Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
What grade would you give a financial "guru"?
Old 08-06-2017, 08:23 AM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
flintnational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta Suburb
Posts: 1,350
What grade would you give a financial "guru"?

Most of us are exposed to a number of financial "gurus". In your opinion, how good is their advice?

Pick a financial "guru" and provide them a letter grade A - F. It can be a radio or TV personality, book or blog author, famous investor or any other person that holds themselves out to be a financial expert. Please let us know why you gave them the selected grade and what you like/dislike about their advice.

I'll start with an example.

Dave Ramsey B+

IMHO, Dave provides good LBYM advice but his investing advice is single note and suspect. "Invest in good growth stock mutual funds". He routinely mentions a 12% return.
__________________

flintnational is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-06-2017, 08:46 AM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Sojourner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,079
I don't tend to listen to these mass-market financial advisers, as pretty much everything they say I've heard a thousand times before. And they tailor their messages to people who are fairly clueless about personal finance and investing, which for me is boring and unhelpful.

But, since you asked, I'll so with Suze Orman. I give her a C. On the plus side, she usually gives reasonably good advice from what little I've heard. However, I find her to be shrill, overly simplistic in her advice, and melodramatic in her presentation.
__________________

Sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 08:52 AM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,838
John Bogle A+
__________________
Withdrawal Rate currently zero, Pension 137 % of our spending, Wasted 5 years of my prime working extra for a safe withdrawal rate. I can live like a King for a year, or a Prince for the rest of my life. I will stay on topic, I will stay on topic, I will stay on topic
Blue Collar Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 09:03 AM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
flintnational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta Suburb
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
I don't tend to listen to these mass-market financial advisers, as pretty much everything they say I've heard a thousand times before. And they tailor their messages to people who are fairly clueless about personal finance and investing, which for me is boring and unhelpful.

But, since you asked, I'll so with Suze Orman. I give her a C. On the plus side, she usually gives reasonably good advice from what little I've heard. However, I find her to be shrill, overly simplistic in her advice, and melodramatic in her presentation.
I was channel surfing this morning and Suze was on PBS. She is the reason I thought of the thread. I started to use her as my example and would haven given her about the same grade.
flintnational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 09:04 AM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Flyover country
Posts: 13,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Collar Guy View Post
John Bogle A+
+1
I would also give Jason Zweig an A.
And although I haven't seen his writing in many years, I also had a high opinion of Andrew Tobias, so he gets an A also.
__________________
I thought growing old would take longer.
braumeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 09:15 AM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
flintnational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta Suburb
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
+1
I would also give Jason Zweig an A.
And although I haven't seen his writing in many years, I also had a high opinion of Andrew Tobias, so he gets an A also.
This spring I reread Ben Graham's Intelligent Investor as edited by Jason Zwieg. I enjoyed Zweig's chapter summaries as much as Graham's original text. Definitely an "A" to both.
flintnational is offline   Reply With Quote
Poster child for ER
Old 08-06-2017, 09:20 AM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Mdlerth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,167
Poster child for ER

Peter Lynch gets an A. He made a bunch of money, way more than he ever thought he would, and retired early.
__________________
Paying it forward is the best investment.
Mdlerth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 09:32 AM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
flintnational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta Suburb
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdlerth View Post
Peter Lynch gets an A. He made a bunch of money, way more than he ever thought he would, and retired early.
I have wondered if Lynch thought active might out perform for a time, but would eventually revert to the mean (especially when fund size grows). Did he choose to get out with a good track record or did he just FIRE. I like to think he of him as an early retiree!
flintnational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 09:33 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 21,512
Dave Ramsey: D- ( he distorts a lot of things to fit his view and his audience which are not helpful and can be hurting them,and I can't respect that, even though some of what he says is pretty good).

Bottom line, don't go looking for guru's. They might be wearing a poncho from Sears.

For the "experts" that matter to me, I won't give them a grade at all for their "advice", because that's not what I'm interested in. But there are several I will give an A+ for providing meaningful and helpful information.

