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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 06-24-2006, 01:27 PM   #21
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

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You are all looking at it from the bottom up.* The really important view is from the top down.* Of course.* *

A good manager is one who can intimidate his people into doing anything mangement wants done.* This one will be promoted, for sure.*

Good companies get rid of the 'bottom' 10% every year anyway, don't they Mr. Welch?* This is how it is done--chase them off.* We know they are the ones dragging us down because they don't have the drive.
This reminds me of the movie "Glengarry Glen Ross where Alec Baldwin says to his sales staff "First place is a Cadillac. Second place is a set of steak knives. Third place...is the door!" Pretty good motivation.
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 06-24-2006, 10:38 PM   #22
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

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Originally Posted by Spanky
Why 10%? why not 20% or even 80%? It would be funny the bottom 10% that were let go become top 20% of another company or become business owners who eventually take business away from GE.
This percentage.. it doesnt say what the percentage is about? I'd assume by performance right? Or something else? ROI to company? The company mail guy doesnt bring money to the company, so I guess ROI isn't the greatest, but if you fire this guy and replace with a new guy, the time it takes to train him to efficiently get the mail out to people without messing up mail would make the company bad?

I agree if the lower 10% if they were negative to the company they should be removed. But I guess it's like if you have an allstar team, even the lower 10% dont contribute as much as the rest? Even if it is a great player, they just dont contribute... So they do go on elsewhere and become stars of other companies.

agree/disagree?
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 06-24-2006, 10:44 PM   #23
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

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The rest of American industry is filled with leaders from GE's bottom 10%. Look at the guy running Home Depot... and isn't another one at 3M now if I'm not mistaken?
Not sure if the CEO of HD is a good example. He's getting alot of heat for outrageous compensation despite the fact that Lowe's is eating HD's lunch.

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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 06-25-2006, 08:59 AM   #24
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

LOL!, your link says "story not available".

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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 06-25-2006, 09:06 AM   #25
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

Hands down, no competition around here. Lowes is a way better store. The HD's around here show symptoms of poor management and "who cares?" employees. Filthy, disorganized, poorly stocked, and cant deliver an appliance. I can all but guarantee that if i'm looking for something, i'll find an empty box on the shelf or a box with completely different stuff in it.
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 06-25-2006, 11:16 AM   #26
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

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Originally Posted by Cute n Fuzzy Bun'ny
Hands down, no competition around here. Lowes is a way better store.* The HD's around here show symptoms of poor management and "who cares?" employees.* Filthy, disorganized, poorly stocked, and cant deliver an appliance.* I can all but guarantee that if i'm looking for something, i'll find an empty box on the shelf or a box with completely different stuff in it.
The situation is exactly switched in Hawaii.

Home Depot has at three stores on Oahu and several others on neighbor islands.* There's only one Lowes in the state, thank goodness, and they destroyed a perfectly good predecessor ("Eagle Hardware") to turn it into that.

BTW that's a good reason to be cautious about the Peter Lynch method of finding your investments at the local mall...
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 06-25-2006, 12:53 PM   #27
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

Goes back to the thing about good management. Its clear to me that the 'bad' home depot stores have crappy management while the "good" lowes stores have good management. When i'm in home depot, there are always 5-6 or more employees standing around yapping or trying to look busy by walking from one place to another in the store. This is while there are no checkouts open except for the self-checkout (which so far is oh-for-fifty-two in actually successfully checking me out), junk is lying around, the store is dirty, and the shelves are half stocked.
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 06-25-2006, 11:38 PM   #28
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

Lots of good advice above ... Nords really nails it.

Good managers are great at taking care of their folks, promoting when possible, helping them with new opportunities, making sure their pay is fair and competitive, keeping the work as interesting and challenging as possible.

Good managers are also good at spotting those who take advantage of the team, screw the company out of a day's wages for 2 hours of work, lie to their manager and teammates, and generally act like spoiled children. The good manager is ruthless in getting rid of such dead weight ... it is not only part of their job, it is critical if you want to retain and motivate great people. There is little more demoralizing than having staff see a lazy no-good survive and prosper in the company.
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 06-26-2006, 07:25 PM   #29
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

Sorry to be so sour. I just gave notice last Friday to the jerk I have been working for. He manages by intimidation. If I had known anything about him when I was researching the job, I would never have gone there.

It is good to be in the right place in a hot market. Today, one chap I know in another department heard and came to ask if I might consider working for his department.

Life in the tar sands.

May the froth be with you.

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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 07-03-2006, 12:19 PM   #30
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

Not to dig up a dead thread but...

