"Does anyone bother to search anymore?"

[honobob]

These dang new posters keep spouting off or asking questions on subjects that we've discussed a million times, only we did it better and in less space

Seems like the easier solution would to be ban new posters. Obviously the new ones are blowhards of limited intelligence. It's apparent that all attempts to coeirce group think has failed. Are we so positive that a new hierarchy will resolve the issue or will we just be submiting to a new beauracracy?

Could the easier solution be for US, the better and brighter, to resolve to not participate in redundant threads? Is it that hard to see a thread that we know we hold the complete set of wisdom and knowledge and "just say no". Can we overcome the guilt that these poor souls will suffer without OUR superior input but somehow struggle to their own hard fought decision, as wrong as it may be. How about just adding another tier? FIRE 101 and FIRE 201? Or a Special FIRE? (Think short bus)

Can't we just agree that Moderators are from Mars and Threads are from Venus and leave things alone.

 

[twaddle]

Hey, was that satire?

I like the idea of a FAQ, as long as it fits in Nords' 6-line sig.

 

[Fireup2020]

Sometimes, after searching does not bring up the answer looking for...one posts a new thread...close, but not quite what has been discussed previously.

 

[haha]

The BogleHeads forum is concise and mainly informational but, man, it is duller than watching paint dry. I almost never go there. Here people get more excited, have more fun, etc. Can you have it both ways?

No. If this forum manages to accomplish what it seems to be trying to accomplish, it will be just as boring as all those others that have way lower participation. And of course post counts will dwindle, as will ad-looks, as will revenue...

Humpty -Dumpty sat on a wall
Humpty -Dumpty had a great fall
And all the King's horses
And all the King's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

ha

 

[twaddle]

No. If this forum manages to accomplish what it seems to be trying to accomplish, it will be just as boring as all those others that have way lower participation.

Ha, you ignorant slut.

I don't think so. The new rules have already inspired some pretty good civil disobedience. Don't you want to see how far you can push the mods?

 

[honobob]

Hey, was that satire?

Satire (from Latin satura, not from the Greek mythological figure satyr[1]) is a literary genre, chiefly literary and dramatic, in which human or individual vices, follies, abuses, or shortcomings are held up to censure by means of ridicule, derision, burlesque, irony, or other methods, sometimes with an intent to bring about improvement.[2] It is used in graphic arts and performing arts as well. Although satire is usually meant to be humorous, the purpose of satire is not primarily humour but criticism of an event, an individual or a group in a clever manner.

Hey, in what sense are you calling me clever, Greek, or mythological? Did we agree on a cut off date to define new poster? Actually I just didn't want to point out the obvious solution, IGNORE NEW POSTER button!

 

[SteveR]

The idea of a new forum to allow folks new to the forums to find some of the more commonly discussed topics instead of starting a whole new series of threads has been discussed before and a few new forums on the board were added to help in this matter (Best of The Board and creation of the current forums like Fire and Money, Other Topics, etc.).

I support the creation of a team of folks who would create a new forum area which would be populated with single ideas or discussion topics, i.e., Take SS before 65?, Pay Mortage or invest?, 72(t) or cash? etc. The team would work on collecting past posts related to the thread topic and linking them to the initial discussion topic. Nords has already volunteered to do this and I believe there are others here who would enjoy helping him out on this massive project. It would also help the newbees find these data and would ease the repetitive posting "eye glazing over" by the "old timers".

The moderators or anyone else could then refer a new question to this area as the first place to look for the desired information. If it is not in the FAQ section then the poster could ask the question in the appropriate forum.

I don't believe anyone is trying to prevent anyone from posting on the board; rather, the intent is to make it easier for folks to find information that has most likely already been fully discussed. If the topic areas change due to new laws or the like, then I have no doubt it will be fully discussed here and can then be linked to the FAQ for future reference.

 

[ERD50]

I'll kick it off then:

FAQ: Should I pay off, or accelerate the monthly payments on my mortgage?

Background: Many people are attracted to the idea of paying off their mortgage to be debt free. Is this always a good idea? Sorry, no easy answers - you need to judge for yourself. But the impact may be less than you think. Here are some things to think about.

CONSIDERATIONS:

1) Your Net Worth - While pre-paying a mortgage removes the debt, that money has to come from somewhere. Paying off a mortgage is moving money from one 'account' to another. The mere act of paying off a mortgage does not change your net worth. Same thing for accelerated payments. Those payments could go to a savings account rather than to your mortgage principal.

2) Taxes - Many people receive a tax deduction against the interest they pay on their mortgage. There are many factors here, tax code being what it is. To be certain, it is probably best to compute your taxes with and without the mortgage interest and compare. Also consider the impact of:

2a) Any taxable income generated by the money used to pay off the mortgage.

