OK... the title above says....

[HsiaoChu]

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Originally Posted by Bestwifeever You mean like this one: http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...are-49517.html? Really I thought you enjoyed these threads since you have posted to them so many times, besides starting that one. r

I do.... to a point. OK, you can have your fun.

[Rustic23]

I get two public pensions and I don't mind the conversation. How else are you going to find out what others are thinking if you don't let them express themselves. I don't see where a conversation on public pensions would fit into Politics unless the discussion was something like 'Why is the Obama administration trying to cut public pensions?' However, a discussion as to weather teachers and other public employees pensions are in trouble or too fat, or are out of line and effecting others ability to retire seems within bounds.

[haha]

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Originally Posted by REWahoo So it would appear...

+1 on that!

[donheff]

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Originally Posted by Zarathu I do.... to a point. OK, you can have your fun. I guess its worthless to try to get my point across anymore. Forget I brought it up.

Actually, it is probably valuable that you hear things like this (me too as a public pensioner). If federal, state and local debt situations continue to deteriorate all bets could be off - including those set in current laws. It is worth our while to see what our fellow citizens are thinking the new order should be

[travelover]

I just want to go on the record as opposing tax payer funded pensions for kittens, though an exception may be made for heroic actions by cats, especially in the defense of bacon.

[Nords]

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Originally Posted by Zarathu The title above says Early Retirement Org. I wonder if the forum as a whole could stick to issues that involve retirement or early retirement...

On topic? You expect this board, which is legendary for its thread hijacks, to stay on topic?!? Good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by Zarathu ... and that threads in forums complaining about people who get early retirement or retirement pensions could be eliminated.

Of the nearly 10,000 registered members on this board, you appear to be the only one offended by the topic. I'd try not to take it personally, because it's not necessarily about you personally.

If you're offended by a particular poster, that's what the "Ignore Poster" feature is for.

From http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...ork&page=rules :

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Other than politics not directly related to early retirement, we don't have rules about what is appropriate discussion material. Certainly any discussions related to early retirement are welcome - we don't have any "party line" and while individual members may have (and express) strong opinions on anything from paying off your mortgage early to the wisdom of annuities, they speak for themselves. We just ask everyone to follow the "reasonable person" principle.

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Originally Posted by Zarathu I just wish that these kinds of sometimes nasty complaining could not be a part of this forum. Its not my choice, and after awhile one just learns to ignore certain threads or certain people who complain all the time, but still....... Its my thought.

You can wonder and you can wish, but I think you'll be a lot more successful at changing your own behavior/feelings before you'll succeed in changing any of the behavior/feelings of the other posters.

There are many other retirement discussion boards out there on the Internet, and maybe you'll feel more welcome on one of them. You could even start your own.

As dozens of other members have learned for themselves, if this place is making you grumpy then you either need to take a break or move on.

[Leonidas]

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Originally Posted by Zarathu Anything that causes such rancor should not be included in a slippery slope concern, IMO. What you are saying then is that there is not a specific subject area for this website, even though it says that at the top..... again in my opinion, only.

I look up there and see "Early Retirement Forums" and think that my pension is a very big part of why I retired at 45. And around here it is well-recognized that pensions (and access to health care) is the golden ring to snatch if you want to retire early without making zillions or hitting the lotto.

I've been batting the pension topic around this ballpark long before you showed up, and I will agree that for some of the other posters there is a perceptible opinion that "I don't have it so neither should you." But those folks are in the minority, and almost all of them will listen to alternative opinions. But the majority of the folks here, who don't have pensions, are mostly concerned about the economic viability of their local and state governments that are being burdened with huge deficits in public pensions. I think that's reasonable, given that they are the cash cows funding source for those governments.

And trust me, you're not anywhere near the first person who got his nipples caught up in the whirling machinery that poses for debate and discussion in this place. Even when the debate is civil, not everybody is going to agree with you. Many will differ because they honestly believe differently, and then there are few idiots and trolls in the mix that would argue what color the grass is supposed to be. If you're going to actively engage in the conversation here, being disagreed with (even when the person on the other side is so clearly wrong because anybody can see you're right) is just something you have to get used to, ignore, or leave.

So, decide if you can deal with it - and if not, then our loss is some other forums gain. And if you're going to stay, do what I do - put a bandaid on them mangled, bleeding nipples of yours and cowboy up pardner.

