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Old 03-24-2016, 03:41 PM   #21
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During my career I attended and presented at many conferences and workshops, most of them initially paid for by me or my corporation. Professional development was required to maintain my certification and I certainly benefited. As my professional profile increased, I was frequently invited to be the keynote speaker and to lead workshops. At this point, the organization that I worked for was benefiting a great deal from my profile, so I decided that they were no longer going to get a free lunch. From then on, my corporation, which was funding my participation, would be the brand that was credited on the program and on my name tag. Well, lo and behold, funding began to appear! Towards the end of my career, I did not go anywhere unless it was funded, either by my own organization, or the one putting on the event. And I started to earn small honorariums.

The bottom line is that your company will only pay for something that is of value to the company.
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Old 03-24-2016, 05:27 PM   #22
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If it was a conference or training that really appealed to me I would.
I did it too. I wanted very much to learn more about a then-new field, computer forensics and computer crime. The department's training budget for the year was exhausted so the training request for the two-week class was denied, which I expected. I then immediately wrote back and said I'd pay the $750 tuition (this ~1994) if they would give me the two weeks of administrative leave and use of the employer's car to travel to/from the conference across the river in another state, about a 40-minute drive.

This request was approved since it wouldn't cost anything that wasn't already in their budget.

The scheme plan worked! It took two years of overcoming government bureaucracy, but I took a page out of "What Color is Your Parachute?" and got my employer to create the job I wanted from scratch, and gee, guess who was the most qualified in the entire Department? This enabled me to work several more years at a job that I truly enjoyed and I stayed longer than I had planned because I liked the work so much, and at the same time significantly improving my retirement income.

So sometimes it is in one's own best interest to foot the bill for some training. That said, one of the major reasons I did finally retire was because it was getting increasingly difficult to get approval for training/equipment/software for a fast-moving field and I was getting frustrated with the bureaucracy. The last computer systems we bought had several unasked-for upgrades because the company no longer made the one we ordered. That was a clue it was time to go if I could. I could, and did.
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Old 03-24-2016, 06:39 PM   #23
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I am interested in security and the conference has to do with IT security. Its related to my trade, but not related to the business line.
It sounds like you're in IT. I'm having a hard time with any IT job not needing a solid background in security in today's environment.
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Old 03-24-2016, 06:53 PM   #24
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Short sighted on management's part to not allow you to go and pay for it. Short money.

As an aside, I had racked up 4 million miles on first class business travel. A new manager came on board as I was heading off to a conference in Japan. He challenged me with: "If you were paying that $9K for that trip with your own money would you still go?".
I replied: "If I owned a $600 Million business (which we were) I would; and I'd fly private"

I went.
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Old 03-24-2016, 07:15 PM   #25
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Interesting stuff...
Anyone here wanna give a guess as to what a $2000 training trip might cost a company, after the tax benefit?

Yes, depends, but assuming a moderately profitable corporation.
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Old 03-24-2016, 07:27 PM   #26
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As a public school teacher I paid for many training classes out of my own pocket. Nothing new here.
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Old 03-24-2016, 07:41 PM   #27
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Interesting stuff...
Anyone here wanna give a guess as to what a $2000 training trip might cost a company, after the tax benefit?

Yes, depends, but assuming a moderately profitable corporation.
I'll guess... $2,000 * (1-35%)= $1,300... less if state tax applies.
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Old 03-24-2016, 07:49 PM   #28
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I grudgingly attended a conference in San Diego after being directed to do so a few years ago. It was a dual role of representing the company for part of one day and then "networking" for three days with a day before and day after for travel. I spent about three hours actually working and most of the other days/nights partying. All told it was well over $8,000 spent and a complete waste of time work wise. No way would I ever pay out of pocket for that.
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Old 03-24-2016, 08:27 PM   #29
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Not only no, but hell no...
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:11 AM   #30
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I did some trainings on my own dime and negotiated with employer to use company car + count time as work, when I felt that the training would provide high benefit to me, improve my network or made me more marketable if ever in need of another employer.
It worked out well.
Conferences I see with mixed feelings. It might increase my visibility (but not to relevant people?), but usually the workshops are too short to be effective. They might just be sales pitch for more and costly trainings.
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Old 03-25-2016, 10:31 AM   #31
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I wouldn't personally pay for a work trip. If the corp benefits from the trip, then it should pay for it.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:33 AM   #32
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The title of this thread is misleading since the trip OP is describing is NOT a "work trip."


To make it a "work trip," OP would need to make a proposal to management showing the benefits of his newly acquired knowledge to the company accompanied by a proposal of a project he would implement and what improvements in security and costs it would yield. Goals should be well defined and measurable. Success of the project would be a key factor in OP's performance review and merit raise.


Otherwise, rather than a work trip, it's just a "boondoggle."