Saw a good story on CNBC a couple of days ago. Home Depot came in dead last in some universities customer satisfaction survey of large retailers. Company management was put on the pulpit and blamed the problems on excessive cost cutting and hiring "the wrong people at too low a wage".

They plan to start cutting the substandard employees and hiring higher end peoples.

The invisible inflation rubber band is reaching its maximum twist...
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 07-04-2006, 11:40 AM   #31
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

I once heard someone say that a good manager was one that made the right decision over 50% fo the time. And, a great manager was one who made the right decision over 51% of the time.

I have no idea if either of these is the correct response, but this has always stuck in my mind as a wise comment.
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 07-09-2006, 09:04 PM   #32
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Re: What is a (good) manager?


My definition of a good manager is someone who is techinically informed enough to make decisions based on something other than purely monetary or political motivation, someone who has enough foresight to see potential problems and roadblocks to make sure that these problems are tackled or circumvented, someone who doesn't throw his own people in front of the bus because he over promised and understaffed in the project planning phase, and someone who is not just sucking up air with useless meetings. In short, someone who is effective and makes everyone around him effective. That is his job. Otherwise, he's just an overpaid politico.

Have I seen such managers in my career? Yes, but I can count on one hand the good ones I have seen.
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 07-09-2006, 10:17 PM   #33
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

I'll throw in another vote for being careful about thinking your boss is your friend. I don't care if you tell each other every secret and have weekly barbecues. Your boss is NOT your friend, and never can be.

Why?

Because the day it comes time to get a bad review (one that you deserve), you're going to feel betrayed. Why would your friend say such things? Why wouldn't your friend try to help you get ahead in the company? Why did you get turned down for a promotion you felt entitled to?

It's a lot of conflicting emotions. But remember that your boss is still the boss. And her job is to give you an honest assessment. Friendship blurs that line, and it compromises the work both of you must do. Be polite, but be professional. Going out for coffee and sharing stories is fine, as long as you remember there IS a line, and it's always there, for the sake of both of you.
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 07-09-2006, 10:26 PM   #34
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

Hmmm...if you got a review with unexpected bad content or expected a promotion and didnt get it and didnt know why, you had neither a friend nor a good manager.

My people knew exactly what was going to be on their reviews before I wrote it. I told them all year long what they did well and what they screwed up and what the implications of both were. I knew which ones liked treading water and which ones wanted a promo. Both knew what the parameters of expectation were to continue treading or to move up. When promo's were available, I told the ones that were going to get them that they were and why, and the ones that werent, what still needed to be done.

I did have a boss once that was a close friend, and due to some messy politics he decided to eat it and give me a bad review that I didnt deserve. In that, he was a bad manager...I'd eat it myself before I'd pass an undeserved bad review on. But he sure didnt enjoy it, and neither did I. The long and short of it is I went into a VP's office and dropped it on my desk and said "fix this hack job" (which he did), nobody wanted to work for my friend anymore after that and he sort of sank into the ground while I kept moving up the ranks.
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 07-10-2006, 08:50 PM   #35
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaPigeon
Your boss is NOT your friend, and never can be.

Why?

Because the day it comes time to get a bad review (one that you deserve), you're going to feel betrayed. Why would your friend say such things? Why wouldn't your friend try to help you get ahead in the company? Why did you get turned down for a promotion you felt entitled to?

It's a lot of conflicting emotions. But remember that your boss is still the boss. And her job is to give you an honest assessment. Friendship blurs that line, and it compromises the work both of you must do. Be polite, but be professional. Going out for coffee and sharing stories is fine, as long as you remember there IS a line, and it's always there, for the sake of both of you.
This makes sense. There will be times , when even good friends (manager or not) where you will be tested. They'll tell you the truth, you like it or not you may get angry at your friend. It takes true openness and honesty to take feedback. So it may be better not to let this happen in the first place, and not let anything be personal.

I mean, there is a line. But is it worth it? Where do we push it to? Is it blurred, because we make it, because we want it to be?

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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 07-10-2006, 11:58 PM   #36
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

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This makes sense. There will be times , when even good friends (manager or not) where you will be tested. They'll tell you the truth, you like it or not you may get angry at your friend. It takes true openness and honesty to take feedback. So it may be better not to let this happen in the first place, and not let anything be personal.

I mean, there is a line. But is it worth it? Where do we push it to? Is it blurred, because we make it, because we want it to be?

A good manager has to keep some personal space between themselves and their employees. The space is there because of the nature of the job. Getting to be too friendly with employees creates a lot of problems with objectivity and the ability to of the manager to not show favorites among employees. It is also very difficult to discipline and or fire a friend and most managers know this so they create a barrier around them to protect themselves and their objectivity.