[clifp]

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Originally Posted by Nords On topic? You expect this board, which is legendary for its thread hijacks, to stay on topic?!? Good luck with that. Of the nearly 10,000 registered members on this board, you appear to be the only one offended by the topic. I'd try not to take it personally, because it's not necessarily about you personally. If you're offended by a particular poster, that's what the "Ignore Poster" feature is for. As dozens of other members have learned for themselves, if this place is making you grumpy then you either need to take a break or move on.

What Nords said.

So people want to crusade to make people aware about abused animals, autistic kids, or global warming. I'm on crusade to warn people about underfunded public pensions, it is not like I am alone in talking about them, it is subject of many press articles. I take a certain pride in digging deeper than the typical reporter. Perhaps you should write to NY Times, Washington Post, or WSJ and suggest that they should stop writing about them also.

If you start a thread about pension, I'll certainly join in. You are free to ignore me, ignore the topic, or go someplace else.

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Originally Posted by travelover I just want to go on the record as opposing tax payer funded pensions for kittens, though an exception may be made for heroic actions by cats, especially in the defense of bacon.

On of the difficult things in setting up pension for heroic cats, is in calculating how many of their 9 lives were lost in the heroic action. Based on studies by PETA and the Humane society I calculate about 1.8 lives are lost on average.
The typical heroic feline will live an additional 7 years, with a estimated food, treat,and annual vet bill of $220. According FireCalc a $1,500 portfolio will have 75% success rate in providing care for the courageous cats. , or about $0.25/taxpayer.

[FIREd]

My cats got trust funds, they don't need no taxpayer-funded pension... They are Bama cats through and through and all they care about is lower taxes (so that mommy and daddy have more money left over for Filet Mignon Fancy Feast).

[REWahoo]

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Originally Posted by clifp ... or about $0.25/taxpayer.

Which works out to 1-3 slices of bacon, depending on thickness...

[freebird5825]

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Originally Posted by Bestwifeever Meanwhile: Bacon candy Prep: 5 minutes Cook: 15 minutes Makes: 4 servings

Quit doing that! Just kidding.

As far as public pensions are concerned, I am the recipient of a CSRS survivor pension now, with my own FERS pension on deck in 5 years. I cannot ever remember anyone here personally giving me any grief about either one.
I follow these pension discussions closely because it expands my own horizons to see different opinions. An open mind is a good thing to keep.

[W2R]

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Originally Posted by FIREdreamer My cats got trust funds, they don't need no taxpayer-funded pension... They are Bama cats through and through and all they care about is lower taxes (so that mommy and daddy have more money left over for Filet Mignon Fancy Feast).

I live in New Orleans where I eat the best food in the world on a daily basis, and yet even to me that Filet Mignon Fancy Feast sounds awfully good. I promise I will change!

I am the happy recipient of a federal pension that I earned, and I do not especially relate to posts from those who think it should be taken from me. To me a pension is part of a compensation package, and pension and health care were the big reasons why I worked for the federal government. (I sure didn't do it for the mentally challenging, stimulating, ego-fulfilling nature of my work ).

We each made our own deals in choosing a job and compensation package. Yet, if someone wants to whine post about how they should take my pension (or house, or car, or portfolio), I suppose I can try to explain the facts of life to them or else I can just go on to read other posts instead, or just laugh.

Meanwhile, they can complain all they want about my (admittedly tiny) pension, but every month it shows up in my bank account.

[Texas Proud]

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Originally Posted by Zarathu Well.... I have the right to ignore posters and ignore threads that I think aren't part of the topic. I don't have the right to control the majority. If there are a large number of people who want to argue about whether I have the right as an educator for 40 years to have a pension because they don't feel like paying for it now, even though as a group, they had no problem with putting it in the law 40 years ago, THAT'S A DECISION BY THIS GROUP. I still think stuff like that belongs in political discussion since it has nothing to do with preparing for retirement in a financial way. But whatever the group decides, its no big deal for me. Just thought it was worth bringing up. Z

I think everything should be open... if I do not like a topic, I don't read... if I don't like a person's comments, I put on ignore (note: I do not have anyone on ignore... I like reading other people's opinion even when they are completely wrong and stupd ... and I am not talking about you )

I do not think anybody said you should not get your retirement benefits that you have earned and I would think are already getting... I would like you to point me in that direction if you did. Most everybody that I have read is saying future benefits...

[HsiaoChu]

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud I do not think anybody said you should not get your retirement benefits that you have earned and I would think are already getting... I would like you to point me in that direction if you did. Most everybody that I have read is saying future benefits...

On the basis of future benefits, I break with my unions. While I feel bad for those currently not vested, I fully understand that the time for defined benefit plans in public pensions is gone.

