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Old 10-04-2011, 12:45 PM   #41
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It's been 2.5 weeks since I started. I've been spending the last 2 months scraping/painting the exterior of my 2 story house, most of the time I don't have problems doing this. Yesterday, I removed a big storm window of the 2nd story and moved around 11 bags of heavy sand before spending most of the day on the ladder. By 7pm, I couldn't put the ladder back in the garage, so I chained it up to my tree in the back yard. I ended up using a cane to walk around and I it was uncomfortable getting in/out of a chair. This morning, I can feel there's a small amount of discomfort, but it's much better after sleeping in bed overnight and I don't need the cane. I don't think this is a noticeable change from not taking the supplements, but it's still early.
My days of doing that kind of work around the house are over, in fact I doubt I would have been able to get out of bed the next day, even with the help of a cane. Maybe you need to wait for a period of time without all that work going on to gauge the benefits.
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Old 05-06-2012, 01:21 PM   #42
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Thought I'd update this thread on my results. I finished off the entire bottle of supplements, kept doing my normal work around the house jobs, got zero relief, ended up opening up the 2nd bottle since I bought it. I've been coaching little league since April and experienced pain discomfort after hitting a lot of balls for infield practice one day. I've isolated the pain comes more often from a lot of hip twisting motions. One of the other coaches happens to be a doctor specializing in sports med/administration and told me there's not much I can do other than surgery if the pain gets too bad. Out of frustration, I decided to start doing squats using a Total Gym with 60% (2nd highest to the highest settings) of my body weight. I usually do 50-100 reps until my thighs feel stressed. I also do leg extensions using an old Soloflex machine. I found this helps reduce my hip pain and have been keeping it up 2-3 times/week for almost a month. I can actually do a little limited running now.
I'm still hitting balls at practice and pitch batting practice and don't have any hip pain afterwards. My new plan is to keep strengthening the hip/leg area as long as it keeps improving. The doctor coach agrees that strengthening the muscles in the area can help reduce my symptoms.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:53 AM   #43
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One has to use judgement when taking advice from others. Advice from an orthopedic surgeon will have the bias of his profession. They make a good living repairing damaged joints using FDA approved medical devices and prescribing pharmaceuticals. Their malpractice insurance policies demand following guidelines from the FDA and following standard procedures. Supplements and homeopathic solutions are competition to the surgeon and the FDA.

The FDA is operated by former big pharma company executives. There is an incentive to propagate a widespread distrust of natural healing. Not to mention doctors feel they have superior intellect because of the decade of further education they accrued. The Hippocratic oath (do no harm) is nonsense. The reality is after repaying a gigantic student loan, doctors have no financial incentive to teach the populous how to prevent joint damage, cancer, or any disease.

Why supplements not studied and proven?
Double blind studies that are acceptable by the FDA are extremely expensive. ($25,000,000) It is impossible for the vitamin industry to recuperate those costs because the compounds are not patentable, unlike the big pharma business model. So if there is a real curing agent that cannot be patented, there exists no financial incentive to bring it to market. Capitalism at it's worst.

Intuitive joint rebuilding
Joints are make of cartilage. Humans do not typically consume it. Glucosamine and chondroitin are components of cartilage. The human body repairs itself given the nutrients are provided. It takes time. It requires a lot of supplements. The recommended daily allowance suggested by the FDA is "criminally" low. Take 4X. The compounds are intrinsically safe. Alternatively, pharmaceutical pain killers will destroy something else like the liver, kidney, bones, etc.

Loosing weight is crucial, but joints hurt and it's virtually impossible to exercise regularly. Stop eating fast food. Force yourself to eat fresh vegetables and fruit in salads. Weight will pour off. Swim if other exercise is too painful. Lifestyle change is critical. It's not a diet. It's quality of life or suffering.

Obsess on getting and keeping weight down by eating healthy foods. Obsess on an exercising regularly. Obsess on taking whatever supplements tell a story of repair that sees intuitive. Keep searching for truth.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:46 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimsumkid
Thought I'd update this thread on my results. I finished off the entire bottle of supplements, kept doing my normal work around the house jobs, got zero relief, ended up opening up the 2nd bottle since I bought it. I've been coaching little league since April and experienced pain discomfort after hitting a lot of balls for infield practice one day. I've isolated the pain comes more often from a lot of hip twisting motions. One of the other coaches happens to be a doctor specializing in sports med/administration and told me there's not much I can do other than surgery if the pain gets too bad. Out of frustration, I decided to start doing squats using a Total Gym with 60% (2nd highest to the highest settings) of my body weight. I usually do 50-100 reps until my thighs feel stressed. I also do leg extensions using an old Soloflex machine. I found this helps reduce my hip pain and have been keeping it up 2-3 times/week for almost a month. I can actually do a little limited running now.
I'm still hitting balls at practice and pitch batting practice and don't have any hip pain afterwards. My new plan is to keep strengthening the hip/leg area as long as it keeps improving. The doctor coach agrees that strengthening the muscles in the area can help reduce my symptoms.
I truly believe strength training and flexibility exercises are of more benefit than the supplements, though I continue to use them. The key is to stick to the game plan and continue the program. I am no where near the point of surgery, but I don't plan on getting to that point either. Strengthening program in my humble opinion works best with flexibility exercises. After I get done with my flexibility drills for the day, I almost feel like a teenager for a few hours as it really loosens up the joint areas and takes pressure off them. Of course the next day, is a new day, so I have to do it again, or my body acts like it never benefited from it.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:47 AM   #45
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One has to use judgement when taking advice from others. Advice from an orthopedic surgeon will have the bias of his profession. ....
I am skeptical of the medical industry. Well, I'm skeptical period, so I don't exclude them, or the supplement sellers.


