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Old 08-19-2007, 07:03 AM   #61
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None, Dan. But I tried "some of that wet imported sh*t from the ship that capsized off Key West"
I miss Shel Siverstein...
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Old 08-20-2007, 02:05 PM   #62
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I miss Shel Siverstein...
Very good! I'm impressed! I didn't think anybody here'd get that one.
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Old 08-20-2007, 02:18 PM   #63
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Old 08-20-2007, 02:27 PM   #64
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Old 08-26-2007, 05:16 AM   #65
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Andy,

I think you should relax the time limit to edit further. Bottom line is that the vast majority of people do not abuse that situation but have legitimate reasons to edit posts from time to time.

The few people that have deleted their posts does not seem like a good excuse.

If you want to lock it down after a month or some (longer period), that might strike a balance that is reasonable... 2 or 3 hours is not long enough. Too restrictive.

It comes down to one point. You are restricting the many because of a couple of people that did something that got you upset.


Another bone to pick. I do not appreciate you putting google analytics on the site to harvest info... Seems like a bit of a privacy issue.

I recognize that you have an expense that you need to take care of, but if you are doing it at the expense of my privacy. I think I will stop using the service.
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:53 PM   #66
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The few people that have deleted their posts does not seem like a good excuse.
If you want to lock it down after a month or some (longer period), that might strike a balance that is reasonable... 2 or 3 hours is not long enough. Too restrictive.
It comes down to one point. You are restricting the many because of a couple of people that did something that got you upset.
I'm no shill, but the "no deletion" policy was put in place after OldAgePensioner, and later Cut-Throat, deleted many of their posts and screwed up dozens of threads. This was before Andy's time and it wasn't his decision.

So yeah, the many are being punished for the actions of a few. But I see this board as a knowledge/reference archive as well as a recreational chat facility. Once you post it you lose control of it.

If you can't live with those rules then you should find a board you like better or start one of your own.
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Old 08-27-2007, 02:31 AM   #67
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If you can't live with those rules then you should find a board you like better or start one of your own.

I posted this now because I ran into several situations (on recently) where I needed to make a change (clarification) after 2.5 hours. I have had it happen several times.

Is that OK with you. Or should I check with you to get permission the next time?

You seem to be very passionate (note the kind term) about this issue. To the point that your emotions override decorum and what runs out of your mouth... in this case off your fingers. Seems a bit like a defensive reaction from someone who had a heavy hand in making a poor (and unpopular) decision.

Those deleted posts could probably be recovered if any normal procedures are in place. There are other ways to deal with the potential problem and maintain flexibility... It would just take little planning and work.
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Old 08-27-2007, 07:45 AM   #68
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I posted this now because I ran into several situations (on recently) where I needed to make a change (clarification) after 2.5 hours. I have had it happen several times.
Couldn't you just make a new, updated post with the clarification in it? That's worked for me several times, and I'm sure for others also. It seems to me that that is much simpler, than to expect Andy or the Mods to sort through a bunch of deletions/corrections (if they are available to sort through) and decide what should be allowed or disallowed. Of course, this is just one person's opinion.
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:10 AM   #69
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Those deleted posts could probably be recovered if any normal procedures are in place.
Bold words and I'm a bit skeptical of that assertion after two server changes, but I'll defer to the guys who run the system.

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There are other ways to deal with the potential problem and maintain flexibility... It would just take little planning and work.
I'm no more enthusiastic about keeping the policy than you are about attacking it. I suspect that if "planning" and "work" were all that were involved then a solution would've presented itself by now, but I'm open to ideas that'll solve most our problems and I'm just as subject to policy decisions as you are.

If you have any specific constructive suggestions for a better policy then spit 'em out...
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:20 AM   #70
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I generally lean in the direction of anarchy; yes, that often leads to chaos. What's the saying? Give 'em enough rope...

How about: Think before you post; i.e. maybe that rant isn't really a good idea. And you can always post a second time to expound/clarify/recant...
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:53 AM   #71
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I posted this now because I ran into several situations (on recently) where I needed to make a change (clarification) after 2.5 hours. I have had it happen several times.
That is strange, we changed the settings from 15 minutes to 6 hours a couple months back.

Also, please understand that I hear you all and understand the issue. My goal is to develop a solution that will address the abuses that can occur so the limit can be increased. This will be kind of like the way wikis work where old versions of posts are kept in case we need to go back and see if someone is abusing the system.
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Old 08-27-2007, 05:17 PM   #72
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That is strange, we changed the settings from 15 minutes to 6 hours a couple months back.

Also, please understand that I hear you all and understand the issue. My goal is to develop a solution that will address the abuses that can occur so the limit can be increased. This will be kind of like the way wikis work where old versions of posts are kept in case we need to go back and see if someone is abusing the system.
My 2.5 hour comment apparently is incorrect if you set it to 6 hours. But the time-frame is still a little short. I was thinking of allowing a more liberal amount of time... It is about convenience as much as anything.

The Wiki model might work... but the DB could bloat. Plus, the forum software and its DB would need to be designed to handle it. The software may have limited capabilities in that area.

What is your primary concern? It is to save every bit of information that anyone ever enters or is the concern more around someone deleting all of their posts?

If the types of events you are concerned about are few and far between (like someone deleting all of their posts) and the software and DB require major revisions to enable tracking, it might not make sense to build in complex features. Since people require an account, they are limited to their personal entries... not broad deletions. This means the system is not render useless... and you have some time to resolve it... (people can continue to use the system). As long as you are taking regular backups you should be able to recover the data removed.

You would need some knowledge and skill... but you might be able to recover cut-throats posts by loading a backup and using basic SQL, if you know the data structure.

There are tools that help to deal with synchronizing data and the data structure itself for that matter. These are DBA and Software Developer tools.

Most of this Open Source software that uses PHP also uses a MYSQL DB. I would assume this is the case here.

Take a look at this. If you ever have a bad event, you should be able to use a tool like this to recover. But again, this would assume you have some technical skills.


Look at this tool. MySQL GUI Tools, MySQL Monitor and Advisor, MySQL Performance Tuning and Optimization

Webyog FAQ - What is the difference between MySQL server replication and SQLyog synchronization?
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:28 PM   #73
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Thanks for the input. A few comments:
  • The software running this site is not open source. It's a commercial forum software product
  • Saving versions of posts will add little to the database size
  • I understand how to restore posts from backups. I have some DBA resources available, would you like to pay their bill each time we have an episode?
  • Thanks for posting the links, I will check them out when I am not at the airport.
As I have stated, I will find a solution. Thanks for your patience (ie let it rest) until I can roll out a solution.
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:31 PM   #74
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If the types of events you are concerned about are few and far between (like someone deleting all of their posts) and the software and DB require major revisions to enable tracking, it might not make sense to build in complex features. Since people require an account, they are limited to their personal entries... not broad deletions. This means the system is not render useless... and you have some time to resolve it... (people can continue to use the system). As long as you are taking regular backups you should be able to recover the data removed.
Well, yes, but there are easy ways and hard ways of doing things. I've seen the havoc that can be caused by one person going back and deleting all her posts (all 400 of them) in one forum in a temporary fit of rage/depression/insanity/whatever. The only thing that stopped her doing likewise on our forum was our time limit (which is set a bit longer than the one here because we have a more international membership); she managed to delete three posts, not the 500 or so that she could have deleted. Having the time limit in place was a much easier way of dealing with things than having to reconsititute goodness knows how many threads from a cached database.
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