For information that I can use, I'll give the aforementioned John Bogle an A+, as well as Burton G. Malkiel ("A Random Walk Down Wall Street" author), and an A- for Bob Brinker back in the 90's (haven't listened to him much for years though), but he reinforced low cost broad-based index funds and mostly buy & hold (though ironically, he did sell a newsletter called "The Market Timer"!).

Add Peter L. Bernstein to that, (Author - Against the Gods: The Remarkable Story of Risk). And Taleb for the "Black Swan" books.

And most importantly, I'll give myself a B+ for doing a decent job of acting on that information, and for being honest with myself and not being afraid to say "I don't know".

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 09:44 AM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: philly
Posts: 1,109
I give them all a solid C. I think of them as purely entertainment. I hate Dave ramsey with the heat of 10 suns and the only other one I can think of is Suzy Orman who I don't know why but her voice puts me to sleep. seriously 10 mins into watching her show and I'm out.
__________________
My darling girl, when are you going to realize that being "normal" is not necessarily a virtue? it sometimes rather denotes a lack of courage~Aunt Francis
bclover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 09:58 AM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 21,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by bclover View Post
I give them all a solid C. I think of them as purely entertainment. I hate Dave ramsey with the heat of 10 suns and the only other one I can think of is Suzy Orman who I don't know why but her voice puts me to sleep. seriously 10 mins into watching her show and I'm out.

Well that makes my "D-" sound pretty tame!

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 09:58 AM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
flintnational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta Suburb
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Dave Ramsey: D- ( he distorts a lot of things to fit his view and his audience which are not helpful and can be hurting them,and I can't respect that, even though some of what he says is pretty good).

Bottom line, don't go looking for guru's. They might be wearing a poncho from Sears.

For the "experts" that matter to me, I won't give them a grade at all for their "advice", because that's not what I'm interested in. But there are several I will give an A+ for providing meaningful and helpful information.

For information that I can use, I'll give the aforementioned John Bogle an A+, as well as Burton G. Malkiel ("A Random Walk Down Wall Street" author), and an A- for Bob Brinker back in the 90's (haven't listened to him much for years though), but he reinforced low cost broad-based index funds and mostly buy & hold (though ironically, he did sell a newsletter called "The Market Timer"!).

Add Peter L. Bernstein to that, (Author - Against the Gods: The Remarkable Story of Risk). And Taleb for the "Black Swan" books.

And most importantly, I'll give myself a B+ for doing a decent job of acting on that information, and for being honest with myself and not being afraid to say "I don't know".

-ERD50
The only tweak I have made to my asset allocation in several years was based on advice by Malkiel. I moved a small portion of my international to emerging markets. At the time, he was suggesting EM stocks were a relative bargain. I also like Taleb's writings. Like W. Bernstein, he reminds us that your plans can only be so certain.100% forecast success is probably to much to ask.
flintnational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 10:09 AM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
flintnational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta Suburb
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by bclover View Post
I give them all a solid C. I think of them as purely entertainment. I hate Dave ramsey with the heat of 10 suns and the only other one I can think of is Suzy Orman who I don't know why but her voice puts me to sleep. seriously 10 mins into watching her show and I'm out.
You are making me rethink my Ramsey grade! I can listen to Dave but I can't even seem to endure Suzy.
flintnational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 10:24 AM   #14
Full time employment: Posting here.
CaliKid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cali
Posts: 910
I am not a Dave Ramsey fan perse but his basic ideas are really great for young people getting started (or older people who never got their act straight). Get out of debt, have emergency fund, save money for retirement. Plus he seems to break it down into digestible pieces. I listen occasionally and think of so many people (like my MIL) who could sure be well served listening to his advice.
__________________
______________________
Hoping to get out around September 1, 2022... I hope, I hope, I hope. Until then off to work I go....
CaliKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 11:07 AM   #15
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 10,126
Dave Ramsey and Suzy Orman suck at investing advice... but they are great at preaching spending reduction and living within one's means... That message (LBYM) is very important to many people. So I'd give them an F for investing advice - but a B for lifestyle advice.

Bogle is obviously good at investing advice (index funds, etc.)

