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Old 11-19-2016, 09:53 PM   #41
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If I were a welder, I might look for a job in a shipyard or a nuclear plant.
I've got a relative that learned welding in the Army ( he was stationed in Kosovo during the conflict there). He's been working in construction to build a power plant, and he showed some of the pictures of his work. It was impressive - big high pressure pipes, welded, and then monitored with thermal blankets all around them, and a dozen laptops with thermo-couples and data logging software to assure the welds cooled at a specific rate for strength/integrity.

Pretty sophisticated stuff.

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Old 11-20-2016, 06:15 AM   #42
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Pretty sophisticated stuff.
And high paying as a consequence.
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Old 11-20-2016, 08:14 AM   #43
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My career was in mechanical engineering. Welding to mechanical engineering seems like a pretty natural path of progression but ME is a hard degree. Lots of math. If you didn't get a solid high school education and don't have good study skills then I'm not sure I would recommend this.

However, you might consider Computer Aided Design. You will work closely with engineers and CAD is mostly solitary work in a cubical. Most people interactions are one-on-one. I've employed CAD designers who are shy and quiet.
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Old 11-23-2016, 07:49 AM   #44
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I am with the others on going for something that you like.... but, if you are doing it for salary I would think forestry and history are at the low end... from what I hear, park rangers do not make much...
I
My husband is a forester with a 2 year degree and last year he made 90k. Some of the companies he works for (run by 4 year degreed foresters) made considerably more than that. If you work for a state or government agency you won't make much but land management companies and paper companies pay pretty well. Forestry is a cyclical business and when the construction industry is not doing well, jobs are sometimes hard to come by.
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:59 AM   #45
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Good thing about forestry those jobs won't be sent to Thailand or China as many of the IT jobs have been.
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:15 AM   #46
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Also late to this thread. As for computers (programming or software engineering), beware of the outsourcing competition.

And if you are an introvert, be prepared for a shock. The current rage is "agile", which means "scrums," "pair programming," and "bullpens." This is causing some issues. Here's what programming looks like today at a lot of places:



Introverts are not always adapting well in this environment.

The below looks very familiar. I'm not adjusting. Hence why I will RE:
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:44 AM   #47
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Yeah that Agile stuff sounded stressful to me...I am more of a deep thinker who enjoys work that allows me some control of when I interact with others.

BTW I found the book The Introvert Advantage to be very insightful

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Old 11-23-2016, 02:11 PM   #48
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Introverts are not always adapting well in this environment.
I have always thought that the 'open workspace' concept was devised by evil HR folks specifically to torture introverts. After a few weeks of that, they'd find me in the broom closet desperately sucking up some alone time. 😀
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Old 11-23-2016, 02:17 PM   #49
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I have always thought that the 'open workspace' concept was devised by evil HR folks specifically to torture introverts. After a few weeks of that, they'd find me in the broom closet desperately sucking up some alone time. ��
Yeah, we now book the broom closets for this purpose.

In all seriousness, I really don't know what the hell happened here in the computer/IT world. Some guys got this idea that it worked well for their team, and management grabbed it and ran. They love the fact that the density is about 2x cubes, for starters. In scrum, they love standups for the constant "feedback."

But for introverts and thinkers, it is murder. It doesn't work for everyone, but this is not understood. It doesn't matter.

To make matters worse, they say: "We need this to attract Millenials." But nearly every millenial at w*rk I speak to says they are not happy with it.

I grabbed those pictures from a web search on "programming bullpens". You'll find many more articles about it tilting towards a lot of unhappiness.

I just want to warn those out there about this. What used to be a fairly solitary profession has moved towards a love-fest with your neighbor. Pair-programming is a real blast. Oh yeah, love it.

* Pair programming is where you write your code with somebody literally watching your every move. You say: "I'm going to add these two variables, so that will be x = a + b" Your pair watches you and says, "No, it should be x = b + a" Seriously. What a pain in the a...

I guess in welding it would be: "I'm going to put a tack 1/8" away from the low side." Your pair would watch and say: "Nah, run a bead over here."

Lots of fun. Right.
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Old 11-23-2016, 02:25 PM   #50
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* Pair programming is where you write your code with somebody literally watching your every move. You say: "I'm going to add these two variables, so that will be x = a + b" Your pair watches you and says, "No, it should be x = b + a" Seriously. What a pain in the a...

I guess in welding it would be: "I'm going to put a tack 1/8" away from the low side." Your pair would watch and say: "Nah, run a bead over here."

Lots of fun. Right.
Wow. If this type of workplace becomes the standard I'd look for homicide rates to skyrocket!
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Old 11-29-2016, 10:43 AM   #51
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Wow. If this type of workplace becomes the standard I'd look for homicide rates to skyrocket!
Yes, agile is definitely the new norm, and only as good as your team practicing it.

At my place we have only one pit. If you're in it you'd better believe the executives are watching it.
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:18 PM   #52
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Yeah, we now book the broom closets for this purpose.

In all seriousness, I really don't know what the hell happened here in the computer/IT world. Some guys got this idea that it worked well for their team, and management grabbed it and ran. They love the fact that the density is about 2x cubes, for starters. In scrum, they love standups for the constant "feedback."

But for introverts and thinkers, it is murder. It doesn't work for everyone, but this is not understood. It doesn't matter.
LOL. Well, there are always the bathroom stalls, or so I thought. Now there are folks in the stalls 'yaking on their cell phones. Last time I'm borrowing someone's phone...

