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Old 08-24-2008, 06:21 PM   #61
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Most people don't work 40+ weeks – they just claim they do. They forget about the days they left early for the doctor appointment, to meet with a teacher...
... time spent browsing and posting on internet forums...
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:23 AM   #62
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I'm normally not on the clock longer than 40 hours per week. I actually work maybe 24 hours per week, but that is the nature of my job. I am strictly reactive and unless there is work at the job site I sit around watching TV or cruise the internet. It is odd watching TV when the boss comes in and not having to feel guilty about it. Any O/T clocked is paid at double time, so I really don't mind pulling it.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:23 AM   #63
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I'm normally not on the clock longer than 40 hours per week. I actually work maybe 24 hours per week, but that is the nature of my job. I am strictly reactive and unless there is work at the job site I sit around watching TV or cruise the internet. It is odd watching TV when the boss comes in and not having to feel guilty about it. Any O/T clocked is paid at double time, so I really don't mind pulling it.
Why retire from that gig?
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Old 08-26-2008, 12:35 PM   #64
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Why retire from that gig?
I was spoiled when I took a year off. Now I'd rather do things I want instead of going to work everyday.
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:46 PM   #65
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I agree with bigwonderfulwyoming. Sounds like you've got a good thing going, and 40 hours a week max on the job (24 hours actually working) should provide a fair bit of time to pursue other interests; especially if your employer is open to granting you a year off every now and again.
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:59 PM   #66
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Believe me I'm not complaining, but I'm not sticking around any longer than I have to either. I figure it''s payback for all of the free O/T I pulled in the military...........................plus interest.
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Old 08-27-2008, 07:47 PM   #67
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I agree with bigwonderfulwyoming.


I'm off to buy a lottery ticket!
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Old 08-28-2008, 04:36 PM   #68
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Believe me I'm not complaining, but I'm not sticking around any longer than I have to either. I figure it''s payback for all of the free O/T I pulled in the military...........................plus interest.
When I served, I was told that I got paid for a 24-hour day (no need to get paid OT )...

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Old 08-28-2008, 11:15 PM   #69
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I work 40-44ish. I'm paid hourly and am effectively a software developer in the Biotech industry. One of the reasons I took the job is that I knew I'd be paid hourly, so if I was getting crazy hours(50+) I'd be rewarded for it.
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:17 AM   #70
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Most people don't work 40+ weeks they just claim they do. .
I sure agree with that. I was managing a small team at MegaCorp my last few years of w*rk. It was common for folks to yak/brag/bs/moan about the long, unfair hours they worked. Most claimed to be putting in 60 hrs or more. So, at performance review time, I added a discussion of hours worked and my commitment to make sure they didn't have to work 60 hour weeks to the performance review agenda with each person.

It turned out no one was putting in those kind of hours. Typically, people were working 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM with an hour lunch. Because staying until 6:00 PM really eats into your evening, especially if you have a long commute, most genuinely felt they were working long hours and just guessed that it must be about 60. Yet, they were only working 45 and, in fact, most readily admitted occassionally needing an hour or two or three off during work hours which reduced that......... Typically most were actually only at their desk for 42 or 43 hours, a long, long way from 60!

During the performance reviews, I reaffirmed my commitment to them that I'd fight to be sure they didn't have to work the dreaded 60 hour weeks they were all moaning about!

I think it's easy to get into a mindset that you're working massive hours when you're not. If you're actually working 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM with a brief half hour lunch (I count coffee breaks and water cooler time as time worked), you're working 47.5 hours. But, if you have a lengthly commute you probably leave the house around 7:00 AM and don't get home until 7:00 PM, totally consuming your day. So you feel you're spending your life working.....yeah, it must be at least 60 hours! Yeah.....right.....
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Old 08-30-2008, 06:49 PM   #71
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I think it's easy to get into a mindset that you're working massive hours when you're not. If you're actually working 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM with a brief half hour lunch (I count coffee breaks and water cooler time as time worked), you're working 47.5 hours. But, if you have a lengthly commute you probably leave the house around 7:00 AM and don't get home until 7:00 PM, totally consuming your day. So you feel you're spending your life working.....yeah, it must be at least 60 hours!
Yes, I agree.

The solution to long commutes is pretty simple: buy a modest house near where you work (for most people, in the city), rather than a mini-mansion located far away in the suburbs. You can take public transit and save on transportation costs, too.
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Old 08-30-2008, 06:51 PM   #72
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Yes, I agree.

The solution to long commutes is pretty simple: buy a modest house near where you work (for most people, in the city), rather than a mini-mansion located far away in the suburbs. You can take public transit and save on transportation costs, too.
You talk funny. You aren't from around here are you.
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Old 08-30-2008, 08:06 PM   #73
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I sure agree with that. I was managing a small team at MegaCorp my last few years of w*rk. It was common for folks to yak/brag/bs/moan about the long, unfair hours they worked. Most claimed to be putting in 60 hrs or more. So, at performance review time, I added a discussion of hours worked and my commitment to make sure they didn't have to work 60 hour weeks to the performance review agenda with each person.

It turned out no one was putting in those kind of hours. Typically, people were working 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM with an hour lunch. Because staying until 6:00 PM really eats into your evening, especially if you have a long commute, most genuinely felt they were working long hours and just guessed that it must be about 60. Yet, they were only working 45 and, in fact, most readily admitted occassionally needing an hour or two or three off during work hours which reduced that......... Typically most were actually only at their desk for 42 or 43 hours, a long, long way from 60!
I don't know how it was in your area, but in the telecom where I worked, many put in 40 or so in the office, eating lunch at your desk while the phone is on mute. Then you would go home and put in 10-25 hr/week, to do the work you couldn't get done during the day due to meetings, calls, whatever. In my particular case, I was on call 24x7, so I actually did more work from home than I did in the office. I freely admit the office face time was often wasted, but it was required, so I count it.

