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Old 12-18-2008, 10:29 AM   #61
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I think the soapbox was perfect. All the political stuff went into it and people finally got trained to do so. Now its going to be spewed all over the boards.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:01 AM   #62
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I think the soapbox was perfect. All the political stuff went into it and people finally got trained to do so. Now its going to be spewed all over the boards.
I disagree; I think it had already infected both FIRE AND MONEY and OTHER TOPICS, and that the usual suspects were basically given free reign.

And exactly why is it okay for NML to use "that word", when it wasn't okay in my post?
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:13 AM   #63
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Nobody complained or noticed?
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:32 PM   #64
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I disagree; I think it had already infected both FIRE AND MONEY and OTHER TOPICS, and that the usual suspects were basically given free reign.

And exactly why is it okay for NML to use "that word", when it wasn't okay in my post?
My apologies. I shall edit it.
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Old 12-19-2008, 05:52 AM   #65
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keep in mind the focus of this board. It's about early retirement. It's not about full contact politics; there are plenty of other places to go if you simply want to argue politics. In fact, i think your comment is evidence as to *why* generic political discussion needs the kibosh. It's because many people who enjoy full-contact politics are incapable of keeping it civil ("polite" and "subtle" to use your words) that we felt this is necessary.

You say we "can't be polite... With people who are wrong." two problems here: First. You can be polite with people who are "wrong"; it is possible to disagree with someone without thinking they are evil or stupid. And if you can't, that's a clear violation of the terms of service and the community rules. That's one of the things that personally depresses me about political discussion; sometimes it seems like people can't accept that intelligent and well-meaning people can possibly be "on the other side."

the second problem is that there isn't usually a "right" and a "wrong." there are merely two different perspectives. Okay, in extreme cases there may be right and wrong, but that's not the norm.

I hate to say it in some sense, but in my opinion what you said is exactly *why* we need to get rid of the soap box as we know it. Too much allowance on politics tends to create an us-versus-them attitude that can harm the sense of community and common goal that should bring us together. This forum is about early retirement. When political issues relate to fire, respectful and on-topic discussion of the political aspects is acceptable. When it bursts into flames, and when it has nothing to do with fire, it just divides us and makes life miserable. Who wants that?
IT WAS A JOKE!!! Of course we can be polite and of course there's rarely a "right" and a "wrong" - sorry to anyone who thought it was serious.
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:50 AM   #66
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IT WAS A JOKE!!! Of course we can be polite and of course there's rarely a "right" and a "wrong" - sorry to anyone who thought it was serious.
Thank you SO MUCH for explaining! I took it the other way, too, and was puzzled as it didn't like something the Midpack we all know would say.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:05 AM   #67
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I don't mind heated discussions and we aren't always going to be polite. But snarky sarcasm is a big problem in political discussions. Maybe it is because the same people tend to participate and they become frustrated with each other because minds rarely change.

Ha, I don't see us as becoming a bunch of namby pambies. We still will argue about health care, tin foil hats, how cars are sold.

Sam, you pointed out some issues/fine lines. We will feel our way out as we go. If anyone questions a topic you can always pm a mod or admin and get some feedback.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:15 AM   #68
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I think that the tone that would best serve the board is the US Senate where our Senators agree to disagree but are (usually) very congenial.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:43 AM   #69
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Ha, I don't see us as becoming a bunch of namby pambies. We still will argue about health care, tin foil hats, how cars are sold.
Martha, I think you will be proven right. I don't really like dumb arguments either, but they don't bother me. I either contribute a little, or walk on by.

But I do think that separating politics from the rest of life is more or less impossible. Politics is trying to create alliances to get more of what your group wants, at the expense of what the other group wants. This is pretty much life's core issue, outside of the spiritual and very personal. An interest in politics is necessary for active investment management.

