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Old 07-24-2014, 09:01 PM   #121
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Yes, even disconnecting the battery (for any reason) can reset the codes and require you to go through a driving cycle before it can pass. Maybe this should be held in non-volatile memory, but then again, I think they are trying to make it tamper-resistant, so maybe resetting everything when power is removed is a good plan.



Like I said, maybe it doesn't make sense in some specific cases like this, but when looking at the big picture, it probably does make sense overall. It really is difficult for large scale operations to deal with the exceptions, and that leaves it open to corruption as well.







Well, that is a risk. I know when I went to purchase a used car, I used the Car-Fax report (or something like that?) and it included the emission test dates and results. Hindsight is 20/20, but I suppose you do need to be extra careful when purchasing out of state.



-ERD50

Last comment and I promise to not derail thread again! You mentioned car fax and I read it and looked at dealership photos. Bought it without even looking at it. Sometimes stereotypes are right. I noticed it had no wrecks, never had a lien, and the yearly license renewal was always one month ahead of time (one car owner, 5 years old). I said to myself, this car was owned by an old man who took good car of it. I was right, I googled his name as it was on the title after I bought it and he was 72 years old! It's a new looking, well kept SUV.


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Old 07-24-2014, 09:01 PM   #122
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Even in the unlikely event that the subsidies are ruled illegal, it is even more unlikely that the Federal Government tries to recoup subsidies from taxpayers
Even if people are required to pay it back, only those with the means to will be required. If you have assets, or a pension, you might have to pay. If you are truly below the poverty line, you would be exempt. You health care is free anyway.

Odds are, no one pays anything. Congress passes a law so it doesn't matter of you use the State exchange, or the Federal exchange.

ACA is here to stay, for everyone.
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:15 PM   #123
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Even if people are required to pay it back, only those with the means to will be required. If you have assets, or a pension, you might have to pay. If you are truly below the poverty line, you would be exempt. You health care is free anyway.

Odds are, no one pays anything. Congress passes a law so it doesn't matter of you use the State exchange, or the Federal exchange.

ACA is here to stay, for everyone.
Income below poverty line does not equal free health care in states that didn't expand medicaid. If I make under $11,490 in taxable income then I have to pay the full health care premium with no subsidy. If I make $11,500 my health care cost is approx. $300/yr. If I make $11,489 my health care cost is approx. $3000/yr. I may have to not count all of my business expenses to make sure I stay above $11,490.
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:15 AM   #124
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I could live with giving up the subsidy, paying a full-freight premium each month. After all that's the way it was before Obamacare. But I'd hate to see the cost-sharing subsidies eliminated as well. My old policy had a $5000 deductible and a $7500 out-of-pocket max. Now I have a $250 deductible and a $500 OOPmax, which I easily met back in February. So I'm getting over a thousand dollars a month in prescriptions at no cost to me, not to mention doctor's visits, out-patient surgery, etc.
In other words, that's where the real savings is, not in the $400 a month premium subsidy (I pay $160).
I think that the court's decision applies only to premium subsidies, but who knows. And would insurance companies even continue to offer new policies like mine, if too few people could afford to buy them at the higher premium?
In any case, my strategy from the start has been to sock away the cost-sharing savings, not spend them, in the worst case where this does all fall apart in a few years, and count my blessings (and smile at the pharmacy counter) for now.
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:42 AM   #125
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But I'd hate to see the cost-sharing subsidies eliminated as well. My old policy had a $5000 deductible and a $7500 out-of-pocket max. Now I have a $250 deductible and a $500 OOPmax, which I easily met back in February. So I'm getting over a thousand dollars a month in prescriptions at no cost to me, not to mention doctor's visits, out-patient surgery, etc.
I don't have an ACA plan but looked at them on the exchange out of curiosity. The impression that I got was that the deductibles and OOP maxes were pretty high. Did you get a platinum plan?
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:15 AM   #126
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I don't have an ACA plan but looked at them on the exchange out of curiosity. The impression that I got was that the deductibles and OOP maxes were pretty high. Did you get a platinum plan?
I think it is the cost sharing, which can be pretty huge if you manage to skate just barely above poverty level and Medicaid.

The actuarial value of even a silver plan goes up to something like 94% with cost sharing.
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:29 AM   #127
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I think it is the cost sharing, which can be pretty huge if you manage to skate just barely above poverty level and Medicaid.

