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View Poll Results: What percentage of your gross yearly income do you save for retirement? "Income" = payche
0% - 2% 3 2.46%
3% - 5% 1 0.82%
6% - 8% 1 0.82%
9% - 11% 8 6.56%
12% - 14% 5 4.10%
15% - 17% 7 5.74%
18% - 20% 5 4.10%
21% - 23% 10 8.20%
24% - 26% 7 5.74%
27% - 29% 4 3.28%
30% - 32% 13 10.66%
33% - 35% 8 6.56%
36% - 38% 6 4.92%
39% - 41% 5 4.10%
42% - 44% 11 9.02%
45% - 47% 1 0.82%
48% - 50% 7 5.74%
51% - 53% 3 2.46%
54% - 56% 3 2.46%
57% - 60% 2 1.64%
More than 60% 12 9.84%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-29-2005, 06:09 PM   #81
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
JG,

* * *Many of your rants posts strike me as the repetitive pounding of a piano with a pretty small keyboard, which is even more amazing considering that you've managed to put up a greater quality quantity of posts than anyone else on E-R.org.* And when you lob those hand grenades you come across as a real PITA worthy of the image evoked by your Ayn Rand avatar.

* * *However I've recently realized that you provide a valuable service to the Young Dreamers, and indeed a cautionary example to all ERs.* You've already described your two properties, your boat fleet, and your no-stock portfolio so I don't need to run on about that.* You've presented your history as a captain of industry with a six-figure income, no doubt due to your Mensa-eligible potential and your unparalleled personnel skills.* You've mentioned many many times that you were able to turn your back on your soaring career & your profligate ways to ER with little or no planning and possibly even less money.*

* * *You've frequently admonished YDs that if you were able to ER then they should be able to follow your example without wasting all their angst (and their leisure time) on planning, saving, allocating investment assets, or budgeting.*

* * *Yet I've noticed there are other aspects of your lifestyle that haven't received quite as much publicity as the "just do it" refrain:
- Your spouse brings home an income.
- You're counting the days until Social Security spews forth its manna upon your net worth.
- You're eagerly anticipating your eligibility for a reverse mortgage despite its high origination fees.
- You appear to be constantly on the prowl for real estate "deals", apparently with (unspecified) financing schemes that would make Carleton Sheets blush in admiration.
- You seem to spend quite a bit of time arbitraging credit-card company's zero-interest offers in short-term CDs where the risks of omission (or missing a deadline) are at least as expensive as the rewards.
- You spend a considerable portion of your time tracking CD rates.
- You eschew online banks & credit-union CDs for their lack of FDIC insurance, despite their equivalent insurance from NCUA (another govt-backed entity).
- You're enamored of bonds yielding 8% or more from companies whose future appears grim, if indeed they have a future, while TIPS index funds and many stock index funds provide equivalent returns with much less volatility & survivability risk.
- You spend even more time than me on dumpster-diving and on picking up discarded items with the potential to be repaired & resold.* (Presumably none of them are scanners.)
- You have bare-bones health insurance and are even more eagerly anticipating Medicare than SS.
- You repeatedly advocate a low-spending minimalist lifestyle that would make Amy Dacyczyn green with envy.
- Your LTC insurance policy appears to involve firearms.

* * *Despite your seemingly blissful fishing trip down the river of life, you could be accused of spending far more time obsessing working on your finances than those whom you abjure for their excessive planning.* Your perpetual focus on obtaining more money (and on reducing your expenses) seems to occupy quite a bit more of your high-IQ intellect (and ER "leisure" time) than any other two posters on the board combined.* In fact, from reading your posts it could be postulated that your margin of financial safety is razor-thin.* But, hey, with your intellect you must have made the ER plunge in anticipation (in more ways than one) of that ride.

