* Acronyms and Slang Frequently Used on the Forum *

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Originally Posted by Martha

I understand what you are saying, but I still think it's semantics. Though it's your word so you get to decide the definition.

No, and yes.

Rational to me means reasoned, logical, and based on fact. If you have a hairball, it acts to block decision making based on reason, logic and evidence. So I don't think the hairball effected person can produce a perfectly rational decision.

Weeeell...according to the research, once you've got a hairball, you're going to give an answer constructed on the basis for building the hairball. That may very well be reasoned, logical and based on fact. However, no current analysis of the presented facts may have been made.

[Rich_in_Tampa]

On hairballs, rational decision making and the like...

In medical decisions (at least from an ivory tower view), preferences and values tend to predominate (called "unilities" or "impacts"). But, they found a way to arithmetically factor them in so that they are no longer "rational" or irrational, they just "are." Only if they are based on a clear and acknowledged. misunderstanding of circumstance are they "corrected."

Each decision maker assigns a score to every foreseeable outcome. As an example, most would agree that death is often the worst outcome, while complete cure is the best. In between, things like losing a leg, loss of ability to speak, etc. are placed somewhere in between. On a 0-to-1 scale, they all find their place and create a quantitative profile unique for every patient. So, losing a leg may be horrific for a 55 year old accountant, but even more horrific for* 23 year old ballet dancer as an example. Not right or wrong, just elsewhere on the scale.

Throw in a pinch of evidence about likelihoods and benefits from the best research data available, and you can come up with the "right" decision for that patient. "Right" means the decision most likely to reflect that patient's preferences, risk tolerance, value system, etc.

Maybe we should look at what we mean by rational. It's relative.

[Martha]

What if the ballet dancer is so afraid to lose her leg that she refuses what is necessary to save her life?* Maybe that is rare in medical decisions, but biases can shut down rationality. There are the people who do not want to interfere with God/nature and refuse medical care. I suppose that is fine for the one refusing the care for themselves, but what if it is for their children?

My husband has a friend who believes carbon 14 dating to be a scientific mistake at best and a conspiracy at worst.* This is because it doesn't fit with how he reads the bible.* OK for him, but he wants to educate children to have the same biases as he does.

I do like the scoring system for outcomes.* I recall you suggested that here for retirement decisions.

[Rich_in_Tampa]

Originally Posted by Martha

What if the ballet dancer is so afraid to lose her leg that she refuses what is necessary to save her life?*

But who can judge on her behalf what is right and wrong for her? In cases of minority, incompetency, clinical depression or other psych impairment, etc. there are other duties of course, but barring that all one can do is fully explore all the relevant issues and even confront those decisions that seem counter to the "reasonable person" test.

It's a stretch in this example, but bear with me:* let's suppose this dancer came from 3 generations of prima ballerinas, was engaged to a world class ballet dancer, and knew almost no other form of reward. Say she had few other skills, and felt that pursuing dance was her calling according to her religious advisors, and that her whole marriage was built around it. Say she had a probable offer pending from the big ballet company possibly in a year or two... her family and few friends were counting on her to be famous, etc. etc. etc.

There are "irrational" subjective components to the definition of "rational" I guess .

[Martha]

Yes, we are not Vulcans. We do not make decisions solely based on logic.

[justin]

Originally Posted by Martha

Yes, we are not Vulcans. We do not make decisions solely based on logic.

Speak for yourself Martha!

Justin the Vulcan.

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[cute fuzzy bunny]

Absolutely, although some people like to think they're making a sound vulcanlike decision on something.

I just try to avoid using the word 'irrational' when referring to someone or they're decision process, although that term might be factually correct.

Its not that they're suffering from some mental deficiency. It is what it is.

[justin]

CFB,

Martha's inability to see that the distinction between her definition of "hairball" and your defininition of "hairball" goes beyond mere semantics is itself a hairball.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

That thought had already occurred to me, but I thought it imprudent to discuss marthas hairball in a public forum.

[Rich_in_Tampa]

Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny

I just try to avoid using the word 'irrational' when referring to someone or they're decision process, although that term might be factually correct.

Agree.

And I'd even take it one step further: "factually correct" may be applicable to the evidence-based components of a decision. But as to questions like, "how bad is it if I lose my leg,", the only "correct" answer is that of the individual decision maker.

Two deciders using the exact same facts can come to two different decision, each correct for themself.

[wabmester]

Originally Posted by Martha

Yes, we are not Vulcans.

Speak for yourself, human.* *Oh, and live long and prosper.

Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa

... called "unilities"

I like it. Rich, do you know if that one is legal in Scrabble?*

[Rich_in_Tampa]

Originally Posted by wab

"unilities.."
I like it. Rich, do you know if that one is legal in Scrabble?*

Uhhh.. utilities.

Yes, scrabble-worthy

[wabmester]

Nuts. I thought it might be obscure medical jargon -- a very rich source for good scrabble words.

[Martha]

"Brazilian" or "Brazillion":* http://early-retirement.org/forums/i...71847#msg71847

[Martha]

ER mottos and symbols:* dryer sheets and dryer sheet flag with: non sum qualis eram

http://early-retirement.org/forums/i...sg7215#msg7215


http://early-retirement.org/forums/i...sg7466#msg7466

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Yes, we are not Vulcans. We do not make decisions solely based on logic.

True. But some of us are Thetans.

L. Ron Gitano

[yakers]

Originally Posted by Ed_The_Gypsy

True. But some of us are Thetans.

L. Ron Gitano

At least that much is clear.

[Mr._johngalt]

Originally Posted by lazyday

The MENSA entry in the list is funny, but may actually misinform some people...here's what Mensa really means:
http://www.mensa.org/index0.php?page=10

As I see it, Mensa is a social club for the somewhat intelligent. Many, but not all, members are social misfits. A few have emotional intelligence quotients below 70. But it is a fun group if you like to hang around fairly smart people. Including a few who are truly brilliant.

I agree with this (long time member). I see myself as a kind of "social misfit"
and misanthropic to boot, but........can you can top this? I went to a Mensa
function once at a pretty nice restaurant. Guy next to me looks a bit like
a heavier version of Charles Manson. He is dressed in an orange jumpsuit
with his hair and beard died bright orange, and even his sneakers!
It was not Haloween. For a while this guy was living in his van, and he is one of
the smartest people I ever met, just no obvious social skills.

JG

[donheff]

Originally Posted by Ed_The_Gypsy

True. But some of us are Thetans.

Tom Cruise is on the board? What moniker is he posting under?

[kcowan]

SNAFU - Situation Normal, All Fouled Up