And no, Texas Proud, you and most others haven't said that current people in the bargaining vestings should lose their pensions. But some people have, and some have gotten pretty nasty about it. And I fully understand this. My taxes in retirement will also go up for this, and since I'm moving 600 miles away, not even to help those that I worked with. But I think the discussion should not center on hand wringing but on solutions.

Still..... its good to try to remember that the purpose of this forum is retirement and living OK in retirement. And discussion that encourages discussions about making people live less well because other people are living less well is not in the spirit of the ER forum, In my opinion.

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Zarathu, forums each have their own culture. This one is notorious for its tendency to drift off into tangents which sometimes bear little or no relation to the original post. Its moderation is light, in my opinion, which to me is a good thing.

I admit I found it vexing when I started out, because I was starved for "hard" financial information and advice -- difficult to pin down when the thread was gyrating wildly.

But after a while I came to like the unpredictability and often interesting or humorous digressions. Maybe if you see it from that perspective, the pesky pension pot-shots won't bug you. Until you brought it up, I hadn't even noticed that there was a "problem."

So my suggestion is to just go with the flow a little. Most of the pension-haters are probably just envious. You're a relatively new member so enjoy the ride.

[calmloki]

Back when my gal was a service manager she used to have old geezers coming in and trying to wheedle down the cost of their car repairs with the "i'm on a fixed income" line. you know - pensioners. She defused and disarmed by crying out "Wow! You're lucky! I have to work for a living and don't know where next month's income is coming from"!

[Bestwifeever]

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Originally Posted by clifp ....On of the difficult things in setting up pension for heroic cats, is in calculating how many of their 9 lives were lost in the heroic action. Based on studies by PETA and the Humane society I calculate about 1.8 lives are lost on average. The typical heroic feline will live an additional 7 years, with a estimated food, treat,and annual vet bill of $220. According FireCalc a $1,500 portfolio will have 75% success rate in providing care for the courageous cats. , or about $0.25/taxpayer.

I don't understand why cats can't fund their own retirements; the remainder of their nine lives mean taxpayers are paying waaaay more than they do for dogs, who have just the one paltry life but who are much more courageous when it comes to defending bacon.

[Nords]

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud I think everything should be open... if I do not like a topic, I don't read... if I don't like a person's comments, I put on ignore (note: I do not have anyone on ignore... I like reading other people's opinion even when they are completely wrong and stupid

I have 39 posters on my "Ignore" list, although at least 30 of them appear to be no longer active on this forum.

In an apparently unrelated coincidence, this forum has become a much mellower and happier place since I stopped having to read every post...

[ERD50]

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Originally Posted by clifp On of the difficult things in setting up pension for heroic cats, is in calculating how many of their 9 lives were lost in the heroic action.

Do pension benefits promised to a cat during one life carry over to the next life? I thought pensions were analogous to an annuity for 'life' - singular. Wouldn't the cat need to negotiate a new pension for this new life?

Hmmm, that brings up an interesting philosophical question for those who believe in reincarnation. Should those people be able to ask for a pension for 'lives' (plural)? Since reincarnation is often based on religious beliefs, it may be considered discriminatory to reject these claims.

Come to think of it, those cats probably have a Union strong enough to get pensions for multiple lives. They seem to get very good compensation and medical for very little work.

-ERD50

[clifp]

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Originally Posted by ERD50 Do pension benefits promised to a cat during one life carry over to the next life? I thought pensions were analogous to an annuity for 'life' - singular. Wouldn't the cat need to negotiate a new pension for this new life? Hmmm, that brings up an interesting philosophical question for those who believe in reincarnation. Should those people be able to ask for a pension for 'lives' (plural)? Since reincarnation is often based on religious beliefs, it may be considered discriminatory to reject these claims. Come to think of it, those cats probably have a Union strong enough to get pensions for multiple lives. They seem to get very good compensation and medical for very little work. -ERD50

I can always count on you to ask interesting question.

Believe it or not I've actually thought about reincarnation a fair amount. The traditional afterlife stuff never had much of an appeal, but reincarnation always intrigued me.

My top choice has always been to come back as one of my sister's impossible spoiled house cats, my second choice is a beautiful girl in some place like Italy, Brazil, or parts of the US. Now since I am starting out at pretty cushy position 50 year old retiree living in Hawaii, you can see that laziness is high on my priority list.

I have never really study the philosophy behind reincarnation but my understanding is your are suppose prove your worthiness at each level. So at first guess, I think it would be cheating to start of life with a pension, even a lousy non-cola'ed private pension, and of course a public pension, would be worse than taking steroids...