of us and at least it is more productive than say borrowing 40-50k in CC debt for junk. S/L help dumb people like me go to school and in return I will hopefully "contribute" to society someday.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-09-2005, 06:43 PM   #30
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat
Like I said I borrowed most of it and paid for a little of it.* I'm not asking anyone to shed a tear for me or even a boo-hoo.* It's a fact of life for some of us and at least it is more productive than say borrowing 40-50k in CC debt for junk.* S/L help dumb people like me go to school and in return I will hopefully "contribute" to society someday.* * *
Wildcat, I didn't mean to suggest that people shouldn't borrow to finance their education, within reason.* The BW article , however, centers around people who got themselves in to trouble, not because of high tuition costs, but mostly because they were financially irresponsible.* One wonders whether these people were destined for financial trouble regardless of how much their degree cost.* Consider the plight of poor William:

Quote:
He used his unemployment checks to pay the rent on a studio apartment. He lived off his credit cards, relying on a small sum that his extended family gave him to cover the minimum balance each month. He returned to school and bought a $3,200 computer system, then a $1,500 digital camera.
I think BW wrongly focused on the cost of higher education in this piece.* A better thrust of the article might be how many young people were raised to think they could have anything they wanted, exactly when they wanted it, without any form of sacrifice.* And how that mindset is now coming home to roost.*
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-13-2005, 08:05 AM   #31
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Re: Thirty & Broke

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Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
Ummm, try telling that to the welders at Delphi who are at risk of having their $30 / hr wage cut to $10 / hr.*

Delphi's demand: Take $9 an hour
My God that is tragic.* I haven't done any research, but how in the world are they getting away with this?* I am sure their prices didn't fall 65%.* Maybe there was a part of the plan that said if they keep all of the workers, that would be the new wage.* Unions can distort things to their favor.* A round of layoffs, unfortunate as they are, might be the plan for wage preservation.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-13-2005, 09:39 AM   #32
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Re: Thirty & Broke

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Originally Posted by Big D
My God that is tragic.* I haven't done any research, but how in the world are they getting away with this?* I am sure their prices didn't fall 65%.* Maybe there was a part of the plan that said if they keep all of the workers, that would be the new wage.* Unions can distort things to their favor.* A round of layoffs, unfortunate as they are, might be the plan for wage preservation.
It is, no doubt, the opening salvo in concession negotiations with the UAW.* If a deal is reached, worker comp will likely be better than this.* But if a deal is not reached, Delphi's Chapter 11 bankruptcy could be turned into a Chapter 7 - which means "no work for you!".*

However, one analyst estimated that Delphi's average compensation cost per U.S. worker is a whopping $125,000 per year.* This estimate includes pension and health care costs as well as payments going to "laid off" workers.* Yup, that's right - Delphi pays about 4,000 former employees to do nothing.

Did you ever hear the one about the farmer who killed the goose that laid the golden egg?*
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-15-2005, 03:59 PM   #33
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Yep, colleges are pricing themselves out of business. My brother in-law is a professor at a large state university. Teaching the same class for the a third year in a row; working less than 10 hours a week for 60k per year.

But try hiring a roofer ... they don't answer the phones; too much work out there.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-21-2005, 05:17 PM   #34
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Another reason students amass more college debt these days is that back then, most parents could count on a pension, while nowadays parents have to save a lot for retirement. My parents paid for my brothers' and my college educations, including part of one brother's dental school, and didn't save a dime for retirement--but they had my mother's pension to look forward to. Whereas with my children (from a previous marriage), we split their college bills 3 ways--1/3 form each parent and 1/3 from the kid. My daughter ended up with $3k in debt, which was paid off quickly. My son ended up with $20k in debt due to his choice of school, low-paid summer jobs, and not working during the school year. (But he graduated at the right time--he consolidated his loans at 2%!) Neither of my kids accumulated any credit card debt in college (or since) that I am aware of.

OH--and my DH is a college instructor. He works 40 hrs a week on regular stuff plus another 20 or more on research, all for $60k/year. He loves it and takes both teaching and keeping up to date seriously. He spends a lot of time on improving the content of his classes and his teaching skills. He spends hours daily (weekends too) helping students write their programs. But maybe that's becasue it's computer science. Anyway, he teaches at a public college where tuition has gone up almost the identical percent as state funding has gone down each year. Plus, to attract students (and their parents!) they need to build new and refurbish old dorms, classrooms, labs,* the arts center, the business school, the library, the science center.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-23-2005, 09:55 PM   #35
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Re: Thirty & Broke

The primary reason for the incredible increase in the cost of higher education (public) is:

1) Educator salaries
2) Benefits (for #1 ... especially pensions and health care)
3) Administrative costs (everyone not teaching but collecting a salary at universities)
4) Politicians that are elected,manipulated and paid for by lobbying interests representing
* * #1* and #3.

5)* We idiot taxpayers that are too lazy and/or stupid to let #1-4 exist.*

Final statement:* Both the U.S. Education & Healthcare Costs are HOPELESSLY BROKE.* It is truly
ugly and unfixable by the entities currently in place.* #5 will reach the breaking point
and then things will change..... that is sad and will be too late.* We are lazy.

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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-23-2005, 10:04 PM   #36
 
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Educator salaries high? - When are you signing up to be a teacher?

We are lazy? - Maybe too lazy to actually bone up on the facts!
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-23-2005, 10:20 PM   #37
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Re: Thirty & Broke

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Originally Posted by slipp
The primary reason for the incredible increase in the cost of higher education (public) is:
1) Educator salaries
According to the November 28 issue of Newsweek, "The average new teacher today makes just under $30,000 per year." (p. 100).

Looks like a problem all right, but not because it's too high...

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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-23-2005, 10:22 PM   #38
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipp
The primary reason for the incredible increase in the cost of higher education (public) is:

1) Educator salaries
. . .
I don't think you can find any data to back this up. *I know that when I left academia two decades ago, industrial salaries were much higher. *Based on conversations with my colleagues in academia today, that hasn't changed.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-23-2005, 11:40 PM   #39
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Re: Thirty & Broke

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Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
Ummm, try telling that to the welders at Delphi who are at risk of having their $30 / hr wage cut to $10 / hr.*

Delphi's demand: Take $9 an hour
Try telling that to 2 million Indian/Bamgladeshi/Indonesian/Chinese welders and they will say "WOW, , a 300% pay increase! Where do I sign where do I sign!!!!"

Unpleasant for the Delphi workers, but a fact of life in the 21st Century..
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-24-2005, 09:05 AM   #40
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Re: Thirty & Broke

College tuition of public institutions is still affordable to me - about $6K per year for undergraduate. The problem is that kids choose not to attend a local public university and not to stay home. Some kids would rather live on campus or nearby campus even though their parents is only 5 miles away. It seems funny to me that their parents are in full support of living out the home (as a way to become independent or promote social interactions with other students) but yet complaining about the exorbitant cost of college. They may say that we want the "best" for our kids. I guess that a local well-known public university is not good enough.

I guess there are some exceptions:
A decent college is far away.
The local univeristy does not offer the major wanted.
The local university is of lower tiers in ranking

As for me, I have a daughter who will be attending college soon. She can attend the University of Minnesota (that has a decent ranking in engineering) for $6K, the University of Wisconsin at Madison (another highly ranked engineering school) for $10K or an expensive college such as MIT, Cal Tech, USC or Stanford for $40K+. It may be true that she might be able to receive grants and scholarship for attending the expensive schools. The odds are slim that the total cost will be comparable to that of either U of Minn or U of Wis.
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