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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-25-2005, 06:25 PM   #61
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Re: Thirty & Broke

My two bits, that salary scale for full professors showed my local university at about $113k for the average at UCSD. Now it's already been stated that it takes some time to get to full professor. In addition, these people have Ph.Ds. At my work the typical BS grad coming into systems engineering makes ~65k to start, and everyone touches six figures pretty quickly ( I know a 25 year old who made 80k last year).
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-25-2005, 08:37 PM   #62
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Quote:
If you happen to be a member of IEEE, you can run the simulations for yourself:

http://salaryapp.ieeeusa.org/rt/sala...e/Compensation
It's depressing to see that my salary is about $25K less than what the calaculator indicates.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-25-2005, 09:58 PM   #63
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Re: Thirty & Broke

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Originally Posted by Spanky
It's depressing to see that my salary is about $25K less than what the calaculator indicates.
First, make sure you have entered all 13 parameters appropriately and the calculator is considering your situation. The calculator gives you decile ranking of salary. Figure out, based on your current salary,what decile you are in. Look around you at work and figure out if you think that's where you belong. If not, use the data as part of a discussion with your supervisor about what you should be paid.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-25-2005, 11:13 PM   #64
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Re: Thirty & Broke

SG,

Thanks. Here is the output:

Base Primary Sources
10th Percentile: $81,000.00 $83,900.00
20th Percentile: $89,200.00 $93,200.00
30th Percentile: $95,600.00 $100,600.00
40th Percentile: $101,300.00 $107,300.00
Median: $104,700.00 $110,900.00
60th Percentile: $113,500.00 $121,500.00
70th Percentile: $120,400.00 $129,600.00
80th Percentile: $129,000.00 $139,900.00
90th Percentile: $142,000.00 $155,500.00

I am targeting for the median.

Spanky
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-26-2005, 11:27 AM   #65
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Re: Thirty & Broke

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Originally Posted by Spanky
SG,

Thanks. Here is the output:

Base* Primary Sources
10th Percentile: $81,000.00 $83,900.00
20th Percentile: $89,200.00 $93,200.00
30th Percentile: $95,600.00 $100,600.00
40th Percentile: $101,300.00 $107,300.00
Median: $104,700.00 $110,900.00
60th Percentile: $113,500.00 $121,500.00
70th Percentile: $120,400.00 $129,600.00
80th Percentile: $129,000.00 $139,900.00
90th Percentile: $142,000.00 $155,500.00

I am targeting for the median.

Spanky
good luck, Spanky. You might want to start another thread and ask the board for advice on how to approach your supervisor. This discussion has come up before and a lot of folks have good suggestions. The more organized you are when you present your position, the better your chance of being successful.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-26-2005, 11:42 AM   #66
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Quote:
Originally Posted by ((^+^)) SG

EMPLOYER TYPE. . . . . BASE SALARY ADJUSTMENT
Private Industry . . . .* . . . . 0%
Defense Industry . . . . . . . -3.1%
Education . . . . . . . . . . . . . -12.9%

Does this calculation take into account compensation per hour worked? Does it include the compensation professors receive for publishing their research, text books, speaking engagements, etc?

I've never worked at a university but many of my professors only spent about 10-15 hours per week in a class room. They seemed to recycle the same lectures year after year so I wouldn't think the prep time was too bad for anyone who had been doing it a while. Many also had teacher's assistants to grade papers and tutor students. Considering that the academic year only runs about 8 months out of the year, $100K seems like a sweet deal, especially if you can then turn around and sell your research for additional $.

What am I missing?

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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-26-2005, 12:03 PM   #67
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Re: Thirty & Broke

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Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
Does this calculation take into account compensation per hour worked?* Does it include the compensation professors receive for publishing their research, text books, speaking engagements, etc?*
Yep, you don't know how professors work.* At least in the science field, they run their group like a small business.* They do not receive compensation per se for publishing their research.* Indeed, almost all the journals charge "page charges", so professors have to pay journals* to get published.* They run their research group like a small business.* They have to rent space from the university and get the money to do so from their research grants.* They spend 30-40% of their time writing grants, 30%-40% managing their employees (post docs, grad students, etc), 10-15% of their time teaching, another 10-20% of their time on committees or travelling to committees and meetings, etc.* Oops, that's more than 100% of time.

I'm not sure what English profs do or how they pay for the electricity and heat in their offices, but I'm pretty certain how a biochemist does it.

There was a great NPR commentary on how the reporter wanted to be professor because they only worked about 6 hours a week giving lectures.* *I had the thought: "Wow, it would be better to be an NPR reporter because you only work about 5 minutes a week giving an on-air commentary."

While teaching can be the principal role that a prof plays, this is often one of the lesser tasks that they perform.* Those profs that write more grants, get more grants and thus get paid more, IMHO.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-26-2005, 01:02 PM   #68
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Quote:
Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
. . .

What am I missing?