The actuarial value of even a silver plan goes up to something like 94% with cost sharing.
I have a silver plan and have a $500 deductible and $500 OOP max. If I make too much or too little money you can add a zero to the end of both those numbers.
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Old 07-25-2014, 09:21 AM   #128
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I don't have an ACA plan but looked at them on the exchange out of curiosity. The impression that I got was that the deductibles and OOP maxes were pretty high. Did you get a platinum plan?
No, a Silver plan -- that's the only way to get the very low OOP costs via the cost-sharing. The ideal MAGI, though, is around $14K, if I remember right. Since my only taxable income is from CD interest, I was able to swing that.
I make up any income deficit with a Roth conversion, which is an added bonus in its own right. A pretty sweet deal, for a long as it lasts anyway.
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:14 AM   #129
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I never really picked up on the cost sharing component. That does sound like a big deal for low income people. Actually makes HC "affordable." That makes me a bigger fan of Obamacare even though I am footing some of their bill since I am in a highish bracket. Does it phase out gradually or do you fall off a cliff at some income threshold?
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:35 AM   #130
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I never really picked up on the cost sharing component. That does sound like a big deal for low income people. Actually makes HC "affordable."
Just a nit to pick: The subsidy might make health care affordable to that individual, but the subsidy will not make health care affordable in the larger sense (i.e. reduce US health care spending). As far as the impact of the entire law on US overall health care costs, that is still an open question, but when I hear that the law "makes health care affordable" it is obvious that a lot is being swept under the rug by omitting the "individually" affordable clarification. Maybe this will be a case where pumping a lot of new money into a set of commodities will lower their price (?), or maybe price controls will, this time, not lead to shortages. If so, it will be a case that will fascinate economists and require some adjustments to long held understandings of how things work.
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:14 AM   #131
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Just a nit to pick: The subsidy might make health care affordable to that individual, but the subsidy will not make health care affordable in the larger sense (i.e. reduce US health care spending). As far as the impact of the entire law on US overall health care costs, that is still an open question, but when I hear that the law "makes health care affordable" it is obvious that a lot is being swept under the rug by omitting the "individually" affordable clarification. Maybe this will be a case where pumping a lot of new money into a set of commodities will lower their price (?), or maybe price controls will, this time, not lead to shortages. If so, it will be a case that will fascinate economists and require some adjustments to long held understandings of how things work.
I agree. We are a long way from seeing whether the ACA can bend the total cost curve. But I had previously thought that the insurance plans I saw on the exchanges left people with large potential out of pocket cost which has traditionally been the case for the self insured (high deductible, high OOPMax). While this is "affordable" for the moderately well to do it seems a tough burden on pay-check to pay-check people and could keep them away from the doctors office when they most need to visit. The cost sharing subsidies in the ACA as described here sound like they significantly lower that burden for low income folks, including not a few ERers. I have always been a fan of single payer to do away with that burden. But to the extent that the ACA can reduce the out of pocket burden it in those least able to absorb it I am glad to hear about it.
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Old 07-25-2014, 12:12 PM   #132
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I never really picked up on the cost sharing component. That does sound like a big deal for low income people. Actually makes HC "affordable." That makes me a bigger fan of Obamacare even though I am footing some of their bill since I am in a highish bracket. Does it phase out gradually or do you fall off a cliff at some income threshold?
You get more subsidy the lower your MAGI is (until you go below the Medicaid line). You gradually get less subsidy as your MAGI goes up, until you get zero subsidy.

You can estimate those levels for your state, your family, your age(s) and various projected MAGI levels using this Kaiser ACA subsidy calculator: Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
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Old 07-25-2014, 09:37 PM   #133
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Using just the word subsidy can be confusing as there are two. One is a premium subsidy. The other is the cost sharing subsidy. Most people are aware of the premium subsidy, but surprisingly many (especially the poor) are unaware of the cost sharing subsidy, which is even more significant.

I have frequently had people come on another health forum, bashing Obamacare's affordability because of the high deductibles and out of pocket costs. They don't know that with the Silver plan the deductible, the max OOP, along with all costs are greatly reduced. Even your drugs. They do not publish these numbers because it is tied to your exact income, so you need to. apply to get the final numbers. But as an example. Someone making only $17,000 a year gets approx. 87% of all costs abated.

The problem is, half of the people who are entitled don't even know about it and don't sign up because no one gets to explain it to them unless they inquire about a policy, and they won't apply because they think they can't afford it or because they don't like the name attached to it.

