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Old 08-16-2013, 09:01 AM   #81
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Of course our polls here are for our own entertainment and arguments and have all the validity of nothing .
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:24 PM   #82
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I just want to know how people have saved at 50, 55, 60. This is not a theoretical question, and has nothing to do with people's expenses. It's a simple question - how much did you have at 50, 55, 60 ... I have no interest knowing your expenses at all. The fact that you have savings at 50, 55, and 60 means you are spending less than you are earning - that's self-explanatory. That's why expenses are of no interest to me.
You may want to check out another website that people report their networth on -- who knows how "real" it is, but it may partially satisfy your financial voyeurism needs!

https://www.networthiq.com/
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:37 PM   #83
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So I will leave it at that. All I can say is that expenses is NOT a concern for me at all - but savings is. Now I will leave it to your imagination why I'm saying that. If you can figure it out, great for you. If you still insist it is pointless, you're still thinking inside your box.
I do insist that it's pointless... because it is.

If you're NOT concerned with expenses at all, well, good luck to you. The only thing I can think of as to why you would ask this question when you aren't concerned with your expenses is that you think you're pretty well off and want to compare portfolio size.

... which is pointless.
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:02 PM   #84
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I think if you subtract cola pensions from your expected burn rate and divide that into your savings, that would be a pretty good question to get answered. Then you have other fine-tuning like, do you somehow cola-ize your non-cola streams, and what if you're waiting for a cola stream (SS) and do you include your home equity in the savings number, is your expected burn rate adjusted by spending more (health costs) or less (spending more time in the rocking chair) as you get up there in age. It can go on forever, which is why this board is so much fun!
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:09 PM   #85
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At 50 I had roughly 300k in my 401K, by 55 it had doubled, I hope that by the time I'm 60 It will double again.
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Old 08-16-2013, 03:16 PM   #86
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Isn't this a forum where people ask questions? I am new here and you are telling me I'm nosy? Of course there is a purpose to such question. People ask these question to benchmark themselves if they have saved enough.

And YES - how much you save at 50, 55, 60 is big retirement issue at large. So I disagree with you on all counts. If you don't have anything useful to say to a new user, then please don't.
Those replies are useful.

The point is - context matters. Some people will have a COLA pension that covers their expenses. Outside of an emergency fund, they don't need any savings at all.

Maybe there is some obtuse reason for the question, like "What if the govt starts a wealth tax on anything over $X, and all they count is 'savings'?"

But w/o sharing that context, why should anyone offer info? It's like asking if people are righty or lefty. What does it matter?

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Old 08-16-2013, 03:42 PM   #87
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It may be useless to you, but not to me. Everyone's different and you don't seem to understand my point of view. "I'm benchmarking savings, not expenses"...

All I can say is that expenses is NOT a concern for me at all - but savings is...
When I found this forum, I was also a bit curious to see where my standing was. Then, as I read people's posts, I realized that there was quite a range of income, net worth, and expenses. Some people were able to retire on a small stash because they were frugal. Some retirees spent more because they could afford to. The expenses often trail incomes, because we are a bunch of LBYM'ers here. I used to think I was frugal, but boy, I often appeared as a spendthrift here.

The absolute savings rate in dollar amount varied with the individual circumstances too. Some posters have candidly shown their income in the past, and as expected, it was usually around $80K for one with a college degree. Though that was higher than the national average income, I am sure that would not allow one to save as much as, either in dollar amounts as well as in percentage of gross income, a professional couple who were in a high-demand field and could get compensation of $150K+ each. And then, there are posters who were CEO or CFO in their corporation. Those are the ones showing up as outliers in polls here.

So, in order to really see to measure your progress against others, you would need to compare to someone in the same situation. And you would not get that info, unless a poster shows everything about himself, meaning his salary, his age, marital status, spouse's income, number of children, and then finally the size of his stash.

The only thing one can get about posters' net worth here is in the past polls that were linked in earlier. You will not get more info than that.

In the past, posters also talked about their savings rate as a percentage of their income. Even that was not really meaningful, because a couple earning $400K a year together might be able to save 50% of gross if they were frugal, but a single earner in a family earning $80K would not be able to do that. And people with high income do not feel like sharing the info, because they would look boastful.

In short, the info you seek is not readily available as you want. Only by hanging around here a while, you may then develop a feel. But by that time, you may not care that much about anyone else's situation, and only think about your own, such as what would be your WR when you pull the plug. Hence, we tend to use WR or the number of annual expenses as yardsticks.

