A Social Solution?

[Walt34]

Or...there is no family at all. My husband and I are in that situation. We have no children and zero family members alive. We talk about needing to buy into a progressive care living situation in the future.

We're in that position too, with siblings that are our age but not in a position to help, and we don't expect any. That's why we're pretty much planning on a CCRC by the time I hit 70. It worked out very well for my mother, and DW's father put off moving out the the house far too long.

Aging is inevitable so there's no point in putting one's head in the sand and ignoring it. So my thought is to put us in a CCRC by the time I'm 70. If we don't need the services, great. But if we don't make the move, and then find we need them, then things get very tough.

 

[imoldernu]

We're in that position too, with siblings that are our age but not in a position to help, and we don't expect any. That's why we're pretty much planning on a CCRC by the time I hit 70. It worked out very well for my mother, and DW's father put off moving out the the house far too long.

Aging is inevitable so there's no point in putting one's head in the sand and ignoring it. So my thought is to put us in a CCRC by the time I'm 70. If we don't need the services, great. But if we don't make the move, and then find we need them, then things get very tough.

This may sound strange from one who has been lliving in and touting CCRC's, but there is a caveat. Unlike a retirement community, think The Villages, most CCRC's are occupied by people who are quite a bit older... like mid 80's, and the younger people are commonly widows, who have moved for reasons of safety. At that, in our CCRC villas, (read "Villa" as a regular freestanding home), in our late 70's, we are almost the youngest. While we are very, very happy here, we still have some alternate social lives... in our camp, and in our Retirement Community in Florida, so it has been a gradual transition.

In a CCRC, chances are slim that you'll find people who have the same interests that you currently have at your age. Most of the activities are cards, bingo, going out for lunch, or a day at the casino. Sending you a PM link to our community... (can't post here as it counts as a solicitation). It will give you an idea of what facilities are available in a full featured community (homes, apartments, assisted living, rehabilitation, nursing home, Alzheimer unit).
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This is not necessarily off topic... Of the 65 regular homes in our community, there are three, where the owner has live in, companion assistance... not an easy thing to come by, but arranged after finding that the local home care providers charge $14 to $16 an hour.

To the point made in the original post, hopefully to establish some means of bringing wants and needs together.

 

[Silver]

The CCRC's I am aware of require that you enter their community healthy and independent. A fairly thorough health screening is done prior to acceptance, and people are denied if there are any signs that you cannot live independently for a period of time after entry. So for some, waiting may disallow this opportunity.

 

[imoldernu]

The CCRC's I am aware of require that you enter their community healthy and independent. A fairly thorough health screening is done prior to acceptance, and people are denied if there are any signs that you cannot live independently for a period of time after entry. So for some, waiting may disallow this opportunity.

All CCRC's are not created the same... Much confusion about this...
Ours has regular individual homes, apartments, assisted living quarters, nursing home, Alzheimer unit, Fitness center and a rehab center....

For apartment living, yes... at least one person must be able to be indepndent, and understandably so, since the complex does offer the alternatives.

But, contrary to what many believe, you don't have to "buy in"... with a contract for life... Ours is on an ownership (for homes), or rental basis... Commitment and obligation subject to the same kinds of buy/sell or security deposit as in a regular community. No up-front charges.

 

[MooreBonds]

How would the risk of abuse be any different than the checks and balances that the law/society put in place to protect seniors from other in-home care (I'm thinking of visiting nurses, home-health aides, etc.). Just have some clearing house that can run potential roommates through the same background check and periodic monitoring.

I concede it is different because a roommate is there for more time, but I wonder if the in-home care protections could be expanded to such roommate situations. DS is an LNA and he had a bunch of background checks and such to jump through as part of his licensure process.

There are companies that provide that service currently. By the time you add in insurance coverage (not cheap) and various other costs and regulations, it requires them to charge a hefty hourly rate.

The reason that a mass-scale clearing house won't work is because where are you going to find people to do the work? Most traditional people already trained in that are already in healthcare settings in hospitals/care communities/doctors offices (nurses, aides, etc.). And most of them probably aren't going to do side gigs for extra money after-hours (they could do it now, and many people don't, either because they're tired or simply because they aren't driven to work more than 40 hours).

So that leaves just random people signing up to provide these services on a large scale. And do you really think any company will put its name on the line by hiring 100 random people to go to someone's home that is elderly and provide care, even with some sort of 'background check'? How do you certify they are qualified and versed well enough in the myriad of healthcare topics - even something as simple as helping to get someone out of a bed could result in an injury (not only to the patient, but even to the caregiver's back!). Add in countless other topics, ranging from bathing to administering medication to even dietary items.

Sure, maybe 80 out of 100 are perfect angels. Maybe 5 have questionable motives. But all it'll take is just 1 even halfway competent person or 1 criminal out of 100 to do something bad/wrong, and the company is then filing bankruptcy because of the resulting lawsuit and inability to get insurance afterwards (not to mention the bad reputation, even though the company did nothing wrong).

It is a good idea, in theory...but I highly doubt you'd find someone in this legal and regulatory climate who can make a go of it. I'd honestly put play money into FOREX before I'd ever invest in a 'healthcare clearinghouse' idea.

 

[Silver]

All CCRC's are not created the same... Much confusion about this...
Ours has regular individual homes, apartments, assisted living quarters, nursing home, Alzheimer unit, Fitness center and a rehab center....

For apartment living, yes... at least one person must be able to be indepndent, and understandably so, since the complex does offer the alternatives.

But, contrary to what many believe, you don't have to "buy in"... with a contract for life... Ours is on an ownership (for homes), or rental basis... Commitment and obligation subject to the same kinds of buy/sell or security deposit as in a regular community. No up-front charges.

It does sound like there are some different options out there. Good to know.

