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Old 05-24-2016, 09:02 AM   #21
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Those premium subsidies (not yours specifically Scrabbler) also scare me. Between the users who get their ails taken care of and drop and subsidy receivers who are largely immune from the rate shock increases, this leaves the "full rack rate" monthly payers exposed to even more of the increase.
Most people will act in their own economic self interests which would involve more people using and dropping, or just not buying at all, then the system crashes. At some point I will become a scumbag too after being taken advantage of by other consumers. Except worse... I wont even pay the penalty.
People moving in and out of coverage during the year may be a problem. We have no way of knowing how significant, because the only data released by the insurers is to make their claim but not allow for more thorough scrutiny. The root cause of rate increases is individual policies, however, is not people gaming the system, or even an excess of sick people, it's that US health care is very costly.

The Milliman Medical Index shows the average cost for a group policy - premium plus cost sharing - is around $6k per person. Add in the age range difference for individual policies and it's clear that many of the exchange options are still inexpensive by comparison and may increase much more in price.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:11 AM   #22
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Texas has been as hostile toward everything related to ACA as any state in the union, and has not really indicated any desire to defend or protect its ratepayers as far as I've been able to tell. It has one of the most lax insurance regulatory environments in the nation, and that was true well before the ACA. It was one of the first things I noticed when we moved here in 2003.
Its not just hostile to ACA, my mega-corps retiree coverage is much more expensive in Texas vs the northeast or almost any other location in the US. Since its self funded, the cost drivers are supposedly claims based, but its hard for me to believe that retirees are much sicker here than other parts of the county.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:22 AM   #23
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This is one of those situations where I really wish I would have been wrong, but I think the lack of sufficient penalties and enforcement of said penalties (you only pay if you would be getting a tax refund otherwise) have led to too much adverse selection in the individual insurance market that premiums are skyrocketing there much faster than in employer group plans. I more or less predicted that the lack of sufficient penalties or an enforceable "individual mandate" would led to ridiculous price spikes. The young and healthy are staying out, or worse -- getting in just long enough to get a bunch of deferred treatments, then getting out again.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:28 AM   #24
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People moving in and out of coverage during the year may be a problem. We have no way of knowing how significant, because the only data released by the insurers is to make their claim but not allow for more thorough scrutiny. The root cause of rate increases is individual policies, however, is not people gaming the system, or even an excess of sick people, it's that US health care is very costly.

The Milliman Medical Index shows the average cost for a group policy - premium plus cost sharing - is around $6k per person. Add in the age range difference for individual policies and it's clear that many of the exchange options are still inexpensive by comparison and may increase much more in price.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:57 AM   #25
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People moving in and out of coverage during the year may be a problem. We have no way of knowing how significant, because the only data released by the insurers is to make their claim but not allow for more thorough scrutiny. The root cause of rate increases is individual policies, however, is not people gaming the system, or even an excess of sick people, it's that US health care is very costly.

The Milliman Medical Index shows the average cost for a group policy - premium plus cost sharing - is around $6k per person. Add in the age range difference for individual policies and it's clear that many of the exchange options are still inexpensive by comparison and may increase much more in price.


Not debating the fact medical care is expensive. Its the gaming and cost shifting going on, and thinking 2 steps ahead this will be its undoing if adjustments are not made. The people on edge getting rate smacks paying out of pocket, not people being subsided will be next to abandon which then in turn will cause people in my category to be next in line to jump.
We had a good debate about these risk corridors at very beginning of implementation. It appears these expiring could be source of the next rate wave problem also.
Maybe its just me, but my experience isn't reflective your data. What deductible is that group policy of $6k? I bet is isn't a $6500 deductible like my crap plan is. So factoring in my ACA premium and deductible, Im out $9500. My old group plan is max cost of $7600, plus networks are considerably wider.



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Old 06-24-2016, 10:01 AM   #26
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Not an increase technically Blue Cross Minnesota has just announced they will be dropping all individual plans next year, except for the stripped down BluePlus limited provider option.

This is a pretty blow to people in some rural areas.....wow things are happening fast and not in a good way.
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:07 AM   #27
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I would not worry about it. Some new laws will be made, or new companies added, and all will work out.

The smart minds that created the process will be able to adjust it.

I have VA care, so i am not worried about it at all.
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:17 AM   #28
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I would not worry about it. Some new laws will be made, or new companies added, and all will work out.

The smart minds that created the process will be able to adjust it.

I have VA care, so i am not worried about it at all.
I'm 63 so I'm not THAT worried about it, but I can't tell if you have your "just joking" hat on.
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:33 PM   #29
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I would not worry about it. Some new laws will be made, or new companies added, and all will work out.

The smart minds that created the process will be able to adjust it.