* * *So I think you're providing a valuable service to those YDs who hear your exhortations and wonder if they're ready to emulate your example.* When they look at how you're spending your time and your mental energy, and the austere schemes that you feel obligated to pursue well into your 60s, I think it inspires them to waste devote even more of their valuable time to planning, saving, investing, and budgeting.* When I'm tempted to take on some arbitrage scheme with a profit potential below the equivalent of minimum wage, you're in my thoughts.* I'm sure the rest of the board could cite many times in our financial lives when one of your examples comes to mind.* In your own inimitable (hopefully) way, you're making sure that all of us ER with enough resources to choose the lifestyle that we have want to live.* Thank you for living the way you do on our behalf!
Hey! I think this is a record for a fellow poster diagnosing my ER/ideas/politics/
posts/investments/advice/opinions/etc etc..................

I am humbled by this, and just think...........it's from Nords. Man oh man,
what an honor! Unfortunately, it is cocktail hour here and so I can not
reply and do it justice. However, I will say that everything I have posted
(a lot by any measure) is as true as I could make it, unless I was just
gigging you folks or screwing around. Hopefully I have provided an
example, even if it turns out to be an ER lifestyle y'all do not care to follow.
It's okay with me.

I may have more on this later (or maybe not).

JG
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-29-2005, 06:19 PM   #82
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat
As far as JG's ER strategy goes I say to each his/her own (if it actually works).*
"As long as it works." That is a real mouthful. I think we can allow that one who was formerly a "Captain of Industry" is now happily employed rehabbing and selling found junk. Hey, we probably have never met anyone personally who would fit this description, but I am sure that weirder things have happened.

Still, it's worthwhile examining the words Mr. X uses to describe his situation, and then ask one's self, "Would this make me happy, comfortable, fulfilled, relaxed?"

Looking briefly at the matter of health care and health insurance, X reports that they are covered by "a Medicare Supplement", with no underlying Medicare. Hmm? Since Medicare Supplements (Medigap) are priced as secondary insurance, I wonder if they could even be sold to someone with no Medicare. In any case, they wouldn't be much help if one tried to make a claim.

I feel compassion for anyone who cannot afford or qualify for health insurance. I believe it is a shameful break in the free market that works pretty well elsewhere. I would feel this way toward X, if it were not that he constantly brags, minimizes the risk that his "creativity and stupendous intelligence" have created for him both him and his wife, and appears quite willing to mislead any newcomer who hasn't hung around here long enough to get the drift of things.

Can you imagine how this crap would go over in a golf foursome, a poker game, or any conceivable face to face encounter?

Ha

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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-29-2005, 07:06 PM   #83
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
"As long as it works." That is a real mouthful. I think we can allow that one who was formerly a "Captain of Industry" is now happily employed rehabbing and selling found junk. Hey, we probably have never met anyone personally who would fit this description, but I am sure that weirder things have happened.

Still, it's worthwhile examining the words Mr. X uses to describe his situation, and then ask one's self, "Would this make me happy, comfortable, fulfilled, relaxed?"

Looking briefly at the matter of health care and health insurance, X reports that they are covered by "a Medicare Supplement", with no underlying Medicare. Hmm? Since Medicare Supplements (Medigap) are priced as secondary insurance, I wonder if they could even be sold to someone with no Medicare. In any case, they wouldn't be much help if one tried to make a claim.

I feel compassion for anyone who cannot afford or qualify for health insurance. I believe it is a shameful break in the free market that works pretty well elsewhere. I would feel this way toward X, if it were not that he constantly brags, minimizes the risk that his "creativity and stupendous intelligence" have created for him both him and his wife, and appears quite willing to mislead any newcomer who hasn't hung around here long enough to get the drift of things.

Can you imagine how this crap would go over in a golf foursome, a poker game, or any conceivable face to face encounter?

Ha

This may be the most silly post I have seen yet, and I have seen a lot.

