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Old 01-28-2015, 11:44 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by jcretire77 View Post
Apparently double bacon cheeseburgers and two bowls of ice cream aren't cutting it any more. I know my biggest issue has always been sugar in desserts, but it is amazing/amusing to find so much sugar in so many products that we consume. O.J., yogurt, etc
The thing is that I don't eat of that kind of stuff. While I'm not super low carb, during 2014 I averaged about 118g of carbs a day (96g net carbs). Over that year I lost 28 pounds (I'm only 11 pounds overweight right now). So, I already pay a lot of attention to what I eat and don't eat much refined carbs (very little). I do eat some whole grains but only a serving or two a day.

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If your fasting is always near 84 (which may not be the case), it seems you are probably spiking after meals in order to average 123. Your plan to get a meter and measure your blood sugar before and after-meals should give you very useful information.
I agree that is my concern.
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Old 01-28-2015, 03:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by FIRE'd@51 View Post
If your fasting is always near 84 (which may not be the case), it seems you are probably spiking after meals in order to average 123. Your plan to get a meter and measure your blood sugar before and after-meals should give you very useful information.
I am in total agreement with your post here.

A1C value seems awfully high to me with you semi-low carbing and your fasting glucose level being 84. I would take a glucose reading before a typical meal and every 15 minutes after that and see (up to 3 hours) - if you eat a lot of fat, the spike could come later than 2 hours after a meal.
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Old 01-28-2015, 04:32 PM   #23
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Apparently it's not that simple these days...

What Is a Normal Thyroid Stimulating Hormone Level?

Everybody seems to be looking for the 'Pill'. And everybody else seems to be willing to sell it to them. Not exactly an authoritative source. Unless you are counting website visits. Those advocating lowering cutoffs are mainly doing so because those at the higher end of the normal range have a higher chance of getting thyroid disease over then next 20 years or some other time period. The .gov site recommends a cut point of 4.0 while other national bodies use higher measurements up to 5.0. To start someone on a medicine that is going to suppress their own production of a useful substance in the absence of obvious disease and on the basis of one test result... not sure that it the way to go. Either individually or globally. Maybe it's just me though.
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Old 01-28-2015, 04:34 PM   #24
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Here's a video you might find interesting about carbohydrates and insulin:
Paleo Diets May Negate Benefits of Exercise | NutritionFacts.org

Also, the GTT (glucose tolerance test) is the gold standard. Better than the A1C though I'm not sure why that is.

I administered the test to myself. Easy to do, and did it in my home. Don't eat 12 hours prior (I did the test in the AM). First I did my fasting glucose. (Fasting glucose is fine and besides the A1C that's usually as far as initial testing goes with doctors). I've never had a GTT administered and when I asked my physician about it she said it's not necessary because of the A1C.

But I (and I'm not a doctor) believe the GTT can give you a better idea of what's going on than a simple fasting blood test.

So to test myself after the initial fasting blood test in the AM, I drank 300 calories of sugar (3 10oz cans of coke) and then tested myself at 1,2,3 and 4 hour intervals. Doesn't just have to be cokes, can be candy bars, anything with 300 calories and mostly sugar. The kit can be purchased at Walmart, places like that. And don't exercise in any way during the test.
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Old 01-28-2015, 04:40 PM   #25
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Katsmeow, if you lived where I do, you would not be taking thyroxine.

http://www.bcguidelines.ca/pdf/thyroid.pdf

You might want to scan this paper too, if you haven't already.

https://www.aace.com/files/final-fil...guidelines.pdf
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Old 01-28-2015, 04:46 PM   #26
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FWIW on the thyroid part I am taking medication (25mg daily) for 4 weeks only and then re-testing. Perhaps I should suggest doing T3 and T4 tests at that time.
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Old 01-28-2015, 04:49 PM   #27
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Katsmeow, if you lived where I do, you would not be taking thyroxine.

http://www.bcguidelines.ca/pdf/thyroid.pdf

You might want to scan this paper too, if you haven't already.

https://www.aace.com/files/final-fil...guidelines.pdf

Now that's what I am talking about!
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Old 01-28-2015, 04:54 PM   #28
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Have to run off to a meeting but looking at the paper and the Guidelines, I'm not sure that Katsmeow would have been started on thyroid medicine. I'll have a deeper look later. Thanks for the post Meadbh.
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:00 PM   #29
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Have to run off to a meeting but looking at the paper and the Guidelines, I'm not sure that Katsmeow would have been started on thyroid medicine. I'll have a deeper look later. Thanks for the post Meadbh.
You're welcome, and thanks for challenging me to find peer reviewed sources. I posted the original article just to point out that there was a controversy. But it seems that it might just be an academic controversy, with no documented benefit to patients who are prescribed thyroxine with normal TSH levels......which Katsmeow's appear to be.

Thyroxine is cheap, so I don't think there is too much money to be made in that market.

Disclaimer: I am not an endocrinologist.
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:12 PM   #30
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You're welcome, and thanks for challenging me to find peer reviewed sources. I posted the original article just to point out that there was a controversy. But it seems that it might just be an academic controversy, with no documented benefit to patients who are prescribed thyroxine with normal TSH levels......which Katsmeow's appear to be.

Thyroxine is cheap, so I don't think there is too much money to be made in that market.

