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Old 09-13-2007, 09:24 AM   #61
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Feel free to come up with other alternatives or other possible root causes.

No thanks. I like things more-or-less as they are.
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:43 AM   #62
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I don't care one way or another whether I am "moderator emeritus."

I agree with Brewer that making moderation nameless and faceless is not a good idea.

Moderators on this board historically have been people who also are avid participants. Sometimes a moderator can become very involved in a heated debate. When this occurs I believe that the particular moderator should not use his or her moderator status to criticize or edit a poster participating in that discussion and another moderator should intervene if things get out of hand.

Otherwise, moderators should follow the same guidelines as everyone else.
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:45 AM   #63
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No thanks. I like things more-or-less as they are.
back from the original start of this thread....

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Until the mods grow a pair.....

I believe that you have "looped" back on your own thread.... I never thought it possible....Yeah, the modulators have a thankless job...a quick PM to one of them seems to quickly do the trick...I think the concerns about their opinions overshadowing others is overdone....Frankly, there are a lot of very opinionated folks here in general....
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:49 AM   #64
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OK, so we keep the status quo. That means everything here is peachy, right?

My impression is that personal attacks have gotten out of hand. Honobob dragged up a thread from 2004. In that thread, we see a group of people with widely divergent viewpoints. There is some ribbing, but there are no nasty personal attacks. There was an implict code that said "personal attacks are verboten."

I was thinking last night about when things started going downhill here. Some might argue that it's a recent phenomenon and a natural side effect of growth.

I think it started when John Galt was directly attacked and chased away.
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:53 AM   #65
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Well, I think (3) may be the only one with any teeth. It solves several problems:

-- Who wants to be a mod if they can't particpate freely in the threads without a lot of self-censorship?

-- A generic mod account might make it easier for the mods to regulate one another (and the ex-mods) when they're "out of uniform" and out of line.

-- It makes it easier for them to keep the peace without fear of retribution and without taking the often thankless feedback on moderation personally.

The downside is that bad moderator calls wouldn't be as accountable, but if they have their own code of conduct, it should be easy for them to hold themselves accountable.

Bottom-line is that moderation is a thankless task, and it's never going to be easy to herd cats, so I was just focusing on changes that *might* help without increasing their load. Feel free to come up with other alternatives or other possible root causes.
Be careful! You might end up one of us if you keep it up!
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:03 AM   #66
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I think it started when John Galt was directly attacked and chased away.
JG wasn't chased away. The braggart/liar couldn't take the ribbing he got when he was called on his BS. He chose to go of his own accord, AFAIK.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:14 AM   #67
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The guy had a quirky personallity for sure, but I think it's obvious that a lynch mob was formed fairly soon after he was publically called out for his quirks. And these days, lynch mobs are SOP for this place.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:17 AM   #68
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The guy had a quirky personallity for sure, but I think it's obvious that a lynch mob was formed fairly soon after he was publically called out for his quirks. And these days, lynch mobs are SOP for this place.


I don't see it, personally, but you are welcome to your opinion.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:21 AM   #69
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Brew, I enjoy reading you a lot. But, d00d, you don't see it because one of your personality quirks is that you enjoy running "trolls" out of town.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:25 AM   #70
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The guy had a quirky personallity for sure, but I think it's obvious that a lynch mob was formed fairly soon after he was publically called out for his quirks.
As I recall it the "lynch mob" consisted of his ex-wife who hijacked his password and said some rather uncomplimentary things about him on the forum. His response was to tuck his tail into his gonadinal area and seek other venues.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:26 AM   #71
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The JG situation was complicated and unusual. Significant moderation of a number of posters occurred and he left of his own accord because of a specific issue, not because of any lynch mob.

It is unfortunate if that situation, which was far from transparent, leads people to believe that we have a lynch mob culture.

EDIT: well I certainly was obtuse as compared to REWahoo!
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:30 AM   #72
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Brew, I enjoy reading you a lot. But, d00d, you don't see it because one of your personality quirks is that you enjoy running "trolls" out of town.

Careful...
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:33 AM   #73
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EDIT: well I certainly was obtuse as compared to REWahoo!
Some people call a spade a spade. Others call it a ***king shovel.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:46 AM   #74
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Calling a spade a spade is fine, I guess, but not if you want to continue living with that person in harmony.

Something that might augment dory's fine "reasonable person" policy: never say something in a public online setting that you wouldn't say sitting next to that person.

And, yes, that means you probably wouldn't want to sit next to me.
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Old 09-13-2007, 12:52 PM   #75
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That "new member" turned out to be an old member previously banned...
See, that recycled troll could've behaved under his new alter-ego and no one would've been the wiser. However the behavioral pressure turned out to be too much and he quickly reverted to his old ways.

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I don't care one way or another whether I am "moderator emeritus."
Same here. If the mods & admins feel it's distracting from the board's focus then they can have my "moderator emeritus" badge too. I even have an 80x80 version of my avatar on my HD. Not, of course, that I feel it's necessary for the mods to obtain our blessing to do either of those actions.

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The JG situation was complicated and unusual. Significant moderation of a number of posters occurred and he left of his own accord because of a specific issue, not because of any lynch mob.
Yeah, we've never had another poster spout as much BS, get challenged on it, and keep coming back to spout more! We've never had someone register an account, start claiming that "she" was his wife (now "ex-wife"), debunk his claims, allege various felonies, and then publicly thank the alpha dog in the lynch mob for calling him on his claims.

JG has been ignored at a couple other boards, too. He's now happily spouting his crap in letters to the editor of his local paper, so I don't feel bad for his loss of socialization.

In general those who carp at this board's moderation are blissfully ignorant of what's happening behind the scenes. Before wrapping oneself in a copy of the First Amendment and peeing on another poster, try walking a mile in a moderator's shoes.

Those who find a board with better moderation should go to it. And don't hesitate to tell this board's staff how that other board's better methods could be adapted here...
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Old 09-13-2007, 12:54 PM   #76
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JG has been ignored at a couple other boards, too. He's now happily spouting his crap in letters to the editor of his local paper, so I don't feel bad for his loss of socialization.
Really? Where? Funny.
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Old 09-13-2007, 01:34 PM   #77
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Those who find a board with better moderation should go to it.
Be careful what you wish for. I miss many of the voices of those who have taken your oft-stated command to heart.

How about we try another tack this time, and the alpha dogs make an attempt to rein in the personal attacks on alleged "trolls." I'm simply proposing voluntary compliance. It makes sense to me that we start with those role models with "mod" in their titles.
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Old 09-13-2007, 02:25 PM   #78
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Maybe a poll should be started on whether this forum should: 1) have the moderators continue to police this site for the good of the majority; or, 2) allow trolls to destroy the forum for the sake of destruction.

My vote is for the moderators. While they may not always be perfect, my opinion is they do a d@mn good job.
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Old 09-13-2007, 02:41 PM   #79
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anti-mod people... i don't get your line of thinking...if a person makes a post that is controversial, offensive or repulsive to some, and people let them know - then that group becomes a lynch mob? and poor OP? please... you can't be only for free speech for one side of a debate... if it happens that one side has a mob-ish side of supporters and the other doesn't ...then that is what it is.
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Old 09-13-2007, 02:42 PM   #80
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Yeah, let's take the trolls down!

Wait, what's a troll? This board is about early retirement. A pretty unconventional concept. We're likely to attract strong-willed opinionated types here. So, obviously we can't ban all strong-willed opinionated types, right?

I can't remember anybody really blowing up on me during one of my conversations here. Well, there was CT and his "blow me!" but I was begging for that one. People don't blow up on me because I don't blow up on them. Try it.
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