JG
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-29-2005, 07:11 PM   #84
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

nords' post #77 reads to me like a bit of Freakonomics (though I haven't read the book yet).
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-29-2005, 08:04 PM   #85
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Don't know about that. It was time someone added up all the JG stuff to put it in one convenient location for people to look at before anyone takes any specific piece seriously. Thank you, Nords, for your time and effort.
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-29-2005, 08:34 PM   #86
 
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

I think that JG's posts are interesting (except for the drivel about guns and gummit). His recent post about health care was in response to my direct question. I understood exactly what he meant about a Medicare-supplement-like policy, which is to say a form of limited coverage. Sometimes it's good to hear different approaches and other ideas . . .

HH
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-29-2005, 11:58 PM   #87
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
JG,
* * *Many of your rants posts strike me as the repetitive pounding of a piano with a pretty small keyboard, which is even more amazing considering that you've managed to put up a greater quality quantity of posts than anyone else on E-R.org.*
You forgot the best post of all about saving for retirement.* It's so absurd that it's funny.* He saved nothing before or after "retirement," yet he has money saved for retirement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
Pre retirement, -0-
Post retirement, -0-

Never had a structured savings plan in my lifetime, unless you count the brief period when I was in a 401K.

JG
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 01:27 AM   #88
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
JG,

* * *Many of your rants posts strike me as the repetitive pounding of a piano with a pretty small keyboard, which is even more amazing considering that you've managed to put up a greater quality quantity of posts than anyone else on E-R.org.* And when you lob those hand grenades you come across as a real PITA worthy of the image evoked by your Ayn Rand avatar.

* * *However I've recently realized that you provide a valuable service to the Young Dreamers, and indeed a cautionary example to all ERs.* You've already described your two properties, your boat fleet, and your no-stock portfolio so I don't need to run on about that.* You've presented your history as a captain of industry with a six-figure income, no doubt due to your Mensa-eligible potential and your unparalleled personnel skills.* You've mentioned many many times that you were able to turn your back on your soaring career & your profligate ways to ER with little or no planning and possibly even less money.*

* * *You've frequently admonished YDs that if you were able to ER then they should be able to follow your example without wasting all their angst (and their leisure time) on planning, saving, allocating investment assets, or budgeting.*

* * *Yet I've noticed there are other aspects of your lifestyle that haven't received quite as much publicity as the "just do it" refrain:
- Your spouse brings home an income.
- You're counting the days until Social Security spews forth its manna upon your net worth.
- You're eagerly anticipating your eligibility for a reverse mortgage despite its high origination fees.
- You appear to be constantly on the prowl for real estate "deals", apparently with (unspecified) financing schemes that would make Carleton Sheets blush in admiration.
- You seem to spend quite a bit of time arbitraging credit-card company's zero-interest offers in short-term CDs where the risks of omission (or missing a deadline) are at least as expensive as the rewards.
- You spend a considerable portion of your time tracking CD rates.
- You eschew online banks & credit-union CDs for their lack of FDIC insurance, despite their equivalent insurance from NCUA (another govt-backed entity).
- You're enamored of bonds yielding 8% or more from companies whose future appears grim, if indeed they have a future, while TIPS index funds and many stock index funds provide equivalent returns with much less volatility & survivability risk.
- You spend even more time than me on dumpster-diving and on picking up discarded items with the potential to be repaired & resold.* (Presumably none of them are scanners.)
- You have bare-bones health insurance and are even more eagerly anticipating Medicare than SS.
- You repeatedly advocate a low-spending minimalist lifestyle that would make Amy Dacyczyn green with envy.
- Your LTC insurance policy appears to involve firearms.

* * *Despite your seemingly blissful fishing trip down the river of life, you could be accused of spending far more time obsessing working on your finances than those whom you abjure for their excessive planning.* Your perpetual focus on obtaining more money (and on reducing your expenses) seems to occupy quite a bit more of your high-IQ intellect (and ER "leisure" time) than any other two posters on the board combined.* In fact, from reading your posts it could be postulated that your margin of financial safety is razor-thin.* But, hey, with your intellect you must have made the ER plunge in anticipation (in more ways than one) of that ride.

