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Old 06-17-2008, 12:52 PM   #61
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I do not have the patience to be an entepreneur. I see too many people with their "own businesses" who are "at work" wherever they are. No thank you. My free time is truly mine. But, thank you to those entrepreneurs who I do patronize in one form or another - you do work hard for my money
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:20 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Fireup2025 View Post
I do not have the patience to be an entepreneur. I see too many people with their "own businesses" who are "at work" wherever they are. No thank you. My free time is truly mine. But, thank you to those entrepreneurs who I do patronize in one form or another - you do work hard for my money
I'm not sure why you think it takes "patience" to be an entrepreneur.

Maybe you meant to say "perseverance" or "persistence." In any case, you are right that not everyone has what it takes to be a successful entrepreneur.

Actually, during your non-free time you are working hard for the entrepreneur of your company as one of his money-making tools.
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Old 06-25-2008, 11:23 AM   #63
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I'm not sure why you think it takes "patience" to be an entrepreneur.

Maybe you meant to say "perseverance" or "persistence." In any case, you are right that not everyone has what it takes to be a successful entrepreneur.

Actually, during your non-free time you are working hard for the entrepreneur of your company as one of his money-making tools.
It's all about the numbers I suppose, and the intangible rewards like satisfaction and "quality of life".

If you're working 24/7 for 100k and I'm working 40 hours a week for 75k plus benefits, I'm fine with the 75k. If you're working 70 hours a week for 500k and I'm working 60 for 125... you win!

In the end though I see a lot of people in this thread convincing themselves their way is best. Which it probably is, for them. I have a boss, my father was his own boss. If you asked him though, the company was his boss. He answered to it in many ways.

All that said, can anyone recommend some good books for a prospective entrepreneur? I have some ideas but I find it easier to see specific examples of successes and pick and choose parts of them to incorporate into my own situation.
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Old 06-25-2008, 11:57 AM   #64
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...can anyone recommend some good books for a prospective entrepreneur?
The E-Myth by Michael Gerber
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:06 PM   #65
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Well, I havent read this entire thread, so it may have 'drifted' a bit....but I certainly am an entrepreneur. I own 2 bonafide businesses as well as a couple rental properties. I havent worked for another company for 3 years....I'm 25 and loving it. BUT, I actually HATE one of my businesses because I have to WORK too much. ER is my goal, and I will ER ASAP. All I think about is retiring. I do love the gravy jobs that come along once or twice a year (example: clearing about 8k for a job that I will have worked 35-40 hrs on this month)....but the day to day grind, phone calls, a$$-kissing customers, angry customers, etc is for the birds.

IMHO, I'd rather work 55 hrs/week for MYSELF and make, say 50k/yr, than work 35-40hrs week for someone else and make80k. Because I KNOW if I'm making 80k, the work I'm putting in is worth more than that...and I dont sell myself short for anyone!

One thing is for sure...I certainly do drop the 10% or so of customers that even INDICATE they might be a PITA. BUT, a few that I ALMOST dropped but didnt for one reason or the other turned into big $$$...by referrals or other reasons all-together. But maaaan is it nice to say "You know what,I dont think this is working out. Good Luck!" The look on their faces is priceless...
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:32 PM   #66
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Hmmm - isn't it sort of a belly button thing? For instance I had a duplex/dabbled in real estate for 15 yrs but never really scaled up(I knew how and could have) but after a while ' I knew' it wasn't my thing.

Sort of felt that way about 'my own business' - being trumped by the 'romance?' of the Space Program 1966 - 1993.

heh heh heh -
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:51 AM   #67
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I'd rather work 55 hrs/week for MYSELF and make, say 50k/yr, than work 35-40hrs week for someone else and make80k. Because I KNOW if I'm making 80k, the work I'm putting in is worth more than that...and I dont sell myself short for anyone!
Huh? :confused: :confused: :confused:
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:00 AM   #68
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Huh? :confused: :confused: :confused:
You have to have a certain mindset to understand that concept.

In other words, he'd rather bust his hump for himself than do it for someone else, even if there is less of a cash benefit in doing so. It's not the fact that there will be less cash at the end of the day. It's the fact that you are not making yourself into a tool for someone else.

It's all about being your own master.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:30 AM   #69
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Weird.

Or maybe I'm the weird one.

I do work for myself, for an employer, and for other businesses as a contractor. The work I do for myself is for fun and prestige and to fill some gaping hole in my soul. If I were doing it to make money, though, it'd be because it's a calculated risk that I'll make a lot more in the future if I forego the earnings now and pour myself into the effort. It's in the same vein as LBYM. Delayed gratification of another sort.

You still need to sell what the market wants, though, so are you really your own master?

Likewise, for my working hours, I can choose to sell them to a business as an employee or as a contractor. Even as an independant contractor, I'm not my own boss, I'm just as free to choose who pays for my hours, but I'm still doing what the customer (either my salaried employer or my client) needs done.

Then again, I'm one of those disenfranchised gen-x'ers with no brand or company loyalty.
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:18 PM   #70
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Thanks for the explanation. I still don't get it, though.

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It's not the fact that there will be less cash at the end of the day. It's the fact that you are not making yourself into a tool for someone else.
The fact is, if you are working you are always a tool for someone else. Although an entrepreneur doesn't have a boss per se, he or she still has clients/customers (whose whims must be attended to).

