What grade would you give a financial "guru"?

[flintnational]

Most of us are exposed to a number of financial "gurus". In your opinion, how good is their advice?

Pick a financial "guru" and provide them a letter grade A - F. It can be a radio or TV personality, book or blog author, famous investor or any other person that holds themselves out to be a financial expert. Please let us know why you gave them the selected grade and what you like/dislike about their advice.

I'll start with an example.

Dave Ramsey B+

IMHO, Dave provides good LBYM advice but his investing advice is single note and suspect. "Invest in good growth stock mutual funds". He routinely mentions a 12% return.

[Sojourner]

I don't tend to listen to these mass-market financial advisers, as pretty much everything they say I've heard a thousand times before. And they tailor their messages to people who are fairly clueless about personal finance and investing, which for me is boring and unhelpful.

But, since you asked, I'll so with Suze Orman. I give her a C. On the plus side, she usually gives reasonably good advice from what little I've heard. However, I find her to be shrill, overly simplistic in her advice, and melodramatic in her presentation.

[Blue Collar Guy]

John Bogle A+

[flintnational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourner I don't tend to listen to these mass-market financial advisers, as pretty much everything they say I've heard a thousand times before. And they tailor their messages to people who are fairly clueless about personal finance and investing, which for me is boring and unhelpful. But, since you asked, I'll so with Suze Orman. I give her a C. On the plus side, she usually gives reasonably good advice from what little I've heard. However, I find her to be shrill, overly simplistic in her advice, and melodramatic in her presentation.

I was channel surfing this morning and Suze was on PBS. She is the reason I thought of the thread. I started to use her as my example and would haven given her about the same grade.

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Collar Guy John Bogle A+

+1
I would also give Jason Zweig an A.
And although I haven't seen his writing in many years, I also had a high opinion of Andrew Tobias, so he gets an A also.

[flintnational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister +1 I would also give Jason Zweig an A. And although I haven't seen his writing in many years, I also had a high opinion of Andrew Tobias, so he gets an A also.

This spring I reread Ben Graham's Intelligent Investor as edited by Jason Zwieg. I enjoyed Zweig's chapter summaries as much as Graham's original text. Definitely an "A" to both.

[Mdlerth]

Peter Lynch gets an A. He made a bunch of money, way more than he ever thought he would, and retired early.

[flintnational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdlerth Peter Lynch gets an A. He made a bunch of money, way more than he ever thought he would, and retired early.

I have wondered if Lynch thought active might out perform for a time, but would eventually revert to the mean (especially when fund size grows). Did he choose to get out with a good track record or did he just FIRE. I like to think he of him as an early retiree!

[ERD50]

Dave Ramsey: D- ( he distorts a lot of things to fit his view and his audience which are not helpful and can be hurting them,and I can't respect that, even though some of what he says is pretty good).

Bottom line, don't go looking for guru's. They might be wearing a poncho from Sears.

For the "experts" that matter to me, I won't give them a grade at all for their "advice", because that's not what I'm interested in. But there are several I will give an A+ for providing meaningful and helpful information.

For information that I can use, I'll give the aforementioned John Bogle an A+, as well as Burton G. Malkiel ("A Random Walk Down Wall Street" author), and an A- for Bob Brinker back in the 90's (haven't listened to him much for years though), but he reinforced low cost broad-based index funds and mostly buy & hold (though ironically, he did sell a newsletter called "The Market Timer"!).

Add Peter L. Bernstein to that, (Author - Against the Gods: The Remarkable Story of Risk). And Taleb for the "Black Swan" books.

And most importantly, I'll give myself a B+ for doing a decent job of acting on that information, and for being honest with myself and not being afraid to say "I don't know".

-ERD50

[bclover]

I give them all a solid C. I think of them as purely entertainment. I hate Dave ramsey with the heat of 10 suns and the only other one I can think of is Suzy Orman who I don't know why but her voice puts me to sleep. seriously 10 mins into watching her show and I'm out.

[ERD50]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclover I give them all a solid C. I think of them as purely entertainment. I hate Dave ramsey with the heat of 10 suns and the only other one I can think of is Suzy Orman who I don't know why but her voice puts me to sleep. seriously 10 mins into watching her show and I'm out.

Well that makes my "D-" sound pretty tame!