The company would be nuts to pay for this or even give OP paid time off to attend.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:57 AM   #33
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The title of this thread is misleading since the trip OP is describing is NOT a "work trip."

To make it a "work trip," OP would need to make a proposal to management showing the benefits of his newly acquired knowledge to the company accompanied by a proposal of a project he would implement and what improvements in security and costs it would yield. Goals should be well defined and quantatively measurable. Success of the project would be a key factor in OP's performance review and merit raise.

Otherwise, rather than a work trip, it's just a "boondoggle."

The company would be nuts to pay for this or even give OP paid time off to attend.
I agree and think there may be some communication gap between the company and the OP about what is expected on a work trip.

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if I had to actually go on a work trip, I would at least try to see some sights as well.

I have never actually been required to go on a work trip
Sight-seeing? Perhaps that confirms what youbet is saying. I am thinking that if you had ever "actually been required to go on a work trip", you might learn more about what they entail, and what would be required of you, and what these trips really ARE.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:06 PM   #34
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if I had to actually go on a work trip, I would at least try to see some sights as well.
I have never actually been required to go on a work trip



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Sight-seeing? Perhaps that confirms what youbet is saying. I am thinking that if you had ever "actually been required to go on a work trip", you might learn more about what they entail, and what would be required of you, and what these trips really ARE.
Yeah really ! Some people think that traveling on business is a vacation. After a few of those trips they change their mind.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:30 PM   #35
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Good call on the tax deduction. I would actually consider myself mad for paying for this myself. Now, let's not be fooled, if I had to actually go on a work trip, I would at least try to see some sights as well.

I have never actually been required to go on a work trip, but I did get a trip to Hawaii paid for from a govt contracting gig to obtain a certification.
I traveled for w*rk sometimes gone for a month or more. I saw the insides of some pretty neat data centers all over the world. Spent a fair amount of time in Boston, lot of data centers there, someone told me there's an ocean around there too.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:37 PM   #36
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I once spent a week in Orlando and saw the airport, the hotel and the conference center.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:44 PM   #37
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I traveled for w*rk sometimes gone for a month or more. I saw the insides of some pretty neat data centers all over the world. Spent a fair amount of time in Boston, lot of data centers there, someone told me there's an ocean around there too.
I had that experience too, although it was Orlando, FL. In this case it was the all-volunteer teaching/coaching staff for a nonprofit group teaching computer forensics to law enforcement officers. It turned out that for fourteen years running including two after retirement, I was in Orlando for two weeks every spring. On one trip I was so busy that on the way home I realized that in two weeks I had never left the hotel building where the classes took place!

Most times were better though - spouses & SOs would fly down for the weekend and we'd go out and party, see Disney World, and the like.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:55 PM   #38
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I have traveled some with my job and consider it a perk. If it is a nice place, I stay the weekend on my own dime. As a result, I've been to most parts of the country. Loved Monterey and saw quite a bit of the ocean. Of course there are also the work trips to the middle of nowhere and the ones with 12 hour days. The last two times I went to Vegas, I was so tired at the end of each day that I didn't make it to any of the casinos or nice restaurants and just flew home on Friday.

If I were the OP, I'd try to negotiate for my employer to pay for part of the trip and credit my attendance as work time. Then claim the rest on my taxes. Like Hermit, I can't see how IT security training would not be of any benefit to the company even if not directly related to the project.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:57 PM   #39
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Most times were better though - spouses & SOs would fly down for the weekend and we'd go out and party, see Disney World, and the like.
You were lucky that you didn't work for my agency - - you never would have traveled for work again! Seriously, you wouldn't and you would have been reprimanded due to not completing your work assignments. NOBODY that I ever knew (not even upper management) ever had time to do anything like that on a work trip unless they took vacation time at the end of the work trip and did it on their own time afterwards. We were getting paid too much by our agency to ever squander work time on that sort of thing.
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Old 03-25-2016, 02:18 PM   #40
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You were lucky that you didn't work for my agency - - you never would have traveled for work again! Seriously, you wouldn't and you would have been reprimanded due to not completing your work assignments. NOBODY that I ever knew (not even upper management) ever had time to do anything like that on a work trip unless they took vacation time at the end of the work trip and did it on their own time afterwards. We were getting paid too much by our agency to ever squander work time on that sort of thing.
We have two week assessments where it is cheaper (or breakeven) to stay the weekend than to travel home and back again. So my federal agency will allow you to stay over and will pay per diem, hotel, and rental car. If you then work on the weekend, you can claim comp time but otherwise you are not getting paid and can do what you like so you could go to Disneyworld or whatever. These are usually complex assessments so I generally wrk on my report on Saturday but may take Sunday off. During the weekdays, any sightseeing is done after hours. Just wanted to clarify for all the taxpayers reading this.
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