During past market routs, I often jokingly lamented that I lost 3 months of living expenses in x numbers of trading days. People here readily related to that.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:26 PM   #88
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Numbers only work in context. My "numbers" would be from 1989 to 1999, so I doubt that they would help today. At the same time, even with the variables included in FIRECALC history, a finite amount would be affected greatly by hyperinflation.

The second part of meaningful planning is whether "success" is to be measured by maintaining net worth ad infinitum, or dying broke...

If DW (Dear Wife) and I had based our decision on what others had saved, we'd still be working, instead of having enjoyed nearly a quarter century of being retired.

The forum is often as much about philosophy and a satisfying life, as it is about money.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:54 PM   #89
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No need to qualify your exalted status. I'm in awe of any guy who can swing a deal to have their DW employed while they retire early!
That'll be my situation at the end of this year!
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:42 AM   #90
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A bit past age 50, (I've got a <2 years tell 55) my net worth stood at $3,041,080.25 approximately, since I didn't count the change in my seat cushions or those other containers.

Now that was below my net worth at age 39/40 when I retired but the crash of 2000 hadn't happened yet nor the crash of 2008/2009.
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Old 08-17-2013, 07:50 AM   #91
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You can see by my join date and number of posts that I have been here a few years now but have not posted much. Early years I was reading everything on the forum and most of the time later on I would ask for guidance. That has served me well so that after an enjoyable lifestyle, LBYM, being frugal (not necessarily cheap), investing all that I could in reasonable/conservative mutual funds and stocks, we are now able to live better at retirement with 50x what we need after SS and small pensions thanks to my planning, my wife, some luck, and the folks here. That is the best I can do.

Investing and the like is not my area of expertise so the folks here have been very helpful. I retired from a position as full professor in the Natural Sciences although worked for a decade as a Chemical Engineer. I never felt comfortable being asked about my salary much less my net worth. In many circles that would be considered a rude question. I know there is some anonimity here but I wouldn't even discuss my net worth with my siblings much less any one else. Only my wife knows for sure.

You have enough information at this forum and the links that are recommended to keep you busy developing you plan that you will be very busy for at least a year reading and digesting the information.

Old Chines proverb reads something like: "The teacher opens the door but the student has to pass through by themselves."

Cheers!
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Old 08-17-2013, 08:16 AM   #92
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Isn't this a forum where people ask questions? I am new here and you are telling me I'm nosy? Of course there is a purpose to such question. People ask these question to benchmark themselves if they have saved enough.
And YES - how much you save at 50, 55, 60 is big retirement issue at large. So I disagree with you on all counts. If you don't have anything useful to say to a new user, then please don't.

Welcome to the forum. I'm edging up on 50 in a couple of years. I haved saved quite a bit of money, it's been a long road. I guess on a personal note, the amount does not matter , I use a calculator that figures how long our savings will last. I never put in more than a two percent return. When my money will last for over 30 years at appx. 1.5 t times my yearly budget ( that's how I future inflation, unexpected bills , etc) . Then I expect I should be ok. With my conservative nature I will need much more than the average bear, better than losing sleep over the stock market in my opinion. Good luck
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Old 08-17-2013, 07:35 PM   #93
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No need to take it the wrong way... All I am saying is that there are more than 1,000,000 posts on this website and it will be easier to for you to use key words and filter words to find an answer to your question. My answer has nothing to do with your title or quals.

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It may be useless to you, but not to me. Everyone's different and you don't seem to understand my point of view. "I'm benchmarking savings, not expenses". Sure, I understand the relationship of expenses vs savings. I understand that if you need $30K a year to survive, you need $900K (or 30X expenses) to survive for 30 years. That's the point of view most of you are coming from. I understand your point of view. But you don't seem to understand mine. I've been to a lot of forum that think people are stupid for asking questions and that their questions are pointless. I'm a Professor with a PhD degree and every day my students ask me some questions which I initially think is pointless, but it is not. They see things from an entirely different perspective. I have also been a Consultant and I see things that VP and Directors don't because they've been too long inside their company - they all think inside the box. They don't have fresh minds. You guys only see what you've been discussing in this forum for so long, that when someone new from the outside comes in - you don't see outside the box. So I will leave it at that. All I can say is that expenses is NOT a concern for me at all - but savings is. Now I will leave it to your imagination why I'm saying that. If you can figure it out, great for you. If you still insist it is pointless, you're still thinking inside your box.
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Old 08-18-2013, 06:28 PM   #94
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If OP thinks forum members need to think outside their box, I wish he would explain why his thinking is so out-of-box. He appears as unwilling to share his reasons for asking, as we are to share our NW out of context.