Just about everything. LOL gives a fairly accurate description of what an engineering professor has to do too. Teaching is a very small part of the job of being an engineering professor at any research institution. My colleagues considered me a workaholic when I worked in industry, but I can tell you. . . I never had a job that consumed more hours and effort than being an Assistant professor.

The professor job is different at a college that offers only undergraduate degrees. I can't tell you much about the work load at these teaching institutions. I think they teach far more courses than a research professor does. They still have to serve on countless committees to establish policy and help run the college. But I think you will also find that salaries for teaching professors are much lower than those of researchers.

The rule-of-thumb estimate on teaching that used to be tossed around was that it took 3 to 4 hours out of class for every hour in the classroom. While preparation time does go down when you teach the same course multiple times, you still have to meet with students, grade papers, etc. Or in larger classes, you have to coordinate teaching assistants. Lab classes were a huge time sink.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-26-2005, 04:50 PM   #69
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Quote:
Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
Does this calculation take into account compensation per hour worked?* Does it include the compensation professors receive for publishing their research, text books, speaking engagements, etc?*

I've never worked at a university but many of my professors only spent about 10-15 hours per week in a class room.* They seemed to recycle the same lectures year after year so I wouldn't think the prep time was too bad for anyone who had been doing it a while.* Many also had teacher's assistants to grade papers and tutor students.* Considering that the academic year only runs about 8 months out of the year, $100K seems like a sweet deal, especially if you can then turn around and sell your research for additional $.*

What am I missing?

When I was single, I dated a teacher for 11 months (high school).
I have no idea what $ she made, but she was overpaid IMHO.
She just winged it and if stuck for ideas, she plugged in a movie and
let the class discuss it afterwards. A real soft job, second only to the cops
in this "one horse" town. The hardest part of their job is deciding
where to buy donuts.

JG
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-26-2005, 06:36 PM   #70
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Re: Thirty & Broke

What folks think about the difficulty or ease, importance or irrelevance of a vocation/profession should have little to do with the salaries being offered and paid.* Whether professors work 1,000, 2,000 or 3,000 hours per year is of no concern to anyone other than the professors.* It all comes down to free markets, market knowledge and competition.

If a university has an opening and there are stacks of highly qualified resumes being sent in, the pay is adequate or perhaps high.* If few or no qualified applicants are interested, the pay offered is too low.

Subjective analysis as to the value of a vocation just doesn't cut it IMHO.*
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-27-2005, 10:05 AM   #71
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Even with the understanding of supply and demand in a market economy, I often struggle with the doctrine of demand comprised of desire, ability to pay and willingness to pay. I know that if a buyer wants an item badly, he/she will pay more for it. However, it never seizes to amaze me that a sport team is willing to pay an athlete millions of dollars and a mega corporation is willing to pay management exorbitant compensation and retirement benefits, albeit they seemingly have the ability to pay. My feeling is: whatever turns them on! Letís ignore it and have fun.
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Re: Thirty & Broke
Old 11-27-2005, 06:24 PM   #72
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Re: Thirty & Broke

Wow - a lot to catch up on!

My institution is considered "state related." There are 19(?) campuses, including a medcial center. Our budget is about 3 billion a year and only 10% of that comes from the state (thus the semi-public status). 33% comes from tuition dollars, which have increased 37% in the last 5 years.

Of the 3billion, the college spends less than 20 million on benefits & retirement for faculty, staff and grad assistants. Faculty and staff got an average 2% increase this past year, and 2.5% the year before.

As a lower level administrator, I don't consider myself overpaid. I make 37k a year on a 12 month contract. I have a good benefits package, but my health insurance costs are going up 18% in January and went up about the same last year. 2 positions in my office have been cut this academic year and the result has been an increase of over 40% in my caseload. Another colleague passed away recently and the bosses claim they never had the money to pay her salary in the first place, so I'm expecting another 10% increase in students soon. The kids I advise make about $2400 a month on internship alone (although some as much as double that) and graduate with starting salaries much higher (sometimes double or more) than my salary.

All that said, my job is great and I love the kids I work with.

Since I work in a business school, faculty salaries are very high. As someone mentioned earlier, we are competing with leaders of industry for our faculty members. In order to have a top ranked program, we have to bring in people with real life practical experience. Many faculty in higher education are responsible for raising their own salaries through research and grants. They're actually buying back their time from the university in order to do research. The university then pays someone else a lower salary to teach the classes that the faculty member has "bought out." This is savings for the university. In a Research I university such as ours, some professors could be buying back as much as 80% of their salary or more. So they might make $100k, but they bring in 50k of that through their research and thus teach only half time. The university takes the 50k saved and hires someone else to teach the courses at 20k. Then the univ can use the saved 30k for something else. I guess what I'm trying to say is that a salary of 100k is inflated. The university might only be paying out 70k of that.

What bothers me is the obvious frivolous spending at my university, and specifically within my college. We just built a 69million dollar building. It's really nice, but does the furniture really have to be leather?? Do we need more than twenty 36" plasma screens throughout the building that show you where the nearest computer labs are? (they aren't in are building because we're all wireless and expect our students to be also).

Sorry for the rant.
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