I liked books by Zellinski (retire happy wild and free) and Andrew Hallam (millionaire teacher) for giving the pros of spending less, saving more, and getting the freedom you desire.
__________________
Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 7%, rental income 18%
rodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 11:12 AM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi View Post
Dave Ramsey and Suzy Orman suck at investing advice... but they are great at preaching spending reduction and living within one's means... That message (LBYM) is very important to many people. So I'd give them an F for investing advice - but a B for lifestyle advice.

Bogle is obviously good at investing advice (index funds, etc.)

I liked books by Zellinski (retire happy wild and free) and Andrew Hallam (millionaire teacher) for giving the pros of spending less, saving more, and getting the freedom you desire.
Suzi is dangerous with some of the really stupid things she has said over the years. Dave gets an A for motivating people to get out of debt and an F for investment advice. That would average out to a C, but an F in one area means you are held back to take the class over.
Another Reader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 11:16 AM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
flintnational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta Suburb
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi View Post
Dave Ramsey and Suzy Orman suck at investing advice... but they are great at preaching spending reduction and living within one's means... That message (LBYM) is very important to many people. So I'd give them an F for investing advice - but a B for lifestyle advice.

Bogle is obviously good at investing advice (index funds, etc.)

I liked books by Zellinski (retire happy wild and free) and Andrew Hallam (millionaire teacher) for giving the pros of spending less, saving more, and getting the freedom you desire.
Rodi, thanks. I have not read either of the books you mentioned. I will check into them. Hopefully they are at the local library.
flintnational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 11:25 AM   #18
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 878
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi View Post
Dave Ramsey and Suzy Orman suck at investing advice... but they are great at preaching spending reduction and living within one's means... That message (LBYM) is very important to many people. So I'd give them an F for investing advice - but a B for lifestyle advice.

Bogle is obviously good at investing advice (index funds, etc.)

I liked books by Zellinski (retire happy wild and free) and Andrew Hallam (millionaire teacher) for giving the pros of spending less, saving more, and getting the freedom you desire.
+1

Several years ago, watching Suzy Orman show, especially the "can I retire" segment , is what got me thinking of actually being able to retire earlier than 65, and started me on my road for more information.
The Zellinski and Hallam books are great, same with John Bogle.
Then, I found this site, and I was well on my way.
Everyone here has something of value to add to my arsenal!
__________________
Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime.
pacergal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 11:26 AM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DrRoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,670
Quote:
I would give Jason Zweig an A.
+1. I love his book Your Money and Your Brain.
__________________
"The mountains are calling, and I must go." John Muir
DrRoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 11:59 AM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Midpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LKN
Posts: 13,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintnational View Post
I have wondered if Lynch thought active might out perform for a time, but would eventually revert to the mean (especially when fund size grows). Did he choose to get out with a good track record or did he just FIRE. I like to think he of him as an early retiree!
I was a Lynch fan back in his "invest in what you know" heyday. IIRC his success became impossible to sustain because Magellan became so large they couldn't find enough "ten baggers" to sustain above market beating returns. He, and his successor (Vinik), both wrote about how unwieldy Magellan became - no good deed goes unpunished. IIRC Lynch left when high returns became impossible and to spend more time with his young family once he had more money than he knew what to do with (he turned to philanthropy).

Magellan's AUM is a fraction of what it once was...
__________________

__________________
No one agrees with other people's opinions; they merely agree with their own opinions -- expressed by somebody else. Sydney Tremayne
Retired Jun 2011 at age 57

Target AA: 45% equity funds / 30% bond funds / 25% cash - radically changed Nov 2018
Target WR: Approx 2.5% Approx 20% SI (secure income, SS only)
Midpack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poll:How would you grade your ER experience? Ready Life after FIRE 94 07-26-2017 07:09 AM
Poll: Would You Go To Your Grade School Reunion? easysurfer Other topics 56 10-11-2015 12:46 AM
Would you give out personal financial info as a non profit officer. grasshopper FIRE and Money 23 05-31-2011 12:18 PM
Mr. Micawber is my financial guru nun FIRE and Money 9 11-07-2008 07:59 AM
Give Me A Grade Tommy_Dolitte Young Dreamers 7 02-02-2005 08:26 AM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:31 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.