I have VA care, so i am not worried about it at all.


They fixed it already... 16 months ago, I had a $5k deductible for about $85 a month and could use any area hospital. Since they "fixed it" I pay $325 for a $6500 deductible and only can go to one area hospital in network. Healthy people aren't joining as projected, risk corridors gone, many people are loading up on medical care then dropping...While the fools like me pay full price and don't even use it.
And that isnt even throwing in the fact a good amount of lawmakers want it to collapse on purpose so it will go away...
Throw in some more big rate increases, and the above cycle will perpetuate on an even grander scale becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. I certainly don't want this to happen. If it gets out of hand, I will drop it, and give them the bird in lieu of the teeth less penalty for not buying...Or option 2... Beg GF of 10 years to marry me so I can get me some company subsidized $175 a month, $200 annual deductible gold plated health insurance!


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Old 06-28-2016, 10:25 AM   #30
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Or option 3, live cheaply enough to get subsidies with very good cost-shared Silver plans; i.e., manage your income to stay under 250% FPL.

You have choices with the ACA.
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Old 06-28-2016, 10:36 AM   #31
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Georgia:

BCBS of GA: 9.1 - 14.8%
Humana: 65.2%
Harken Health (United): 44%
Aetna/Coventry: Unknown.
4 other carriers, likely including: Alliant (Peach State), Ambetter, Cigna and Kaiser: Unknown

2017 Rate Request Early Look: Georgia | ACASignups.net
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Old 06-28-2016, 10:59 AM   #32
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I'm paying $330/month for a HDHP ($6,500 deductible and max OOP) here in Georgia, and I'd be shocked if the premiums for this kind of bare-bones plan don't rise significantly next year. You have to wonder how sustainable this really is over time. I mean, sure, I can afford the premiums and the increases up to a point, but when it gets to be like $7,000/year for something that doesn't even pay for routine care, I'll certainly start to think about distasteful alternatives like "use and drop". And in my situation, I'm not eligible for any ACA subsidies so I'm paying the full retail price, and I don't see that changing. Sure is a stark contrast to the situation I was in while working full-time a few years ago. Back then my employer paid 100% of my premium and my max OOP was only $1,500 year!
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Old 06-28-2016, 11:08 AM   #33
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........ Sure is a stark contrast to the situation I was in while working full-time a few years ago. Back then my employer paid 100% of my premium and my max OOP was only $1,500 year!
How much was your employer paying? Is it possible the employer just reduced your income to make up the difference?
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Old 06-28-2016, 11:29 AM   #34
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according to kff.org the 2017 rate in Indianapolis, IN for the second lowest silver plan is expected to drop by 1% after seeing a drop of 10% in 2016
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Old 06-28-2016, 01:10 PM   #35
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How much was your employer paying? Is it possible the employer just reduced your income to make up the difference?
When I asked about it a few years ago, the premium for single-person coverage was around $500. And no, I'm pretty certain my salary wasn't reduced to offset that. I had a compensation arrangement with my boss (the owner/CEO) that was quite favorable for me. Of course, all that ended when I walked away into the FIRE sunset... and that deluxe, low-deductible, free health insurance coverage is pretty much the only thing I really miss.
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Old 06-28-2016, 01:49 PM   #36
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If my employer hadn't covered the premium in our small group it changed based on age and while the average "single" male cost was around $500 due to the number of young male employees, the actual cost for an older male employee was as much as $900 per month. And that was a policy with a $3500 deductible!
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Old 06-28-2016, 02:31 PM   #37
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You have choices with the ACA.
The choices appear to be getting slim in my neck of the woods. According to a recent newspaper article only one insurance carrier (BCBS) has filed to sell marketplace plans for 2017 in 8 of Arizona's smaller counties, which includes the one I live in. They are also asking for a 65% increase.
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Old 06-28-2016, 03:25 PM   #38
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The choices appear to be getting slim in my neck of the woods. According to a recent newspaper article only one insurance carrier (BCBS) has filed to sell marketplace plans for 2017 in 8 of Arizona's smaller counties, which includes the one I live in. They are also asking for a 65% increase.
Look on the bright side. Maybe we will go back to the prior system and you won't be able to buy insurance at any price, with a pre-existing condition.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:01 AM   #39
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I just checked and my insurance company will be asking for only an 8 percent increase for 2017. That's for an HMO which limits me to about half of the medical facilities and professionals in my area.
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Old 06-30-2016, 11:20 AM   #40
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The young and healthy are staying out, or worse -- getting in just long enough to get a bunch of deferred treatments, then getting out again.
Yes, there's a lot of that.
Anyway, there was really no way to predict that pumping a lot of new (tax) money into the medical care system would cause the cost of that commodity to go up.
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