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ACA trouble. Appeals court rules subsidies illegal
Old 07-22-2014, 09:52 AM   #1
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ACA trouble. Appeals court rules subsidies illegal

Have not really thought through the implications of this. I assume it will go quickly to the Supreme court?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/appeal...142125125.html
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:55 AM   #2
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A snippet would be helpful
Quote:
A judicial panel in a 2-1 ruling said such subsidies can be granted only to those people who bought insurance in an Obamacare exchange run by an individual state or the District of Columbia - not on the federally run exchange HealthCare.gov.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:01 AM   #3
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I agree this is going to SCOTUS quickly. I expect there to be a stay to prevent stopping the existing subsidies (pure speculation). This is an interesting legal question. The intent was certainly not reflected in the actual language of the bill. So, what's a law? What we'd like or what it says?
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:07 AM   #4
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The reason it interests me is we are going to be ER next year and will have to choose a state to call home (selling home, travelling in a RV).

I am somewhat heavily depending on a decent ACA subsidy. I am sure this gets resolved before next year but could affect the decision of which state to choose.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:11 AM   #5
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Might this set of a migration? Those who don't want to pay for HC swapping states with those looking for subsidies?
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:14 AM   #6
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Might this set of a migration? Those who don't want to pay for HC swapping states with those looking for subsidies?
The list of states that use the federal exchange is huge though.

I was thinking Florida or Texas for us, and both use the fed exchange.

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Louisiana
Maine
Michigan
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
New Hampshire
New Jersey
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Virginia
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:15 AM   #7
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The reason it interests me is we are going to be ER next year and will have to choose a state to call home (selling home, travelling in a RV).

I am somewhat heavily depending on a decent ACA subsidy. I am sure this gets resolved before next year but could affect the decision of which state to choose.
I suspect that there will be a move to put a state portal face on the federal exchange and call that the state exchange. The question is whether all the states will go along with it.

Right now all health insurance is "local" in that rates are determined by the plan and zip code.

From the earliest days of the ACA, I've wondered why any state would bother to spend millions upon millions of dollars on a state portal since the Feds were going to create a national exchange anyway. This subsidy phrasing was a reason I wasn't aware of but it seems more like an issue with the language than intent.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:24 AM   #8
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From the earliest days of the ACA, I've wondered why any state would bother to spend millions upon millions of dollars on a state portal since the Feds were going to create a national exchange anyway. This subsidy phrasing was a reason I wasn't aware of but it seems more like an issue with the language than intent.
+1

Oregon spent a ton of money for their site. It didn't work. Now they are switching to the fed site. Another example our government at work.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:26 AM   #9
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Seems like I remember a representative (was it Nancy Pelosi?) who said something to the effect that "We need to get this passed - we can figure out what's in it later".
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:28 AM   #10
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This subsidy phrasing was a reason I wasn't aware of but it seems more like an issue with the language than intent.
The language is very clear, and it appears in many places. The subsidies are for state-run exchanges. The intent is up for debate, but I have read that the intent was to "encourage" states to establish these exchanges. If a state didn't establish an exchange, the feds would do it and the residents of that state would get no subsidies, thus building political pressure on these states to go along with the plan.

I agree that, if the SCOTUS eventually rules that the subsidies can only go to state-run exchanges, there will be some way found by many states and the feds to meet the letter of the law with minimal investment and minimal real change.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:35 AM   #11
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I suspect that there will be a move to put a state portal face on the federal exchange and call that the state exchange. The question is whether all the states will go along with it.
Yes, in states that go along with it, problem solved. They put their own front end on it just like making minor customizations and having an interface team in charge of a SAP application.

In resistant states, there will be a lot of political pressure to do the same just like they are under heavy pressure from local businesses, poor advocates and the medical community to expand Medicaid in the states that have not.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:35 AM   #12
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Seems like I remember a representative (was it Nancy Pelosi?) who said something to the effect that "We need to get this passed - we can figure out what's in it later".
Not just a representative, but the Speaker of the House. This appears to be yet one more example of how carelessly this law was crafted.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:36 AM   #13
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+1

Oregon spent a ton of money for their site. It didn't work. Now they are switching to the fed site. Another example our government at work.
No doubt about it. Oregon squandered millions on a failed state software system.

But......

Just north of Oregon, Washington built their own site. It had some start up problems also but not nearly as bad as Oregon's. The Washington site is currently working well for the vast majority of citizens. Another example of our government at work.

A study of what the difference were between these two similar states might be very enlightening.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:41 AM   #14
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Agreed, the law is a mess and probably a lawyer's meal ticket for years to come. IMHO, the only thing worse was the situation we had before the law was passed. Anybody who can come up with a better way to fairly provide Americans with the health care they need will win a lot of votes, IMHO. (Hint, Hint to certain groups.)
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:18 AM   #15
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This appears to be yet one more example of how carelessly this law was crafted.
I haven't paid much attention to all this, because, so far at least, it hasn't directly affected either my employer-provided or my previous employer's retiree HI. With any law this "big", there are bound to be unintended consequences. But much of the law came from previous proposals, from both sides of the aisle, and from "Romney-Care" (not meant to be political; I don't know what the official name is...).

It will likely evolve, or maybe even be rescinded, so stay tuned...
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:29 AM   #16
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Well, I am going full-steam ahead with my 2015 ER. It's a ruling that's scary for me, here in PA, where there's a federally run exchange. If there are no subsidies, then some news reports (and common sense) suggest that the premiums will skyrocket for those non-subsidized insureds who remain -- like me. I will move. Massachusetts is looking a lot more inviting right now....
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:31 AM   #17
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Agreed, the law is a mess and probably a lawyer's meal ticket for years to come. IMHO, the only thing worse was the situation we had before the law was passed. Anybody who can come up with a better way to fairly provide Americans with the health care they need will win a lot of votes, IMHO. (Hint, Hint to certain groups.)
This will quickly bring Porky. It's always a debate as to whether the ACA improved things or not. Then there is the question of what is "fair." I won't wander into the discussion and suggest all others do the same.

Let's focus on the possible impact of finances.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:36 AM   #18
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Well, I am going full-steam ahead with my 2015 ER. It's a ruling that's scary for me, here in PA, where there's a federally run exchange. If there are no subsidies, then some news reports (and common sense) suggest that the premiums will skyrocket for those non-subsidized insureds who remain -- like me. I will move. Massachusetts is looking a lot more inviting right now....
It has no impact on my plans unless somehow the ACA totally collapses and Texas doesn't reinstitute their High Risk Plan. I ran the numbers on suppressing taxable income versus doing Roth conversions. Overall, I'm better off financially to move money from my IRA to a Roth prior to Medicare.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:38 AM   #19
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Somebody at some point is going to have to clue me in on the "Porky" moniker. Why do you folks call the moderator "Porky"? (Unfortunately, that's the only thing that's funny in connection with the discussion on this DC Circuit ruling....)
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:44 AM   #20
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Somebody at some point is going to have to clue me in on the "Porky" moniker. Why do you folks call the moderator "Porky"? (Unfortunately, that's the only thing that's funny in connection with the discussion on this DC Circuit ruling....)
Ha! If you'll remember Porky the Pig of cartoon fame, saying "That's all folks", an oft used ending to threads that have strayed into political territory...
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