I do feel that the mark was missed in this area in getting the word out. There was a lot of information and self education required in understanding the new healthcare bill, and I'm afraid many were not up to the task.
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:46 PM   #134
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I have no idea why healthcare is so expensive anyway. In 2007, DS had a plate put in with 6 screws. It was all made of titanium. We were billed ~$180/screw. I forget what the plate cost--probably a whole lot more. Current price for titanium is $6.10/100 gm. For a < 1 gm gm screw that is about 5 cents raw material. It's a fricken screw, for God's sake!. Anyway, we/insurance (about 50/50) paid not only $180 per screw but also $180 per drill bit, one for each screw hole.

I wish I were in that OR watching the surgery--wonder if a different drill bit was used in each hole. If not, it was fraud. If they used a different drill bit, then why.

3 days ago we got the plate taken out, because ever since then DS has had horrible reactions to metal buttons, metal snaps, and pain where the plate is if he bumps the arm.

They gave us the plate--a tiny thing, and the screws. The whole thing weighs 6 gm. So we paid over a thousand dollars for 30 cents of material, molded in a simple plate, and autoclaved for sterility.

This is a ripoff. The hospital and the supplier got to keep the extra ridiculous amount of money. The doctors get paid their fee--also too high IMHO. I am a doctor. Pediatricians charge about $70 for an outpatient visit, more for check-ups.

Not only that, we couldn't find out the cost up front.
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Old 07-26-2014, 06:20 AM   #135
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...........
Not only that, we couldn't find out the cost up front.
Ah yes. What a beautiful business model.
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Old 07-26-2014, 07:20 AM   #136
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...........
Not only that, we couldn't find out the cost up front.
Ah yes. What a beautiful business model.
That's the "free market"
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Old 07-26-2014, 07:30 AM   #137
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That's the "free market"
That's why I cringe every time I hear the term "free market".
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Old 07-26-2014, 08:05 AM   #138
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....But I had previously thought that the insurance plans I saw on the exchanges left people with large potential out of pocket cost which has traditionally been the case for the self insured (high deductible, high OOPMax). ...
While the cost subsidies make these high deductibles and co-pays more affordable, even if they didn't exist the insurance is a good thing given the high cost of health care.

For example, in my state one can get an unsubsidized, catastrophic policy for ~$215/month with a $6,350 OOP Max. Let's say you had a health event tht cost $35k. IMO no matter what your station in life it is much better to owe $6,350 than $35k especially if the cost of protection is $2,600 a year, and that is unsubsidized.

People need to get the idea that health care is free out of their heads. ACA is an attempt by society to make it more affordable but is it still expensive.

It seems to me that health insurance is reverting to what it was back in the 50s - it doesn't cover every little thing.... that cost is on the individual... but it protects people from the financial cost of an expensive health event. It is good that they have made well visits free so people don't cheap out on preventative care.
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Old 07-26-2014, 08:07 AM   #139
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That's why I cringe every time I hear the term "free market".
Let's be fair. There are plenty of things that are free market when you can shop for and know the cost of before you purchase so it isn't the fact that medical services are free market that is the problem. Medicine needs to and is heading in the direction of being more transparent albeit frustratingly slowly.
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Old 07-26-2014, 09:19 AM   #140
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I have no idea why healthcare is so expensive anyway. In 2007, DS had a plate put in with 6 screws. It was all made of titanium. We were billed ~$180/screw. I forget what the plate cost--probably a whole lot more. Current price for titanium is $6.10/100 gm. For a < 1 gm gm screw that is about 5 cents raw material. It's a fricken screw, for God's sake!. Anyway, we/insurance (about 50/50) paid not only $180 per screw but also $180 per drill bit, one for each screw hole.

I wish I were in that OR watching the surgery--wonder if a different drill bit was used in each hole. If not, it was fraud. If they used a different drill bit, then why.

3 days ago we got the plate taken out, because ever since then DS has had horrible reactions to metal buttons, metal snaps, and pain where the plate is if he bumps the arm.

They gave us the plate--a tiny thing, and the screws. The whole thing weighs 6 gm. So we paid over a thousand dollars for 30 cents of material, molded in a simple plate, and autoclaved for sterility.

This is a ripoff. The hospital and the supplier got to keep the extra ridiculous amount of money. The doctors get paid their fee--also too high IMHO. I am a doctor. Pediatricians charge about $70 for an outpatient visit, more for check-ups.

Not only that, we couldn't find out the cost up front.
On the flipside, if there had been some contamination in those screws or plate or defect which caused your DS to become seriously ill or die, would your lawyer be ok to settle a lawsuit for just the $180 per screw refund?
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