Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Portfolio end of year balance
Old 07-28-2006, 11:22 AM   #1
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2
Portfolio end of year balance

Are the end of year portfolio balances in FIRECalc results expressed in today's dollars, or future dollars? I've tried searching for a clarification, but don't find anything.* I'm guessing they are today's dollars, but I would like to confirm that.* Thanks in advance!
ldc is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Portfolio end of year balance
Old 07-28-2006, 11:56 AM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Portfolio end of year balance

They are in "today's" dollars for the end of each period.* *For example, for the 30-year sequence 1901-1930, the ending balance is in 1930 dollars.

The average of all the ending balances for each sequence is given at the end of the run.* *That number is fairly meaningless since inflation was different in each period, but it can be used as a relative measure for different runs.* *(I.e., you can't interpret the number in today's dollars or any other dollars for that matter.)
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Portfolio end of year balance
Old 07-30-2006, 07:09 AM   #3
Early-Retirement.org Founder
Developer of FIRECalc
dory36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,840
Re: Portfolio end of year balance

Uhhh... no, the ending portfolio balance is expressed in terms of the dollars as of the beginning of the retirement, not the end.

So in your example, the 1930 ending portfolio balance is expressed in 1901 dollars.

The reason for this is simply that the only thing meaningful to someone contemplating retirement is the current spending power of their assets. It only makes sense to relate all future results to the information known to the retiree prior to his decision.

So, the 1901 retiree, with a crystal ball, would know that his spending ability would be unchanged through 1930, and would also know how big a party that his survivors could have at the end.

The previous version of FIRECalc gave terminal portfolio balances in unadjusted dollars. This was not very useful, because it really didn't tell someone thinking of retiring what their ending portfolio was really worth. That's why in the revision the dollars were all adjusted to the dollar value as of the time of retirement.

Again, the philosophy is to work with what is known just before retirement, and not to report values that have no meaning without adjustments.

This certainly isn't perfect, because someone retiring on 40,000 a year in 1915 is certainly living a vastly different lifestyle than someone retiring on 40,000 in 2006.

However, if the 1915 retiree would wind up with, say, 400,000 at the end, he would reasonably expect to be able to spend 10 times his normal annual spending on his departure party at that point, regardless of the inflation during the previous years. The same would be true for the 2006 retiree.

Hope this clarifies --

dory36
__________________
Often uninformed, seldom undecided.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Mark Twain
dory36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Portfolio end of year balance
Old 07-30-2006, 08:37 AM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
Rich_by_the_Bay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 8,827
Re: Portfolio end of year balance

I mistakenly thought it was the balance at the end of the designated retirement period (e.g. 35 years). The number you might use, for example, to see what your estate would be for inheritance purposes.

Sounds like your assumptions are reasonable, Dory. Maybe just a little wordsmithing of the explanatory text would do the trick.

Another miniscule suggestion: the setting for the "save as link" checkbox is not passed to the link it self, so you have to keep rechecking it under each new saved scenario. Thanks.
__________________
Rich
San Francisco Area
ESR'd March 2010. FIRE'd January 2011.

As if you didn't know..If the above message contains medical content, it's NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient. Don't rely on it for any purpose. Consult your own doctor for all medical advice.
Rich_by_the_Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Portfolio end of year balance
Old 07-30-2006, 10:46 AM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: Portfolio end of year balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
I mistakenly thought it was the balance at the end of the designated retirement period (e.g. 35 years). The number you might use, for example, to see what your estate would be for inheritance purposes.

. . .
If you want to make sure you leave today's equivalent of $1M, for example, to your heirs, you can run FIRECALC and include a 1-time $1M expense in the final year of the simulated sequence. This will cause FIRECALC to subtract an inflation adjusted $1M from the portfolio in the final year of the simulation. This, of course, reduces your survivability and SWR. The result tells you something about your SWR and/or required initial portfolio amount if you want to leave your heirs something.
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Portfolio end of year balance
Old 07-30-2006, 11:27 AM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Portfolio end of year balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by dory36
The previous version of FIRECalc gave terminal portfolio balances in unadjusted dollars.
Ugh. I was confused by your use of the term "inflation adjusted." An adjustment can be either up or down. For example, the principal value of TIPS get an inflation adjustment every six months.

I wonder if there's a better term. How about "all values are in terms of the dollars as of the beginning of the retirement period."
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Portfolio end of year balance
Old 07-31-2006, 03:39 AM   #7
Early-Retirement.org Founder
Developer of FIRECalc
dory36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,840
Re: Portfolio end of year balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
Another miniscule suggestion: the setting for the "save as link" checkbox is not passed to the link it self, so you have to keep rechecking it under each new saved scenario. Thanks.
Better -- I just took that option out altogether, and instead make the link always available, in the standard "show success rate" processing. (For reasons that have only to do with how I coded things, it would be a lot more work to make the link available with the other options, so that will have to wait...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
I wonder if there's a better term. How about "all values are in terms of the dollars as of the beginning of the retirement period."
Good idea - done!

dory36, whose &^%* dog decided I should get up early this morning...
__________________
Often uninformed, seldom undecided.

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. Mark Twain
dory36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Decided..not waiting til year end! Donzo Hi, I am... 7 06-19-2006 05:35 PM
Year End 2005 Asset Allocations haha FIRE and Money 41 01-04-2006 01:35 AM
FIREcalc Question tozz FIRE and Money 10 07-23-2005 05:28 AM
Ideas, suggestions on portfolio after retiring Toejam Other topics 19 02-01-2004 09:38 AM
New version of FIRECalc for testing dory36 FIRE and Money 24 11-25-2002 07:12 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:02 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.