Professors usually take more interest than this in educating their audiences; in my experience anyway, and I have known a few professors (BA, two MS's).

A.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:42 PM   #95
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Hi. New here. I'm planning to retire early. Just wanted to see how much people saved at age 50, 55, 60 ... Thanks.
I replied to this thread earlier indicating I was not willing to share concrete numbers and questioning the validity of the gathering the data without some context. Imagine my surprise when nearly simultaneously I received a very similar question from former co-workers.

So I've decided to answer the question again in a different manner. My "data" begins at age 25 and continues at 5-year increments until age 50. I won't be 55 until 2014.

age 25 - DW and I had amassed a paltry 0.20 X our annual gross salary. Our expenses are approximately 90% of our gross salary. So we're saving 10% of our gross. The rest goes to taxes, house payment, car payment, vacation, food, utilities, etc.

age 30 - our accumulated investments were 0.60 X our annaul gross salary. Expenses remain approximately 90% of our gross salary.

age 35 - we finally had more money invested than we made in a year - 1.1 X our annual gross salary. Our expenses are approximately 80% of our gross salary.

age 40 - the number is growing nicely at this point - we have 2.6 X our annual gross salary in our investment accounts. Our expenses are approximately 60% of our gross salary.

age 45 - compounding is working - our investments total 3.8 X our annual gross salary. Annual expenses are approximately 60% of our gross salary.

age 50 - our total investments reach 10 X our annual gross salary. Our expenses are approximately 50% of our gross salary. Ssssweeeet!

I think this type of reporting might be useful to a wide variety of people. I realize it has limitations but it provides a relative guide/comparison rather than simply throw out a number. The format is a little more generic and allows some wiggle room for variations in salary.

I know there are some similar posts earlier in this thread. Anyone else out want to post their multiples?

To the OP.... what do you think? Or, is this still to much inside the box?
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:25 PM   #96
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I do not know about "thinking outside the box" as much as I "live outside the box"!

I retired at 33 (two months shy of 34) with about 3 million (combined with my ex wife) by 50 I was at "0", 55 I was at "0" and when I turn 60 (in a few months)I will still be at "0". Fortunately my current wife is only 30 and has substantial assets and income so I do not really think in terms of my net worth.

I will probably get a substantial income stream in a few years (I know that does not count) and at some future point in time I will probably receive a few million as well and will have to figure out how to get back to zero at that point without hurting anybodies feelings.
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Old 08-24-2013, 07:15 AM   #97
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I think Net worth is not really a good measure unless one rents everything and puts that into annual expenses.

I am 60 and DW is 55, DW still works so we have decent affordable healthcare. We have cash and cash like reserves that total to about 50x annual expenses. From a NW perspective we have 52x assuming an increase for home rental, car lease etc. So I think it is best NOT to include your accommodation and transportation in this equation.

If the calculation is to be based on SALARY when FIRED (It is Zero After). It is only 20x. But We do not spend nearly what we were earning while I was working. DW's income covers all expenses other than recreation and unexpected emergencies.
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Old 08-24-2013, 07:27 AM   #98
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I rent my accommodation, and don't own a car. Wondering whether I should include the value of my bicycle in my NW? I got for $100 from Craigslist, though I did spend $25 on a new saddle, and just sunk $75 into it for a new rear wheel including parts and labor.

I'm tellin' ya - these assets that depreciate sure are a drag on the portfolio
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:02 AM   #99
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I don't think the OP was referring to net worth. The OP asked how much a person saved at various ages. You could argue that saving and investing are two different things. Regardless, I don't think NW is what the OP had in mind. Your house and car won't pay you dividends and capital gains to pay your bills. Net worth was not included in my ratios posted above.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:38 AM   #100
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I don't think the OP was referring to net worth. ... .
The OP has not been back for a while:

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I fear we will never learn just what we are missing with our limited 'in-the-box' thinking. How will we ever sleep at night?

It's hard to imaging how a savings number, without the context of expected spend, SS and pensions can be meaningful, and how having a PhD could change that.

I'm reminded of that commercial a few years back, they flash all these scenes of people giving seminars and motivational talks and urging everyone the 'think outside the box' - and then they flash to a scene of the manager of the shipping department of a large company and they say "But your job is the box."

This guy was really condescending. Oh, don't worry, your small minds can't understand what an advanced person like me can see, just answer the question you little soldiers, and I'll do the hard thinking.

-ERD50
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