 

[Amethyst]

I often wonder why so many people love young children, who are (let's face it) helpless, smelly, and noisy, but even more people seem to loathe and shun elderly people who have simply regressed to the state of young children.

Amethyst

 

[REWahoo]

I often wonder why so many people love young children, who are (let's face it) helpless, smelly, and noisy, but even more people seem to loathe and shun elderly people who have simply regressed to the state of young children.

Fear - they see [-]the end[/-] their future in the elderly.

 

[MRG]

Fear - they see [-]the end[/-] their future in the elderly.

And everone of is is afraid to die. To quote a Hospice nurse 'it's easy to be dead, we fear getting there'.

MRG

 

[Walt34]

It does sound like there are some different options out there. Good to know.

There are multitudes of options. Buy in, straight rental, split the difference, etc. Some offer all three. Search on "senior living arrangements" or similar and read for an hour and you'll get the idea.

 

[growing_older]

But all of these choices require money. In fact, usually require considerable money. This is very different from the "old old people live on less expenses" that is often given as advice to people contemplating early retirement with borderline asset bases.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I often wonder why so many people love young children, who are (let's face it) helpless, smelly, and noisy, but even more people seem to loathe and shun elderly people who have simply regressed to the state of young children.

Amethyst

Erm. I don't really like either of them! But I'm no fit for a caregiver role in either situation. I'm interested in universal design concepts but I'm not even near the frame of mind needed to contemplate my own elderly years. I'm truthfully envisioning a lot of cats and the word "crazy".

 

[Walt34]

I'm truthfully envisioning a lot of cats and the word "crazy".

Hmmmm... Your future?:

 

[imoldernu]

But all of these choices require money. In fact, usually require considerable money. This is very different from the "old old people live on less expenses" that is often given as advice to people contemplating early retirement with borderline asset bases.

Yes... For one who is living at the poverty level, "for pay" retirement housing is unaffordable.

In our case, if we should have to move from our villa to an apartment in the same community, it would be a monthly rental. For 1 person, $2000/mo for two $2500. Plus the normal one month's refundable deposit. That includes:
2 meals/day
all utilities
free transportation to shopping, medical, recreation- shows, restaurants etc.
preferred access to assisted living or nursing home
all fitness facilities, inhouse activities
Free TV and Internet... but not phone.

Thus, for two persons... $30,000 year. Covering most basic needs.
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Back to the matter of a practical solution. As I mentioned up front, no way to develop a system for bringing people together under our legal system, but then communes are not created under a legal umbrella either.. and they continue to exist.

We are so accustomed to the idea of "working" for pay that the concept of merging the "wants" of the senior who needs some help to live independently in their own home, and having enough assets to do that...
to the "needs" of the 63 year old widow, who has only minimum Social Security....

I see it working every day... and looking at the statistics that predict the senior "bubble", think that some type of community care will be necessary.
Community - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Whether as a group, or as a companion unit some kind of solution will be needed. There are precedents... lets hope it happens sooner than later... With 50 million Americans living below the poverty line, it will be important.

 

[growing_older]

In our case, if we should have to move from our villa to an apartment in the same community, it would be a monthly rental. For 1 person, $2000/mo for two $2500. Plus the normal one month's refundable deposit.

This seems a very sensible arrangement and not cripplingly expensive. A friend is trying to arrange care for her elderly parents, and she is getting quotes in the $20,000 per month range, not the $2,000 range, and that's a tremendous difference. Even with selling the house and cashing out assets, she won't be able to afford this level of care for long.

 

[MRG]

This seems a very sensible arrangement and not cripplingly expensive. A friend is trying to arrange care for her elderly parents, and she is getting quotes in the $20,000 per month range, not the $2,000 range, and that's a tremendous difference. Even with selling the house and cashing out assets, she won't be able to afford this level of care for long.

That price seems extreme, my DF is in assisted living for around 4K a month, where he's at(PA) basic nursing home care is around 8K monthly. Now I won't tell you the medical treatment in that part of the country is the best.

There is a difference in what costs are depending on the area your in, and of course the quality of care. Seems like higher population of elders gives more options at a higher cost, based on family experience between FL., and PA. IMHO.


MRG

 

[imoldernu]

The cost in a CCRC is dependent on the care level...
In our community... for 1 person
Apartment - w/ meals and amenities... $24K/yr must be independent.
Assisted Living - $42K/yr
Nursing Home - $75K/yr semi private

Additional costs are dependent on special needs.
Finding the costs in various communities can be very difficult. Most require that you request quotes, and don't publish basic costs on their websites.

 

[Walt34]

There is a difference in what costs are depending on the area your in, and of course the quality of care. Seems like higher population of elders gives more options at a higher cost, based on family experience between FL., and PA. IMHO.
MRG

And to further complicate matters as with so many other things price doesn't always buy quality. DW has an aunt in full-time care because of a stroke, very expensive, FIL is getting better full-time care at almost one-half the cost.

Sigh. So much of this seems like just a dice roll.

 

[pb4uski]

.....And do you really think any company will put its name on the line by hiring 100 random people to go to someone's home that is elderly and provide care, even with some sort of 'background check'? How do you certify they are qualified and versed well enough in the myriad of healthcare topics - even something as simple as helping to get someone out of a bed could result in an injury (not only to the patient, but even to the caregiver's back!). Add in countless other topics, ranging from bathing to administering medication to even dietary items.....

What you describe above is the LNA (or CNA in some states) - licensed or certified nursing assistant. They have to successfully complete a training course, pass background checks and pass a national licensing examination. In most jurisdictions they are licensed by the state. There are loads of companies that hire them and some of them do provide care in the patient's home (a la visiting nurse agencies) but most provide care in nursing homes - in both cases under the supervision of a licensed nurse.