The "group-grope" style that seems to have infested the programming world is invading other areas as well. Two decades ago, I started into electrical and mechanical development with programming thrown in for good measure. I picked engineering because I knew I was an introvert who could do math and physics.

About a couple of years before I FIRE'd, project managers really took over all the real decision making away from lead engineers and their technical teams. Most emphasis was placed by the project manager on managing upwards, that is, CYA and dog-and-pony shows for the division president. What a waste of time...

This kind of crap was one of the main reasons I left engineering to FIRE. Well, the jobs in my area were moved overseas too. I know because I helped move them... I knew this was a limited duration gig!

Was just talking to a bright young gal who is just applying to undergrad engineering schools. She's much brighter, on paper at least, than I ever was. I asked whether she was an introvert or extrovert. When she replied "extrovert", I told her that she would fit in just fine.

So other than FIRE, what's out there for introvert geeks that pays well??
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:25 PM   #53
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I guess in welding it would be: "I'm going to put a tack 1/8" away from the low side." Your pair would watch and say: "Nah, run a bead over here."

Lots of fun. Right.
"But wait, maybe we should do a pre-meeting with the Project Manager so he can schedule a meeting with the C-suite so that they can make the decision for us..."

Nuts, my weld is getting cold...
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:58 AM   #54
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I'm going to go a bit counter to a few of the posts about programming. There are still plenty of work from home programming jobs out there. Yes, you'll have conference calls, but you need naps to keep coding well, lol! And yes, you will need to talk with the person who wrote the spec, but that's not the big deal for an introvert, or at least not for this introvert; I don't mind having a few people for a small amount of time per day, the problem is too many people that I can never keep track of that's unsettling.

And even as an introvert, I liked the small bit of pair programming I did. One time I was less experienced and I learned more in two days than a month of looking up stuff and reading. The other time, I knew more and the other person was like a sponge and by the end of the time, was so appreciative, it made going into the office fun.
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Old 12-04-2016, 05:00 AM   #55
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Become an air traffic controller. Most of us make close to or over $100,000. Federal pension and TSP and many other benefits. No degree required. 8 hour days (10 max), and you never take your work home with you.

Just a thought.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:00 AM   #56
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I'm going to go a bit counter to a few of the posts about programming. There are still plenty of work from home programming jobs out there. Yes, you'll have conference calls, but you need naps to keep coding well, lol! And yes, you will need to talk with the person who wrote the spec, but that's not the big deal for an introvert, or at least not for this introvert; I don't mind having a few people for a small amount of time per day, the problem is too many people that I can never keep track of that's unsettling.

And even as an introvert, I liked the small bit of pair programming I did. One time I was less experienced and I learned more in two days than a month of looking up stuff and reading. The other time, I knew more and the other person was like a sponge and by the end of the time, was so appreciative, it made going into the office fun.
seng: you have some good points to counter my sourness. It is not all bad. Anyone going into the field simply has to be aware of trends. Agree that there are some jobs out there as you describe. They are dwindling, however.

And be aware that the job could get converted to scrum. This happened to some of my "work from home" co-w*rkers, who suddenly found their worlds turned upside down. Google "Marissa Mayer Work From Home" to learn a lot more about that scenario. (I don't work at Yahoo, it is just similar.)

Finally, pair programming in small doses is good. Small doses.
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:20 PM   #57
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You mention low grades in high school because you didn't care. This might cause you some problems. Start at a local CC, but be warned they will have entry level testing you would take in at least English and Math. If you don't hit the college entry benchmark in all tests, you basically have to retake high school math and English until you hit the benchmarks, you will pay for these classes but get no college credit.

My advice is to start this procedure and just start to fill the basics that's a good way to start finding out what interest you and go from there.
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Old 12-05-2016, 06:55 AM   #58
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About a couple of years before I FIRE'd, project managers really took over all the real decision making away from lead engineers and their technical teams. Most emphasis was placed by the project manager on managing upwards, that is, CYA and dog-and-pony shows for the division president. What a waste of time.
Scott Adams has built an entire career on parodying documenting this nonsense.
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Re: "no one ever got rich working for someone else"
Old 12-06-2016, 05:03 AM   #59
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Re: "no one ever got rich working for someone else"

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You must not look at all the people that have worked for Google or Facebook or even way back when with IBM....

I was an intern for IBM in the 70s.... and they had some janitors who were millionaires because of stock options they had.... they had worked for the company for many many years, but still became rich...

I have a niece who has a BF who is rich... works for Facebook... has always worked for Facebook....

I knew many people at my mega who made over $1 million a year.... yep, they are rich....
+1 There are many paths to wealth, and self-employment is only one.

Many people are not temperamentally suited to becoming entrepreneurs. That doesn't mean they can't become financially independent.

If "rich" means billionaire, then it's certainly true that no salaried employees have or will become rich. But surely most people would be content to be multi-millionaires; and there are plenty of the latter who made their money working for other people.

Finally, even assuming that "rich" equals billionaire, and that the OP actually aspires to that level, the fact remains that the vast majority of small business owners will never get there notwithstanding their self-employed status.
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:22 AM   #60
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For a non degree career, I would enter aviation mechanics. United Continental just settled their contract at $47+/hour, 70% of mechanics are in the top tier seniority rank. DF was one for 46 years.
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