When I read "The 4 Hour Work Week", the best thing I took away from it was to avoid the meetings and calls, and get your butt out of the office whenever possible. I was already retired by then, but it sounds like great advice. Of course, you need to be a top performer with a reasonable manager to get away with it. Few and far between.
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Old 08-31-2008, 12:02 AM   #74
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What an interesting thread - accidentally discovered. As an officer in US Army, very rarely do I work less than 50-60 hrs/wk. Maybe that should be expected since we currently are involved in TWO wars. In fact, yesterday (Sat) and today (Sun) I'll put in 4-6 hrs extra to catch up on work. Sometimes I tell myself that I'm lucky not to be worrying about IEDs as some of my colleagues are right now.

I too have very little time for physical exercise except maybe 9 holes of golf early Sat/Sunday starting at 6-7 a.m. before going in.

My biggest complaint is that I'm too darn tired to go out for a run or do anything physical at the end of the day - and feel that over the long run these work hours will likely lead to early medical problems.
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Old 08-31-2008, 01:28 AM   #75
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You talk funny. You aren't from around here are you.
Usually he makes sense but no doubt he ain't from 'round these parts either, I'll garentee 'ya. Modest house in the city? Ya, right.
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:56 AM   #76
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Yes, I agree.

The solution to long commutes is pretty simple: buy a modest house near where you work (for most people, in the city), rather than a mini-mansion located far away in the suburbs. You can take public transit and save on transportation costs, too.
Don't forget to include the cost of the security system monitoring and home protection (what ever you decide it should be). You're correct though that would solve the long commute issue.
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Old 08-31-2008, 09:13 AM   #77
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I don't know how it was in your area, but in the telecom where I worked, many put in 40 or so in the office, eating lunch at your desk while the phone is on mute. Then you would go home and put in 10-25 hr/week, to do the work you couldn't get done during the day due to meetings, calls, whatever.
I was also in the telecom industry.

It seemed to me that folks in management who had much discretion as to how much and when they worked often worked longer hours than folks who had specific, mandated hours.

For example, I had direct reports in both NA and Asia and therefore worked face-to-face with the NA folks during the day and conference called/emailed/IM'd with the Asian folks in the evenings or early mornings. Somethimes there were a lot of hours involved, but it was my call. If I could have figured out how to achieve the team performance levels, make my goals, etc., with fewer hours, I was free to do so.

My NA team (primarily low and mid-level engineers) had specific hours they were expected to be in the office, typically 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM. Few were in earlier, few stayed later. Some would occassionally participate in evening conference calls with the team in Asia. Once in a while, a project deadline involved some extra hours but frequently it was because the person procrastinated getting the work done earlier. Yet, most of them wailed, moaned and cried about the "constant, forced 60 hour weeks." In reality, while some may have actually put in a 60 hr week at some time in the past, it was hardly common. Apparently, it was just fun to talk about it!

Whenever I hear folks talking about working really long hours, I'm skeptical until I know the details.

Hours you work are sometimes like calories you consume. You don't know how many until you actually write 'em down and add 'em up. For my team, when they actually wrote hours worked down, no one was even near 60 hours. In fact, some had to stretch the facts a little in order to show 40!
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Old 08-31-2008, 11:07 AM   #78
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It seemed to me that folks in management who had much discretion as to how much and when they worked often worked longer hours than folks who had specific, mandated hours.
.
.
.
Hours you work are sometimes like calories you consume. You don't know how many until you actually write 'em down and add 'em up. For my team, when they actually wrote hours worked down, no one was even near 60 hours. In fact, some had to stretch the facts a little in order to show 40!
I agree about the discretionary schedules resulting in more hours. In the early days when I was basically on a timeclock, I did what was required. As my responsibilities and flexibility increased, so did the hours.

And I did track them, and I was overworking. I'm not proud of it. As a matter of fact, it was a tool I used to keep myself on track for ER. I had a bit of a workoholic tendency, or maybe a need to see myself as essential. But I kept myself p*ssed off over how much less I was being paid per hour than most of my coworkers. And as my career came near it's end I was cutting way back, trying to get back some of what I had given away. Sort of retired in place.

No matter what, I wasn't in a healthy place. I freely admit my own complicity in it. I'm managing my ER much better than I ever managed my w*rk life. I'm sort of the inverse of "do what you love and the money will follow". Like that other thread, Get Rich, Get Out. I wish I had thought of that.
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Old 08-31-2008, 01:47 PM   #79
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Okay, here is it Sunday afternoon, on a holiday weekend. I am checking up on the ER forum as I wait for a process that I am running for work to finish up. Once it finishes I can check for problems and then move on to the next step. So, yeah you point out that it is not every minute tied to work---but on the other hand it is taking up about 9 hours of my Sunday and my compensation for this will be ZERO.

Now fortunately I do not have to put in a lot of unpaid time these days...but it is days like these that make early retirement so appealing.
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Old 09-01-2008, 01:47 PM   #80
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I think perception can often be so far removed from reality. I had hourly people working for me that would complain if they didn't get their full lunch hour and would claim overtime and if they were 10 minutes late leaving the office would claim payment. However these were the same people who arrived 10 minutes late every day,took a 90 minute lunch every second day and the first 15 minutes of their day was spent getting a coffee and chatting to the colleagues.

I also believe that it is up to some of us to manage our work lives better. I found if you are willing to donate the extra time every company would take it. Last year, I worked late every day and most weekends. This year I decided it wasn't going to happen. My last 6 months on the job I am sure I left the office at 5.00 p.m. 99% of the time and never went in on the weekend and everything got done fine because I learnt to delegate and decide what was the most important thing to get done.
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