I have had a few, very few, bosses who were also my friend. Our friendship was limited to some degree and was at arms length many times. I learned very early on to keep some distance between me and those I might have to fire or lay off someday. It is one of the more unpleasant aspects of management.
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 07-11-2006, 10:49 PM   #37
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

It seems as if the norm majority has mentioned to not be friends with a manager. This is okay. I am not really trying to push it one way or the other. It may be something I would like, but may not be the best thing.

Would such a thing be different, were this a coach? What creates the 'bad' in this? Money? Capitalism? Power?

...

Let me give you an update of my current situation. As I mentioned before, my manager was leaving to a different project... This is still yet to be undecided. She did not mention this, but we have had open (to the extent of my knowledge) communication recently. We have been speaking more and more and talking more and more.

We speak about what works between us, for me, for her, for our work. My style of work and her style of work. Pro's and cons, and what's and how's. All of these conversations ironically have to occur after hours, ie, after COB at 6pm, 7pm, 8pm etc... while we are still working. We work LONG hours. I do not know if we are bad at work, I am bad at work, or we have too much work, but that is another topic.

But all of this now... it seems like its too late. Is there even reason to continue this? Mending, making the 'best of whats left'. All of these things (open communication, working out our styles, figuring out whats expected of each other), would have been great 9 months ago. I am begining to feel abandoned for when she leaves, ALL of this work that we have done togther, well be left on my shoulders. Yes the new manager will manage, but we already have unmanagable work. It's going to be tough.

This may be where I feel that personal connectedness. It should be... manager A is leaving, ok great, manager B is here. Lets keep moving. But I may feel something more.

The work here is not the greatest and I do not enjoy it much. The only thing keeping me remotely here is my boss... now shes leaving (to a different project) ... so where does that leave me?
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 07-11-2006, 11:38 PM   #38
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

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Originally Posted by vvsonikvv

The work here is not the greatest and I do not enjoy it much. The only thing keeping me remotely here is my boss... now shes leaving (to a different project) ... so where does that leave me?
Start looking for a new job if you are so uncomfortable with your situation. This is America and you are free to move as much as you wish. Don't continue to endure a toxic situation, especially at your young age. Get your feelers out there and start looking on Monster.com and Jobs.com, etc. for possible jobs. Just don't share this information with anyone who you know or work with.

I am sorry things are not as you wish they would be but there are jobs out there that would better fit your expectations. You just have to be willing to move to find them.

Good luck.
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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 07-19-2006, 08:51 PM   #39
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

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Start looking for a new job if you are so uncomfortable with your situation. This is America and you are free to move as much as you wish. Don't continue to endure a toxic situation, especially at your young age. Get your feelers out there and start looking on Monster.com and Jobs.com, etc. for possible jobs. Just don't share this information with anyone who you know or work with.

I am sorry things are not as you wish they would be but there are jobs out there that would better fit your expectations. You just have to be willing to move to find them.

Good luck.
Here's one for ya... Either somehow the message got across (I always perform, never complain), or she's on this message board. But my manager is working with me on almost everything I ever wanted. We are going over our workload, mine and hers. Working on a job description, scope, whats in whats out. Determining what I like, what I want, what I don't like, what I don't want. She's helping me push forward and bring up to senior management for me to develop my career...

She's under lots of work pressure, tight schedules, too much work, yet she is able to spend time with me, after work , staying at the office till 8,9,10pm+. It seems like she is really trying to help and wants me to succeed and be happy... (Or I can have another POV and say shes doing it because something is in it for her in the end... ie this is one of her performance goals from senior management.)...

But I think she is genuine. She acknowledges her style is different from mine, and maybe I expect too much and that we can work so our styles can match.

However, the end point is,,, she is moving to a different project. Let's hope our 'relationship' that be a 'friend', 'mentor' or manager continues, and I am able to stay where I am not and not run off...

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Re: What is a (good) manager?
Old 07-21-2006, 10:06 PM   #40
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Re: What is a (good) manager?

Is she deciding whether to take you with her to the next job/assignment?

I have no idea, just a gut feeling.

Or, you feel something for her, or she feels something for you. From all the info. you've given I would feel very awkward in your shoes. It seems to me you've crossed the proverbial line that others have mentioned. You've become too close to each other... or she thinks that you, yourself need special handling.

I'm not trying to be mean. This stuff just happens. Or maybe I'm reading everything wrong. Darn Miller Lite.

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