Last night I saw a very good 1 1/2 hour PBS piece on the life and career of Lee Atwater. In spite of the basically disapproving stance taken "Wasn't he a bad thing for American politics?", it was interesting and Lee as a man was attractive in that special way of a typically conflicted and messed up and ironic Southern man. I absolutely love thinking and talking about people and things like this. I have one friend with the interest, smarts, education and freedom of mind for this kind of discussion. He is a retired professor. He lives in another Puget Sound City and we meet once a month, but I would sure enjoy more. I think many people here have the capacity for this kind of discussion too.

But I understand your and the other mods points.

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Old 12-19-2008, 09:19 AM   #70
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I think that the tone that would best serve the board is the US Senate where our Senators agree to disagree but are (usually) very congenial.
I agree. And I think political discussions "work" better here (even if segregated into the Soapbox) than anywhere else I've seen on the net. For the most part, if you go to a dedicated political web site/discussion board, the personalities of the other posters never develop beyond two-dimensional political cartoon characterizations. Its easy to name-call and hard to have a meaningful discussion when everyone is just a political hack. Here, we get to know each other a little bit, and we depend on each other for advice, info, and maybe even occasional emotional support for all kinds of things--recipes, leaky roofs, cranky kids, asset allocation, wedding planning, etc. Senators (usually) maintain a collegial tone with each other for two reasons: They never know who's help they might need in the future, and because they have often formed relationships, even across the aisle, that make it less likely that they'll see their political adversary as an idiot worthy of a put-down. I think the same applies here--except for the occasional drive-by poster or those who ONLY talk politics, the folks here do tend to be respectful of each other while disagreeing with the points made. That's why I'll miss the exchange of political views (usually polite, well reasoned, and sometimes with appropriate supporting info) that I get here and nowhere else. As a practical matter, as Ha points out, it is also often difficult to separate politics from the rest of our lives. The Soapbox at least let folks self-segregate topics that might be more heavily partisan.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:21 AM   #71
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Is shoe-throwing allowed?
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:27 AM   #72
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Is shoe-throwing allowed?
Only if there is no disclosure of whether they were dodged by moving left or right....
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:38 AM   #73
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Is shoe-throwing allowed?

Yes. Please throw these directly at me. Size 11, black. Mephistop Klara - WOMEN'S BOOTS

Aim carefully and try not to scratch them.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:43 AM   #74
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Yes. Please throw these directly at me. Size 11, black. Mephistop Klara - WOMEN'S BOOTS

Aim carefully and try not to scratch them.


We can really see into your sole, Janet--

New only, or are gently worn boots all right?
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:48 AM   #75
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I have a good friend who has completely stopped communicating with me since right before the election. ...Apparently the fact that I simply did not join in the bashing but continued talking about something nonpolitical with another acquaintance was enough for her to write me off.
This happened to me with 2 acquaintances.
I listened politely to their pitch to get me to vote "their way", but told them both I was apolitical with friends, as a rule. I would not engage.
I believe in the curtain at the polling places - voting is private as a personal freedom of choice.
I guess that was too radical.
Oh well...
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:53 AM   #76
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Yes. Please throw these directly at me. Size 11, black. Mephistop Klara - WOMEN'S BOOTS

Aim carefully and try not to scratch them.
OK, as long as I don't get the boot, or have you think I'm a heel. Or, your arch enemy.
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:02 AM   #77
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Yes. Please throw these directly at me. Size 11, black. Mephistop Klara - WOMEN'S BOOTS

Aim carefully and try not to scratch them.
Free Fedex, how frugal. Those boots were made for walking.
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:06 AM   #78
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$395 for those boots?? Janet, I'm just not in step with that price.
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:08 AM   #79
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Maybe Janet's tea was laced with something.
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:16 AM   #80
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No, Rich, I don't think so.

I think Janet isn't in step with Mephisto prices either, but she's asking if you must throw shoes, make sure you throw premium brand!

-- Rita
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what % of members have turned off the Soap Box entirely? ladelfina Forum Admin 86 09-14-2008 07:31 AM

 

 
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