Disclaimer: I am not an endocrinologist.
FWIW, before I decided to try the medication I did a fairly extensive search and read a number of articles (I don't just mean popular article. I went and read legitimate peer reviewed research). I also dug out the Endocrinologists paper where they reversed their position in 2003 (under which I would be considered to not have a normal TSH level) and then went back to a higher level. I read that paper. I read a lot about the controversy. It is by no means settled what is a normal TSH level and at what point to treat. Anyway, I'm trying it for 4 weeks and I plan to ask for a ful thyroid panel to be done at that time and then will revisit the issue.
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:24 PM   #31
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FWIW, before I decided to try the medication I did a fairly extensive search and read a number of articles (I don't just mean popular article. I went and read legitimate peer reviewed research). I also dug out the Endocrinologists paper where they reversed their position in 2003 (under which I would be considered to not have a normal TSH level) and then went back to a higher level. I read that paper. I read a lot about the controversy. It is by no means settled what is a normal TSH level and at what point to treat. Anyway, I'm trying it for 4 weeks and I plan to ask for a ful thyroid panel to be done at that time and then will revisit the issue.
Katsmeow, I applaud you for taking the time to do the research and addressing your health in a very rational way. As you are discovering, often the right answer is "it depends".
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:58 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Katsmeow View Post
FWIW, before I decided to try the medication I did a fairly extensive search and read a number of articles (I don't just mean popular article. I went and read legitimate peer reviewed research). I also dug out the Endocrinologists paper where they reversed their position in 2003 (under which I would be considered to not have a normal TSH level) and then went back to a higher level. I read that paper. I read a lot about the controversy. It is by no means settled what is a normal TSH level and at what point to treat. Anyway, I'm trying it for 4 weeks and I plan to ask for a ful thyroid panel to be done at that time and then will revisit the issue.
Hi Katsmeow

I have high thyroid antibodies indicating thyroid autoimmune disease and a TSH that has crept above 3.0. My doctor says he likes to see TSH at 2.5 or lower.

Right now we're trying dietary changes and iodine supplementation (which I haven't quite started) to see if the thyroid antibodies come down.

I'm interested in the references you find useful. This is all rather confusing.
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Old 01-29-2015, 09:12 AM   #33
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I was concerned from the posts above whether a K2 supplement would be helpful if I take the D3. Not sure whether to take one without talking again to the doc.
I have heard that vitamin K will help one absurd D. Also, if you are taking tums or other antacids, they may affect your ability to asorb D and well as other vitamins/minerals and nutrients.
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Old 01-29-2015, 09:23 AM   #34
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...
I was concerned from the posts above whether a K2 supplement would be helpful if I take the D3. Not sure whether to take one without talking again to the doc.
Your doc will most likely not be up to speed on k2. Here is an introduction: Vitamin K2: The Missing Nutrient
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Old 01-30-2015, 05:36 AM   #35
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Katsmeow, I applaud you for taking the time to do the research and addressing your health in a very rational way. As you are discovering, often the right answer is "it depends".

I've had cold intolerance issues for years now so I've been looking at thyroid as well. There seem to be two types of doctors out there (a simplification I know), those that only test for TSH and if that's abnormal then test the T3 and T4. Then the other ones who will take everything into account. Also, lots of debate over whether Armour Thyroid is better or worse than LevoT. Some doctors won't even prescribe Armour, the others will indeed.

Also some debate over whether the TSH test should be in the morning and fasting versus not. I had mine tested fasting and it was 4.2 (considered normal for my lab) and then 3 mos later at a different lab in the afternoon and it was 2.7. Just anecdotal for me since I haven't yet gone back to retest.

I guess the question for me Katsmeow is do you have any symptoms of hypothyroidism? Seems like you are losing the weight fine, any other issues? E.g., are you cold when everyone else around you is fine (like me?


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Old 01-30-2015, 07:28 AM   #36
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One of the things I find frustrating with Drs is that if something is in range, they generally don't worry about it, although not all in range values are desirable. Also, I think most Drs are poor at understanding the interrelationships between comprehensive blood test results. My DD, visited a PhD nutritionist that demonstrated far more knowledge in reading blood test results and connecting the dots than any medical Dr I have ever experienced.
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:28 AM   #37
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I have achieved the best results by always taking my medication on an empty stomach and using brand name. I have tried generic inadvertently and suffered.


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I tried generic once and I felt tired. Switched back to Synthroid brand and felt better. Why on earth there sould be any difference is beyond me. Fillers? Dyes? I noticed the generic stuff is now almost as expensive as brand Synthroid now.
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:28 AM   #38
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I tried generic once and I felt tired. Switched back to Synthroid brand and felt better. Why on earth there sould be any difference is beyond me. Fillers? Dyes? I noticed the generic stuff is now almost as expensive as brand Synthroid now.

I had my thyroid removed in 2011. I take generic Levothyroxine, 88MCG. If I buy thru my insurance mail order plan , I would pay my $15.00 copayment, but I don't buy it that way. I get it at Walgreens for about $2.50 or so for a 90 day supply. I've been on generic from the beginning, so I don't know if I would feel better or worse on the brand name.


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Old 01-30-2015, 12:24 PM   #39
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I guess the question for me Katsmeow is do you have any symptoms of hypothyroidism? Seems like you are losing the weight fine, any other issues? E.g., are you cold when everyone else around you is fine (like me?
Yes, I am always cold when others are fine. It is a big issue for me.

I am losing weight, but I am putting considerable effort into losing weight. Not sure how it would be if I wasn't doing that. I am often tired (but I'm wondering if that is tied to the Vitamin D deficiency. For many years I had oily hair but the last few years it has been dry (but then that sometimes happens as people get older). I have thick hair though so no hair loss.
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fatigue, etc
Old 02-05-2015, 08:34 AM   #40
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fatigue, etc

In certain situations, including anemia, the A1c can be inaccurate.
http://www.clinicalcorrelations.org/?p=5190


You may want to research MTHFR issues for the cholesterol situation and gluten intolerance issues if the post prandial BG tests are insufficient to sort this out.
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