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Old 12-06-2013, 10:08 AM   #21
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My post was just one story, unfiltered by partisan politics . If I knew of somebody worse off under ACA I would have also mentioned that. The media stories are often slanted politically, IMHO. No surprises there.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:00 AM   #22
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My post was just one story, unfiltered by partisan politics . If I knew of somebody worse off under ACA I would have also mentioned that. The media stories are often slanted politically, IMHO. No surprises there.
Chuck, you write about me then, as I am definitely going to be worse off! . Right now we are just talking about winners and losers in the cost shifting game. I used to be a winner with good health and underwriting. Now I have shifted to the loser category. I hope maybe true cost reform that benefits all will eventually be addressed, and not just cost shifting down the road. Cutting doctor reimbursements and limiting access I am afraid will not be the best solution. But at least I will have an option to get out of it as long as I stay nice to my GF that would provide me company subsidized insurance....
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:07 AM   #23
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Chuck, you write about me then, as I am definitely going to be worse off! . Right now we are just talking about winners and losers in the cost shifting game. I used to be a winner with good health and underwriting. Now I have shifted to the loser category. I hope maybe true cost reform that benefits all will eventually be addressed, and not just cost shifting down the road. Cutting doctor reimbursements and limiting access I am afraid will not be the best solution. But at least I will have an option to get out of it as long as I stay nice to my GF that would provide me company subsidized insurance....
Who better to share you first hand, non politically motivated story, than yourself.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:13 AM   #24
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My post was just one story, unfiltered by partisan politics . If I knew of somebody worse off under ACA I would have also mentioned that. The media stories are often slanted politically, IMHO. No surprises there.
Agree that media stories are often slanted, but reality "unfiltered by partisan politics" is that folks like Mulligan (& others) will be worse off under ACA- at least as things stand now.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:18 AM   #25
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Who better to share you first hand, non politically motivated story, than yourself.
A lot of variables come into play as we know. But if you were a healthy middle age male or younger, income above the subsidy line, and lived in a underwriting state, there are few opportunities to get around the price increase. I gripe as it will be over 3X what I currently pay with an inferior policy to boot. But, if I make it to 65 with no medical issues I really won't be crushed by the increase. And at that point I can get my money back from Medicare with various body part replacements.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:20 AM   #26
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:39 AM   #27
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Will you share with us what makes you worse off now?
PB, is smelling porky, so I will word this in a way to keep my streak of never causing a thread to close. BTW, I am not against ACA, just commenting it has a negative effect on me, just like it has a positive effect on someone who has been denied coverage and needs it. My rate for a $5500 deductible no copay after deductible this year is $88 a month for a 49 year old. If I were to buy it in January it would be about $290 for a $6300 deductible. I got the one year extension loophole, so I do not have to pay that until December of next year. The reasons mine are going up are obviously because the insurance pool has changed. Being underwritten, I was in a healthy "individual group". In addition, I had no maternity coverage, drug dependence coverage, or mental health coverage. Now, I have to pay for those too.
Fours years ago, when I got my policy, I didn't really know why everyone complained about insurance costs because I thought $73 a month was nothing. I just filled out an application and they gave me the price. Throw in the HSA deduction, and my net insurance costs were actually less than zero. This forum let me understand the outrageous costs some were paying and why. I am sure I wasn't the only clueless person who has always been healthy and didn't realize the enormous costs others pay and why. That is probably the reason the backlash is occurring from some segments, is they don't understand how they were protected from the costs until now.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:49 AM   #28
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I just consider myself really lucky to be on my govt insurance. $300 a month for basic coverage for my wife and I. I have always considered my insurance to be a nice bonus. My cousin and her husband run/own a family restaurant (small town-Castle Rock WA). When I told them how much I was paying they said they were around $1000 a month. Haven't seen them for a while so I don't know how the ACA will effect them. Now that I have been retired the last 2 years.....and talking to people I golf with during the summers......$300 is really really really cheap. Something needed to be done with the health system.....is ACA going to work out? Sure hope so.... although I could eventually drop my insurance completely at some point in the future if we are back in the UK.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:53 AM   #29
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Agree that media stories are often slanted, but reality "unfiltered by partisan politics" is that folks like Mulligan (& others) will be worse off under ACA- at least as things stand now.
And there are yet others here who are better off.

So what's the point?
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:58 AM   #30
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Wonder if the OP's 30-something will really be better off. Serious illness/injury would still mean likely bankruptcy. How many folks with $20k annual income have the liquid assets to handle $6+k OOPmax, particularly if hitting that for mult years?
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:10 PM   #31
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And there are yet others here who are better off.

So what's the point?
OP posted "......if I knew of somebody worse off under ACA I would have also mentioned that". Even White House admits there are winners & losers under ACA.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:46 PM   #32
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Mulligan, you've just got to try to live long enough to get into the "winner" group. Geezers cost Medicare a lot. If you die young, you "lock in your losses".

So, remember to do your jumping jacks everyday.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:52 PM   #33
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Wonder if the OP's 30-something will really be better off. Serious illness/injury would still mean likely bankruptcy. How many folks with $20k annual income have the liquid assets to handle $6+k OOPmax, particularly if hitting that for mult years?
I believe that hospitals do allow people to pay off the debt in installment with low or no interest. For very serious life threatening illnesses or injuries, a $6K cost is quite "affordable", compared to what it was before. So, our young man or woman will have to drive the old car for a few more years and eat out less, but he/she stays alive. And that's more important.