* * *So I think you're providing a valuable service to those YDs who hear your exhortations and wonder if they're ready to emulate your example.* When they look at how you're spending your time and your mental energy, and the austere schemes that you feel obligated to pursue well into your 60s, I think it inspires them to waste devote even more of their valuable time to planning, saving, investing, and budgeting.* When I'm tempted to take on some arbitrage scheme with a profit potential below the equivalent of minimum wage, you're in my thoughts.* I'm sure the rest of the board could cite many times in our financial lives when one of your examples comes to mind.* In your own inimitable (hopefully) way, you're making sure that all of us ER with enough resources to choose the lifestyle that we have want to live.* Thank you for living the way you do on our behalf!
I don't know what got into you, Nords, but thanks.

JG is a lot like *****. If you are not familiar with the whole story, you wonder why his posts bother some of the other posters. But when the total story is spelled out, it is not credible. In fact, it is very misleading.

I imagine that both ***** and JG believe they are being totally honest. They both think that they are surperior to the rest of the board. They both belive their advice is valuable when, in fact, it is potentially very dangerous. . .

I am bothered by many of JG's posts -- not because there is any danger that they may lead me astray, but because new readers may not realize that he is full of sh## and might actually follow his advice.
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 01:34 AM   #89
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Why is everybody ganging up on JG? He's a character. We all are. Is there anybody here who isn't a bit eccentric (and completely self-consistent)? This is an internet forum, gang. None of the advice here is guaranteed to be worth more than you pay for it. But the entertainment is priceless.
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 01:44 AM   #90
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ((^+^)) SG
I don't know what got into you, Nords, but thanks.
Every once in a while I read a post and the camel's back breaks. Maybe this time it was the overload from the scanner trash talk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ((^+^)) SG
JG is a lot like *****. If you are not familiar with the whole story, you wonder why his posts bother some of the other posters. But when the total story is spelled out, it is not credible. In fact, it is very misleading.
I imagine that both ***** and JG believe they are being totally honest. They both think that they are surperior to the rest of the board. They both belive their advice is valuable when, in fact, it is potentially very dangerous. . .
I am bothered by many of JG's posts -- not because there is any danger that they may lead me astray, but because new readers may not realize that he is full of sh## and might actually follow his advice.
I was trying to avoid that ***** comparison but it certainly comes to mind. Without condoning Greaney's behavior, I can understand why he feels that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-Jarhead
Nords: What part of "world class bull-s-------" don't you understand?
Still the best summary of the situation...
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 01:14 AM   #91
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Why is JG being taken to the woodshed?
He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone, I say to you.
By the way Nords when you use ***** - what does it mean?
And also why do men have nipples?
Lets kiss and make up
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 04:55 AM   #92
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Nords and SG
You're taking this board much to seriously.
Uncledrz
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 09:41 AM   #93
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncledrz
Nords and SG
You're taking this board much to seriously.
Uncledrz
I don't take anything on this board very seriously. Didn't you notice the requisite smiley faces with my posts.

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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 09:57 AM   #94
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
Why is JG being taken to the woodshed? He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone, I say to you.
I'm trying to place JG's claims & advice in context. I think that they're misleading or even dangerous when taken out of context. But that's just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
By the way Nords when you use ***** - what does it mean?
How soon we forget. That's another reason for educating newer users on the cumulative accomplishments of some of the posters that we older users have been dealing with.

When he finally banned h-o-c-u-s, Dory (or BMJ?) set the board to convert that text string (without the hyphens) into "*****". You can read more about the subject in the archives or on Greaney's board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
I enjoy JG's posts, lot more entertaining than some of the posts by the people that make bad words towards JG.
We'll have to check your attitude on this comment a year from now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTien
And also why do men have nipples?
I asked my spouse, and she said that it's for the same reason that women put up with men-- for their entertainment value!
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 10:08 AM   #95
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Danger: Return to topic... *

My answer was 23%: 18% 401k + 3% "make-up + some to Vanguard and some extra on the mort. Did not include the 6% match.