2b) The tax impacts of withdraws from deferred retirement accounts to pay the mortgage.

3) Interest Rate on the Mortgage - bla, bla, bla

4) Investment Rate of Return - bla, bla, bla

5) Liquidity - Pre-paying a mortgage can make that money harder to get to in an emergency. If kept in an account, some can be earmarked for liquid investments.

6) Simplification - One less bill to pay. No late fee to worry about if there is no bill!

7) Emotional Factors - Some people report a sense of emotional relief at being debt free. Others have trouble understanding this, as the actual financial difference may be small. Obviously a personal decision.


Summary: Taxes, mortgage interest rate, and rate of return on the invested money need to be considered to determine if a pre-pay is financially beneficial to you, and worth any loss of liquidity. Weigh this against any emotional concerns you have in this area.

Some of the discussions on this subject can be found here:

<insert links>
<insert links>

Tax Info:

<insert links>

If you would like to discuss this further, don't understand something, have anything to add, or disagree with anything, or just want to say 'thanks for the info', please start a new thread, and mention that you've been through the FAQ already.

We hope this was helpful to you.

Regards - From the posters at www.early-retirement.org

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

OK, it could probably use some lightening up, but Mortgages just don't have that obvious element of excitement and controversy that lurks just below the surface of a thread about off tastes in dairy products. There's only so much to work with here folks

I suspect others can inject a little life into it - go at it!

At any rate - is it a start? Hey, throw it out if you don't like it - I have a thick skin when it comes to that. I ain't no lit-errr-arry gene-ee-u-s.

-ERD50

 

[Nords]

Andy, the mods, and I will be working on a beta. More next week.

If those of you on my Ignore Poster list think you have something constructive to contribute then kindly look up my e-mail address in my profile...

 

[ChemEng]

Ive seen the same thing in place over at FatWallet.com's financial forums.

Instead of people griping that they have already answered the question, they now gripe that the noob hasnt read the FAQs at the top of the first page.

Bottom line--very low probability of fixing the problem and only adds more work to people who already frequent the boards to reduce input from people who may grow into that role.

 

[Andy R]

I have to admit that I am guilty of not searching enough when looking for info on a forum about Jeeps. I often have a question about maintenance or some other little fix and there are 600,000 posts in the Cherokee section alone of JeepForum.com. Now, I never post or even search, I go strait to the FAQ that they have put together (link) and search the page for maintenance.

I think these FAQs will be very valuable for many of our members (not just newbies). Once complied we will need to look at ways to promote them in very bold position for new members. A few ideas would be to include a link in the welcome email and welcome PMs. Another would be to add a bold link at the top of the page for people with no posts or even make it so that everyone can see the link but you can disable it from your UserCP. We can also add this to the new thread page to make sure people check the FAQs before starting a thread. Lastly when people do start a thread that has been covered by one of the FAQs we can have a standard response written that politely directs them to the FAQs.

 

[ERD50]

I think these FAQs will be very valuable for many of our members (not just newbies).

Agree 100%. I'm not a newbie, I've read many of the threads on mortgage pay-offs for example, but the info is so scattered, opinions, numbers, and subsequent corrections and references make it tough to separate the wheat from the chaff. And I'm certain that many just give up in the process. I really think a FAQ can add value, and attract people to the site, and keep them here.

I'm in the 5th year of a 30 year, 5 years fixed 5% mortgage myself. I have not run the numbers, my 'gut' tells me 5% is 'cheap money'. But next year, if it goes up to 6%, I want to look at it in detail. A concise summary is going to help ensure I don't miss something.

Funny thing for me is, that 'emotional factor' is 180 degrees from others. If I decide to pay off that mortgage, it's going to 'hurt' to see my personal account (that I look at almost daily) 'down' by that dollar amount! It also takes me below a 'magic number' in that account (purely emotional), and more practically, may take me to a lower support level at that particular broker. But, if the numbers make sense, I'll get over it

Oh, and search functions are really fairly useless on forums like this. I also post to a hobby forum - same problem, there are only so many 'keywords' in the vocabulary of any forum dedicated to a specific topic. So searches just return too many posts to be of much use.

-ERD50

 

[twaddle]

Not to ruffle any feathers or anything, but who will hold the copyright to this FAQ?

BTW, I think Jeep maintenance is a little different than ER. I'd be much more worried about biases creeping into an ER FAQ, but I still think it's useful, and I appreciate the future effort.

 

[haha]

Agree 100%. I'm not a newbie, I've read many of the threads on mortgage pay-offs for example, but the info is so scattered, opinions, numbers, and subsequent corrections and references make it tough to separate the wheat from the chaff.
-ERD50

This is hard to understand. Since God doesn't post on this board (well, gods maybe, but not God) it will alway be only opinions and numbers. What else is there?