My state has a program to help indigenous people with healthcare. It may be a form of Medicaid, I think, and my friend has a nephew who was saved from a serious cancer with this program.

All the above existed prior to ACA, by the way.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:04 PM   #34
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Mulligan, you've just got to try to live long enough to get into the "winner" group. Geezers cost Medicare a lot. If you die young, you "lock in your losses". So, remember to do your jumping jacks everyday.
NW, my dad has definitely established the blueprint to be a winner..I think his only hobby now is body replacement surgeries. He has the old school plan of Medicare with union insurance benefits as the supplement. The only bills he has ever paid for his hip, knees, and shoulder replacements is the gas it takes back and forth to get there. And when I drive it's totally free! He is paying for all the years of hard labor bless his heart, but still it wouldn't take a math genius to determine he has consumed more Medicare dollars than he paid in the past 40 years....
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:30 PM   #35
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My own late father also cost Medicare plenty, but being a desk worker, he did not require any bone or joint work. I am not sure, but the bill probably added up to more than $500K. Inflated dollars from the hospitals, most likely, but the cost to Medicare was certainly real.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:31 PM   #36
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I believe that hospitals do allow people to pay off the debt in installment with low or no interest. For very serious life threatening illnesses or injuries, a $6K cost is quite "affordable", compared to what it was before. So, our young man or woman will have to drive the old car for a few more years and eat out less, but he/she stays alive. And that's more important.

My state has a program to help indigenous people with healthcare. It may be a form of Medicaid, I think, and my friend has a nephew who was saved from a serious cancer with this program.

All the above existed prior to ACA, by the way.
And the resulting debt to pay off should be way lower than if they had no insurance.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:37 PM   #37
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I'm 55 and making the choice between Cadillac COBRA plan with a $425 premium but almost no out of pocket costs and a bronze $2000/$6500 plan that will cost $166 after a $100 subsidy. I live in MA so have been required/guaranteed insurance irrespective of pre existing conditions for a while. As an early retiree the current situation despite the terrible implementation and all the complexities is an improvement. It could be a lot better, but I'll thank heaven for small mercies
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:43 PM   #38
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Mulligan, that rate is low enough that I'd be worried that there is some major catch in the fine print.

There are an awful lot of policies out there that don't actually work as insurance once the person gets sick.

Do you mind me asking what state you are in?


Quote:
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PB, is smelling porky, so I will word this in a way to keep my streak of never causing a thread to close. BTW, I am not against ACA, just commenting it has a negative effect on me, just like it has a positive effect on someone who has been denied coverage and needs it. My rate for a $5500 deductible no copay after deductible this year is $88 a month for a 49 year old. If I were to buy it in January it would be about $290 for a $6300 deductible. I got the one year extension loophole, so I do not have to pay that until December of next year. The reasons mine are going up are obviously because the insurance pool has changed. Being underwritten, I was in a healthy "individual group". In addition, I had no maternity coverage, drug dependence coverage, or mental health coverage. Now, I have to pay for those too.
Fours years ago, when I got my policy, I didn't really know why everyone complained about insurance costs because I thought $73 a month was nothing. I just filled out an application and they gave me the price. Throw in the HSA deduction, and my net insurance costs were actually less than zero. This forum let me understand the outrageous costs some were paying and why. I am sure I wasn't the only clueless person who has always been healthy and didn't realize the enormous costs others pay and why. That is probably the reason the backlash is occurring from some segments, is they don't understand how they were protected from the costs until now.
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:33 PM   #39
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Mulligan, that rate is low enough that I'd be worried that there is some major catch in the fine print. There are an awful lot of policies out there that don't actually work as insurance once the person gets sick. Do you mind me asking what state you are in?
Hamlet it is Missouri. Originally it was Anthem Blue Cross ( I switched to Coventry a couple months ago as they guaranteed coverage through 2014, while Anthem at the time hadn't clarified whether they would). It is a legitimate full blown policy, originally had 7 million dollar max limit, which did not concern me. I guess the underwriting was the key as all the major networks were included. I have read these HD low cost plans were very profitable for them. I guess the strategy was charge a small amount and expect no one to make a claim. It worked on me. The only claim I ever made was this year when I went for my "free annual visit". Figured since I paid for it, I might as well go. Coincidently my biggest premium jump ($10) for the four years was late last year right before the free visit was included into plan. Hmm, $10 times 12 months equals just about the cost of the regular visit paid with cash. Maybe it wasn't so free after all.
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:35 PM   #40
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A higher premium, or the potential of one, is not enough to conclude one is worse off under the ACA , because this possibility always existed in the individual insurance marketplace. Prior to 2010 health insurance policies were subject to recission and underwriting, so at any time each of us could find ourselves without coverage or facing a steep price increase. There was never any assurance that the low price someone had would continue into the future.

We all now enjoy the benefit of guaranteed access, and while I would not venture to assign a dollar value to that, it is safe to assume that our premiums will rise in a very predictable way, limited to age, geographic location and overall healthcare inflation, but not any other personal factor.

In 2012 the average premium for private group coverage was $5615. That's a good baseline, as it covers over 85% of the private insurance market. A policy with a rate far below that enjoys an advantage no one else has. That advantage will go away for some, and it is a loss, but it puts them back onto a level playing field.
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