Quote:
Why supplements not studied and proven?
Double blind studies that are acceptable by the FDA are extremely expensive. ($25,000,000) It is impossible for the vitamin industry to recuperate those costs because the compounds are not patentable, unlike the big pharma business model. So if there is a real curing agent that cannot be patented, there exists no financial incentive to bring it to market. Capitalism at it's worst.
It is a problem. It would be interesting if some sort of lower level of compliance could be applied to things with a lower level of risk/reward. Maybe a non-profit could sponsor this?

Quote:
Intuitive joint rebuilding
Joints are make of cartilage. Humans do not typically consume it.
So we can cure baldness by eating hair? I don't think it works that way.


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Obsess on getting and keeping weight down by eating healthy foods. Obsess on an exercising regularly. Obsess on taking whatever supplements tell a story of repair that sees intuitive. Keep searching for truth.
Pretty much agree, but supplements can be dangerous. Taking in something concentrated can also lead to too much intake of toxins. I think we've also learned that it isn't necessarily the 'supplement' that improved health, but everything associated with that supplement. Eskimos may get a lot of fish oil and other fats, but they also eat the raw skin, hair (seals), eyes, and organs of their catch. Which one is responsible for what?

Similarly, statins may improve the numbers, but do they improve health? It is being debated.

-ERD50
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:38 PM   #46
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Eskimos may get a lot of fish oil and other fats, but they also eat the raw skin, hair (seals), eyes, and organs of their catch.
And some things, they know not to eat:

HowStuffWorks "Will I die if I eat polar bear liver?"

Quote:
In fact, if you ever have the chance to try polar bear liver, think twice -- it may be the last meal you ever eat.

The native peoples of the Arctic have never shied away from cooking up some polar bear stew, but they've long known to avoid eating the livers of various arctic creatures. Western explorers, however, learned the hard way. As early as 1596, explorers returned to Europe with accounts of horrible illnesses resulting from the consumption of polar bear liver [source: Rodahl and Moore].

Illness severity depended on how much liver the explorers consumed, but symptoms typically included drowsiness, sluggishness, irritability, severe headache, bone pain, blurred vision and vomiting. Perhaps the most horrific symptom they encountered was peeling skin. While milder cases merely involved flaking around the mouth, some accounts reported cases of full-body skin loss. Even the thick skin on the bottoms of a patient's feet could peel away, leaving the underlying flesh bloody and exposed. The worst cases ended in liver damage, hemorrhage, coma and death.

These explorers suffered from acute hypervitaminosis A, a condition resulting from the overconsumption of vitamin A during a short period of time. The polar bear's liver, much like those of arctic seals and huskies, contains extremely high levels of retinol (the form of vitamin A found in members of the animal kingdom).
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:44 PM   #47
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I truly believe strength training and flexibility exercises are of more benefit than the supplements, though I continue to use them. The key is to stick to the game plan and continue the program. I am no where near the point of surgery, but I don't plan on getting to that point either. Strengthening program in my humble opinion works best with flexibility exercises. After I get done with my flexibility drills for the day, I almost feel like a teenager for a few hours as it really loosens up the joint areas and takes pressure off them. Of course the next day, is a new day, so I have to do it again, or my body acts like it never benefited from it.
(emphasis mine)

I couldn't agree more. Seems to me like most people just completely omit stretching and flexibility exercises, but these have really cut back on my joint pain tremendously. (My rheumatologist thought the pain was due to osteoarthritis but apparently it wasn't.) I always stretch before doing my regular weight lifting routine at the gym, and I stretch at home too.

Unfortunately my subjective interpretation of why stretching helps me is not enough to persuade anybody to stretch, IME, but here it is:

Apparently during my normal daily activities I tend to mildly yank the tendons and various tissues associated with my joints, which was not a problem in my youth since everything was so flexible. But once I got to my 50's and 60's, my tissues shortened and became much less flexible than they were in my youth, and this yanking causes minor tearing damage and swelling that makes the pain worse. At least, that is the best that I can describe what seems to be the source of most of my joint pain. I speculate that when I do my stretching exercises, these tissues become longer and are not so easily yanked and damaged.

Stretching lowers my pain without the need for the pharmaceuticals and supplements that I used to have to take, so I do it.
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:24 PM   #48
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ERD50,

Regarding baldness and eating hair. I've not investigated baldness, but it seems likely research has been done that might provide insight. Hair is interesting characteristics. At some locations on the body is grows to a given length and stops; arms, legs, back, lashes brows, etc. But on the head it seems to keep on growing, or converts to a very short hair in the case of baldness. What causes that change? Presuming it is nature and not an exposure to an external environmental factor, the following questions come to mind:
What is hair made of?
What causes hair to slow it's growth pattern, or change it's properties?
Is hair loss genetic?
Has a "baldness" gene been isolated?
What compounds in the body are linked to hair loss?
Is baldness from an excess or lack of a chemical?
Is there a relationship to skin and follicle?
Is there a natural substance that can be consumed or applied topically to promote hair growth on the human head?

If it was important to me, I would dig into it by searching "supplements for baldness". I would read about why a certain substance is proposed to work. If it seems plausible and there seem little health risk I would become a guinea pig. Since baldness is not a health problem, it seems reasonable to accept that it might take many years of research and trials to determine if there is something available that will help.

Good luck!

saz
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