Ha

 

[haha]

... but I still think it's useful, and I appreciate the future effort.

Me too! It will employ idle hands that might otherwise find their way to The Devil's Workshop.

Ha

 

[HFWR]

Me too! It will employ idle hands that might otherwise find their way to The Devil's Workshop.

Ha

And it's gettin' kinda crowded in here...

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by ERD50
Agree 100%. I'm not a newbie, I've read many of the threads on mortgage pay-offs for example, but the info is so scattered, opinions, numbers, and subsequent corrections and references make it tough to separate the wheat from the chaff.
-ERD50

This is hard to understand. Since God doesn't post on this board (well, gods maybe, but not God) it will alway be only opinions and numbers. What else is there?

Ha

Sorry Ha, my sentence construction could have been clearer.

I have no problem with giving and/or reading opinions. But when they get scattered, it makes it hard to digest the info. Poster A presents an opinion on post #34 of a thread, Poster B offers a different opinion in post #51 of a separate thread. A reader may never connect the two. Same with the numbers, corrections, etc.

I'd be much more worried about biases creeping into an ER FAQ, but I still think it's useful, and I appreciate the future effort.

That is why I was hoping this would be a community 'wiki' sort of effort. Let anyone on the forum have input, and let's try for some kind of consensus as to whether that input goes in or not. That is one of the things I like about wikipedia, any topic that attracts a reasonable number of contributers is likely to have BOTH sides of the story there. It does not mean they need to agree, but just present both sides in a useful way.

That is one reason, in the trial balloon I floated to try to kick this off, I avoided the words 'pro/con'. They are all just considerations. Let the reader decide, or ask more questions of the forum.

Anyone want to take a stab at adding to or editing what I put up?

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/showpost.php?p=564442&postcount=33

-ERD50

 

[REWahoo]

ERD50,

Thanks for your initiative to get the ball rolling on the FAQ/search project.

Suggestion: Rather than start down your own path, why don't you get with Nords, the guy who volunteered for the project and Andy gave the go ahead to, and see how you two can collaborate efforts? This may prevent duplication of effort, speed the project, and help us end up with better results.

 

[ERD50]

ERD50,

Thanks for your initiative to get the ball rolling on the FAQ/search project.

Suggestion: Rather than start down your own path, why don't you get with Nords, the guy who volunteered for the project and Andy gave the go ahead to, and see how you two can collaborate efforts? This may prevent duplication of effort, speed the project, and help us end up with better results.

Well, personally, I think it is of more value if lots of people have input. If it is the work of one or two, it will always have the taint of 'bias' attached to it. Nothing intended against Nords by that of course, just a general comment.

I like the 'wiki' approach. Take my shell of a start, add to it, edit it, and ask people what they think.

The intention was not for it to be 'my own path' but strictly a kick off. If it ends up with some value, and does not have a single word from my first post in it, I'm OK with that. I'm only interested in a decent end product. Why can't we all help?

-ERD50

 

[REWahoo]

I'm only interested in a decent end product. Why can't we all help?

-ERD50

I think you misunderstood my post.

I agree that we need/want the input of many posters to end up with the best final results. I was only trying to say why don't you get with Nords about coordinating your efforts?

Remember, he's retired and a surf bum, so no way will he be doing all the work!

 

[twaddle]

I agree with ERD50 that a wiki would be ideal, and wouldn't require central [-]command[/-] [-]authority[/-] coordination.

I'd also like to see some sort of community copyright that prohibited commercial redistribution.

But then I have an awful lot of opinions for somebody who hasn't volunteered to help.

 

[REWahoo]

But then I have an awful lot of opinions for somebody who hasn't volunteered to help.

Dang! You sure know how to take all the fun out of a snappy comeback...

 

[twaddle]

Oh, the guilt is getting to be overwhelming. As a former web weenie, I'd be willing to setup a wiki as a "build it and they will come" sort of exercise. But it would be interesting to hear from Nords and AndyR on their plans. The [-]secrecy[/-] silence is killing me.

 

[ERD50]

I was only trying to say why don't you get with Nords about coordinating your efforts?

Well like twaddle said, I don't think there is much coordination needed (at least at first). I see no reason why we can't start right now.

I figured all Nords would need to do is a little moderating of the input and to decide (with input from the group) when to lock it. Then actually take it and post the final FAQ to the appropriate place in the forum.

Maybe that effort will go up in flames faster than a dairy product can develop off-tastes on the dashboard of a car in a parking lot in the Texas sun, but I figure it's worth a try.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

I'd be willing to setup a wiki

I'm not talking about any 'building' - just grab my post and edit it, or throw it out and start over. Just copy/paste is the only tool we need. Right?

-ERD50