I live fairly comfortably on what's left, although I may drop it some starting next year to fund a Roth, and to perform some repair/update/upgrade on mi casa.

Don't have the exact number, but my budget is about $25k/yr...

Could be less if I got rid of the landline and assoc. long-distance, went back to dial-up, subscribed only to basic cable, wasn't paying my son's tuition and auto insurance...
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 10:22 AM   #96
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Have Funds, Will Retire
went back to dial-up
Now THAT's crossing the line from frugality to deprivation...
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 02:15 PM   #97
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
Why is everybody ganging up on JG?* *He's a character.* *We all are.* *Is there anybody here who isn't a bit eccentric (and completely self-consistent)?* * This is an internet forum, gang.* *None of the advice here is guaranteed to be worth more than you pay for it.* * But the entertainment is priceless.*
Well-put.*

I think we should try to this forum as what it is: a gathering of anonymous people who want to (1) spout off, (2) offer unsolicited advice, (3) get a lot of unreliable advice from other anonymous people, and (4) avoid doing other more important things in the real world, such as (A) going for a walk, (B) smelling the roses, (C) reading a good book, (D) petting a dog, (E) saying sweet nothings to a spouse, (F) etc., etc., etc.*

Sure, there's some value in contributing to our beloved ER Forum, but is there really enough to justify posting at a rate of 4.5 per day (Nords) or over 6 per day (Mr. Galt)?
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 02:26 PM   #98
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Now THAT's crossing the line from frugality to deprivation...
Agreed... giving up surfing for porn broadband would suck big time!!

Though my BB connection, and digital hi-def cable package runs about $130mo. Luckily, Verizon is laying fiber as we speak, so maybe a little good ol' competition will get those prices down.
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 03:06 PM   #99
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Tortfeasor
Well-put.

I think we should try to this forum as what it is: a gathering of anonymous people who want to (1) spout off, (2) offer unsolicited advice, (3) get a lot of unreliable advice from other anonymous people, and (4) avoid doing other more important things in the real world, such as (A) going for a walk, (B) smelling the roses, (C) reading a good book, (D) petting a dog, (E) saying sweet nothings to a spouse, (F) etc., etc., etc.

Sure, there's some value in contributing to our beloved ER Forum, but is there really enough to justify posting at a rate of 4.5 per day (Nords) or over 6 per day (Mr. Galt)?
Let's not get too deep here, the forum (for some of us) is just another hobby or club. Since I started posting here the time it takes up in my life would normally be spent watching a sitcom or something equally as brainless. I don't lose any sleep over that trade off.

As far as "ganging up" on JG, he may be a lot of things, but thin skinned is not one of them. JG says a lot, and a lot of time it's.....inconsistent with previous statems or not revealing the whole truth. Many times JG will tell a newbie "just retire, sound off like you got a pair! I did! I'm the man!" without revealing the fact his wife still works to bring home the bacon and provide health care. JG is free to say whatever he wants, free country and all. And others should be allowed to call him on the more bandini-like statements. What I see happening here on this thread is a bunch of people simply saying, "yeah, I smelled that too, now that you mention it!". Nobody is saying JG isn't a good guy.

Oh yeah, DanTien, men have nipples because all embryos begin developing as females, by the time the Y chromosome kicks in and begins expressing male hormones, the nipples have already formed.

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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?
Old 10-30-2005, 03:32 PM   #100
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Re: What percentage of your gross income do you save?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
As far as "ganging up" on JG, he may be a lot of things, but thin skinned is not one of them.
I'm sure even JG is human. And this looks like it might have been his swan song:

last post?
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