-ERD50

[flintnational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 Dave Ramsey: D- ( he distorts a lot of things to fit his view and his audience which are not helpful and can be hurting them,and I can't respect that, even though some of what he says is pretty good). Bottom line, don't go looking for guru's. They might be wearing a poncho from Sears. For the "experts" that matter to me, I won't give them a grade at all for their "advice", because that's not what I'm interested in. But there are several I will give an A+ for providing meaningful and helpful information. For information that I can use, I'll give the aforementioned John Bogle an A+, as well as Burton G. Malkiel ("A Random Walk Down Wall Street" author), and an A- for Bob Brinker back in the 90's (haven't listened to him much for years though), but he reinforced low cost broad-based index funds and mostly buy & hold (though ironically, he did sell a newsletter called "The Market Timer"!). Add Peter L. Bernstein to that, (Author - Against the Gods: The Remarkable Story of Risk). And Taleb for the "Black Swan" books. And most importantly, I'll give myself a B+ for doing a decent job of acting on that information, and for being honest with myself and not being afraid to say "I don't know". -ERD50

The only tweak I have made to my asset allocation in several years was based on advice by Malkiel. I moved a small portion of my international to emerging markets. At the time, he was suggesting EM stocks were a relative bargain. I also like Taleb's writings. Like W. Bernstein, he reminds us that your plans can only be so certain.100% forecast success is probably to much to ask.

[flintnational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclover I give them all a solid C. I think of them as purely entertainment. I hate Dave ramsey with the heat of 10 suns and the only other one I can think of is Suzy Orman who I don't know why but her voice puts me to sleep. seriously 10 mins into watching her show and I'm out.

You are making me rethink my Ramsey grade! I can listen to Dave but I can't even seem to endure Suzy.

[CaliKid]

I am not a Dave Ramsey fan perse but his basic ideas are really great for young people getting started (or older people who never got their act straight). Get out of debt, have emergency fund, save money for retirement. Plus he seems to break it down into digestible pieces. I listen occasionally and think of so many people (like my MIL) who could sure be well served listening to his advice.

[rodi]

Dave Ramsey and Suzy Orman suck at investing advice... but they are great at preaching spending reduction and living within one's means... That message (LBYM) is very important to many people. So I'd give them an F for investing advice - but a B for lifestyle advice.

Bogle is obviously good at investing advice (index funds, etc.)

I liked books by Zellinski (retire happy wild and free) and Andrew Hallam (millionaire teacher) for giving the pros of spending less, saving more, and getting the freedom you desire.

[Another Reader]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodi Dave Ramsey and Suzy Orman suck at investing advice... but they are great at preaching spending reduction and living within one's means... That message (LBYM) is very important to many people. So I'd give them an F for investing advice - but a B for lifestyle advice. Bogle is obviously good at investing advice (index funds, etc.) I liked books by Zellinski (retire happy wild and free) and Andrew Hallam (millionaire teacher) for giving the pros of spending less, saving more, and getting the freedom you desire.

Suzi is dangerous with some of the really stupid things she has said over the years. Dave gets an A for motivating people to get out of debt and an F for investment advice. That would average out to a C, but an F in one area means you are held back to take the class over.

[flintnational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodi Dave Ramsey and Suzy Orman suck at investing advice... but they are great at preaching spending reduction and living within one's means... That message (LBYM) is very important to many people. So I'd give them an F for investing advice - but a B for lifestyle advice. Bogle is obviously good at investing advice (index funds, etc.) I liked books by Zellinski (retire happy wild and free) and Andrew Hallam (millionaire teacher) for giving the pros of spending less, saving more, and getting the freedom you desire.

Rodi, thanks. I have not read either of the books you mentioned. I will check into them. Hopefully they are at the local library.

[pacergal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodi Dave Ramsey and Suzy Orman suck at investing advice... but they are great at preaching spending reduction and living within one's means... That message (LBYM) is very important to many people. So I'd give them an F for investing advice - but a B for lifestyle advice. Bogle is obviously good at investing advice (index funds, etc.) I liked books by Zellinski (retire happy wild and free) and Andrew Hallam (millionaire teacher) for giving the pros of spending less, saving more, and getting the freedom you desire.

+1

Several years ago, watching Suzy Orman show, especially the "can I retire" segment , is what got me thinking of actually being able to retire earlier than 65, and started me on my road for more information.
The Zellinski and Hallam books are great, same with John Bogle.
Then, I found this site, and I was well on my way.
Everyone here has something of value to add to my arsenal!

[DrRoy]

Quote:

I would give Jason Zweig an A.

+1. I love his book Your Money and Your Brain.

[Midpack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintnational I have wondered if Lynch thought active might out perform for a time, but would eventually revert to the mean (especially when fund size grows). Did he choose to get out with a good track record or did he just FIRE. I like to think he of him as an early retiree!

I was a Lynch fan back in his "invest in what you know" heyday. IIRC his success became impossible to sustain because Magellan became so large they couldn't find enough "ten baggers" to sustain above market beating returns. He, and his successor (Vinik), both wrote about how unwieldy Magellan became - no good deed goes unpunished. IIRC Lynch left when high returns became impossible and to spend more time with his young family once he had more money than he knew what to do with (he turned to philanthropy).

Magellan's AUM is a fraction of what it once was...