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It's all about being your own master.
Well, you're only truly your own master when you're not working.

Assuming equal expenses, an annual income of $80,000 would lead to FIRE sooner than $50,000. And fewer hours of work (35-40 per week) obviously provides increased leisure time in pre-retirement.
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:40 PM   #71
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Thanks for the explanation. I still don't get it, though.
...Assuming equal expenses, an annual income of $80,000 would lead to FIRE sooner than $50,000. And fewer hours of work (35-40 per week) obviously provides increased leisure time in pre-retirement.
I forgot to mention a lot of entrepreneurs have another characteristic.....stubbornness.
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Old 06-30-2008, 01:31 PM   #72
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You have to have a certain mindset to understand that concept.

In other words, he'd rather bust is hump for himself than do it for someone else, even if there is less of a cash benefit in doing so. It's not the fact that there will be less cash at the end of the day. It's the fact that you are not making yourself into a tool fool for someone else.

It's all about being your own master.
Fixed that for you....
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:08 PM   #73
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Fixed that for you....
That too
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:04 PM   #74
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Were I an entrepreneur or an entrepreneuse, I might be reticent to refer to myself as such conversationally.

French words may sound très chic to those who fancy themselves among the crème de la crème, but pretentious verbal dingleberries are the linguistic bete noir of the hoi polloi (not a French term, but maybe just as alien and alienating to the hoi polloi). Could it be that sometimes the raison d'être of the imported bon mot is as a verbal accoutrement for haute monde poseurs to show their élan, savoir faire, and blasé je ne se qua? If conversing or writing in English, mimes may often be the best source for appropriate French terminology. Exhibit a: the preceding.

In other words - I'd probably be more comfortable with the handle "businessman" if it referred to me - but it doesn't.
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:51 AM   #75
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Personally I don't see any problem with using French words, always provided that they are used, spelled and pronounced correctly.

Unfortunately, words / phrases like "cache", "hors d'oeuvre", "Notre Dame" and "foyer" are verbally butchered by 99% of Americans. And one all too often sees the most ridiculous misspellings of, e.g., "beaucoup", "Champagne", "liaison" and "voilà".
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:15 PM   #76
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Going to Notre Dame, it generally isn't that people call it Notre Dame in the sense that you hate because they aer ignorant but everyone who pronounces it differently (correctly in French) are usually pretentious/outsiders.
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:59 PM   #77
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To the poster who said entrepreneurs would not use this site much - I disagree - I've been an entrepreneur all my life but still think about retirement - I find the advice on this site excellent and visit often.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:31 AM   #78
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You have to have a certain mindset to understand that concept.

In other words, he'd rather bust his hump for himself than do it for someone else, even if there is less of a cash benefit in doing so. It's not the fact that there will be less cash at the end of the day. It's the fact that you are not making yourself into a tool for someone else.

It's all about being your own master.
I agree. I work as an independent contractor through a temporary help agency. Legally, I'm not self-employed, but I run my own business in every other way.

It turns out that I actually make more money working as a contractor than I would as a direct employee. It does take some getting used to because my "last paycheck" may actually be my last paycheck if the client doesn't renew or I can't find another assignment right away. This reality back in the mid 1990s was what forced me to live well below my means and invest the rest so that I could FIRE sooner rather than later someday (along with learning how to manage my personal finances to be able to handle lumpy income streams).

Some contractors end up getting hired by their clients, which we refer to as "going permanent" when talking with people who are not contractors. But when we talk among ourselves, we refer to this as "becoming captive" because it means we lose out independence to choose the assignments we will work on (which happens by refusing the assignments we don't want to work on and interviewing for those assignments we do want to work on).

But we still have to satisfy the needs of our clients. We joke that we've exchanged "perceived security" (as a direct employee) for "perceived freedom" (as a contractor). One of my business school professors put it best when he said: Management is the world's newest profession and it has a lot in common with the world's oldest profession. He could have been talking about independent contractors and self-employed people as well.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:47 PM   #79
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without reading every post responded, IMO it's much better to be an entrepreneur because most of "successful" people that i know are entrepreneurs NOT employee. You can always find a job once u failed as an entrepreneurs. In my personal family, the one have their own business works harder but much more financially sound. 2 sisters and 1 brother of my have enuff money to last them 2 life time and the rest of us employee are doing OK too but we might have to crank 30-40 years of working life and a constant of worrying about keeping our jobs.

enuff
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:00 PM   #80
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There are many successful entrepreneurs who have done very well and made lots of money. There are also plenty of unsuccessful entrepreneurs who have failed (in some cases repeatedly) and wound up deeply in debt, or bankruptcy.

An employee may have to worry about losing his or her job, but a small business owner has to worry about losing clients/customers, making payroll, combatting employee theft/laziness/absenteeism, etc. There are very few worry-free employment options.

Ultimately, whether it is "better" to be a salaried employee or an entrepreneur is probably a moot point. Most salaried people are too conservative to face the challenges of self-employment. Most entrepreneurs are too independent to face the demands of a regular boss. It's kinda like debating whether it's "better" to be an introvert or an extrovert: we can't really control our basic personalities, so why worry about it?
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